DSI

Has it become more a marketing organization rather than something that holds strict standards? Hotels have joined their membership before they were even open. This casts a lot of doubt on the organization's integrity to me.

offerendum

Hotels were always very different and beside great properties there were always worn houses which were far away even from upscale accomodations. Don´t see a problem if hotels join pre-opening.

MSPeconomist

In fact, if you go back far enough, the luxury properties were very few, with a lot of places that seemed more like two star inns and others that were good restaurants with rooms. In some ways, I miss that style as it provided an interesting and often unique experience, especially during car trips in Europe when one tends not to stay long enough in little villages along the way to need a fancy hotel or lots of services. However, AFAIK the R&C members in places like North America and Asia were always luxurious, albeit in a local style, such as the Inn at Little Washington and renowned top ryokans in Japan (although those that are willing to accept foreign guests).

Pausanias

Relais & Chateaux has this 5C Mantra - Character, Courtesy, Calm, Charm, Cuisine. Luxury is not part of that and I don't believe they have ever claimed to be a partnership of luxury hotels. So standards vary enormously. Of the UK's current list of 29 properties, very few are in the true luxury class yet most have bags of character which can be mean quirkiness and downright old-fashioned in terms of decor and bathroom technology.

I look back through the mists of nostalgia driving through France with my handy white book of R&C hotels - it was as trusty a friend as the Michelin.

No longer I'm afraid but R&C has proved more reliable than Small Luxury Hotels of the World - perhaps because of that contentious word 'luxury.'

ABG

@behuman often posted about Relais&Chateau

DSI

Okay, i didn’t realize it wasn’t a stamp for luxury. But if there are criteria, I guess I would’ve thought the place would need to be open in order to meet those criteria.

francophile

I believe these properties are considered to be part of Virtuoso even before they are open:

https://www.virtuoso.com/hotels/1552...eview-property
https://www.virtuoso.com/hotels/1545...eview-property
https://www.virtuoso.com/suppliers/1...eview-property

MSPeconomist

A long time ago an excellent long-term agent told me that AmEx FHR requires a hotel to be open for about a year before it's considered. Moreover, if changes are sufficiently extensive (such as switching ownership/affiliation after renovations), it is dropped and can't be reconsidered until it's been open under the new structure for a while, probably meaning a year again. I don't know whether these standards are still followed.

Nizar

Virtuoso doesn't stand for luxury though does it ?

Any hotel can be part of it as long as they pay the appropriate fees and agree on providing the amenities given to any Virtuoso booking ?

I could be mistaken though.

Or is there a rigorous selection criteria for hotels wanting to be considered etc ?

nrunning24

There is a review process to become a Virtuoso hotel. You can't just pay the fee and opt-in.

Nizar

How does the review process work if the hotel is not yet open ?

instyleprincess

Which hotel are you referring to? Just curious

erik123

I'm a bit late to the party but this may be of interest and I haven't seen it mentioned before.
https://www.relaischateaux.com/us/p/visainfinite-us

jbb

My understanding of the R&C brand has been that it is supposed to be luxury, but my impression is changing after my own experiences and from reading how others perceive it as something different. Wikipedia describes it as: "an association of individually owned and operated luxury hotels and restaurants". The R&C website doesn't seem to use the word "luxury", but they do use words like "landmark", "boutique" and "refined hospitality". Here's a typical quote from their website: "Established in 1954, Relais & Châteaux is an association of more than 580 landmark hotels and restaurants operated by independent innkeepers, chefs, and owners who share a passion for their businesses and a desire for authenticity in their relationships with their clientele."

I've stayed at 3 R&C's: Saint James in Paris, The Surrey in New York City and Ceylon Tea Trails in Sri Lanka.

The Saint James was good all round: service, hard product, and dining, plus the building in the 16th arr. had some wow factor and a strong sense of place. I thought the Saint James was a very good value luxury option, cheaper than the more prominent and well-known full luxury hotels in Paris, but still with a lovely experiential hotel product.

The Surrey was a disappointment. Service was mostly disinterested to down-right bad, the room was showing wear and tear and lacked attention to detail - it did not meet my expectations for luxury. The only saving grace was the quality of the food at dining.

Ceylon Tea Trails had obliging service and excellent food, but the hard product was a disaster. We had brown water coming out of the tub and the rooms were "rustic", and not in a good way, with furnishings less antique and more flea market.

offerendum

The Definition of the word luxury-hotels is very different from the general definition were a Hilton or Sheraton, many 4 star and every 5 star are luxury. R&C talks about "Luxury Hotels" on its German Website, not on the English one.
With R&C you must always consider you deal with individual properties. Pausanias described it very well. As the brand focus on older buildings as the name says it´s not surprising some are not the most modern properties, I stayed at some R&C properties and the majority was nice. While I never choosed a Hotel because it is R&C is always happened "by chance". Nevertheless I can confirm that as far as I remember all of them had character and sense for place. This year I stayed at Castello di Guarene and Villa Crespi. You mustn´t like both hotels and they are not perfect, but they have character.
I think many do the failure to compare brands with associations. While I can expect some standards at an Aman or Four Seasons because of the central management, R&C or SLH (little different with many LHW) is a composite of individual and often independent (or small groups) hotels mainly for marketing reasons. Of course there are requirements to get a member (guess Grand Hyatt New York or Estrel Berlin wouldn´t qualify) but there is no central managent. It´s part of the concept that the properties are different. Also in my eyes it´s neither meaningful nor appropriate to compare one property with the other or to draw conclusions from one stay at a property for another hotel. Nevertheless it makes sense to search the directory if you are looking for a special kind of hotel.

Conclusion: I can´t see that much change. It was never a composite of high end luxury hotels, it was always a composition of individual hotels with character, sense for place etc. which includes some high end properties.