Smiley90

Given that with Canadian borders closed the pool of high-paying clientele to chose from is vastly smaller, it doesn't really surprise me though. I assume once the borders are back open those rates go away, too.

tdiddy23

Got back from tweedsmuir this weekend, a brief summary. Can see some photos and more details here

Setting: in the eastern portion of bella coola valley, with coast mountains on one side and tall granite walls on the other, very impressive.
Cabins: 2 levels with extra beds, large glass windows with nice views, decorated with first nation artwork, simple but classic. Bed was comfortable- could have been bigger, gas fireplace quite nice, washrooms modern
Service: Some room for improvement, more presence from coordinators/managers, coffee tea delivered to room, afternoon snacks beyond chocolate bars would have been my expectation
Food: Solid meals, friendly wait staff, good wine selection. About what i expected, on par with some other resorts (like Sonora), but not at the level of Fogo Island Inn or a top class restaurant in the city.
Bears: Drifting down the rivers looking for bears fishing. Beautiful environment and views. We saw a number of bears, not as many and didn't feel as much of a sure thing as Khutz lodge, but potential to see some great fishing and really close encounters. The nature walks for active BCers were disappointing but they reassigned us to more drifting which i really appreciated. There are other groups on the river but not many, also lots of locals at the public bear viewing station just off the road.
Value: Local discount this year which was generous and fair i felt. Otherwise looking at ~1250pp per night. Less than Churchill wild, but very steep especially with ground transportation only, I think it could be a bit more polished at these rates, but its a really in demand activity so can't blame them. Hard to really judge what would have been different in a non-COVID year to be fair. Overall though between the two i've visited Khutz lodge provides better value.

Edit: The boats only fit 6 and all the seats are good so i don't think you need to upgrade to private experience unless an avid photographer who wants to guarantee unimpeded access in all directions. If it gives you more flexibility about your activities however it may be worth it, best to check with them. I used a 100-400 lens, i wouldn't want to go much heavier as it would be mostly handheld on the boat, from the viewing stations a prime would be nice though.

SanDiego1K

Our booking has been slid to next June. I would never have thought our borders would remain closed for so long. I'm now wondering whether next June will even be possible. I hope so.

tdiddy23

Can't imagine next June still having borders closed, who knows these days though but i would count on coming. Also talked to another guest who'd been to Khutz a few times at Tweedsmuir, I think June>> July bears wise there if that's any consolation for your delayed trip!

ridefar

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the borders closed until roughly then (speaking as a Canadian). Not that I am happy about that. There is, seemingly, zero appetite amongst Canadians for opening the border; the lobbying efforts of the airlines have (surprisingly) had zero impact on government policy, and there has been zero public discussion of mitigating measures (such as deploying screening at airports or other means of testing arrivals that might reduce or eliminate the 14 day quarantine). I would add that, with the exception of very high end properties, this all hasn't been an unmitigated disaster for tourism either. I find this very surprising, but Banff had 85% of the regular visitor traffic this year. So surprising I doubt it, but that was the press release from the townsite. They didn't comment on revenue associated with that traffic, but it is certainly not so disastrous that governments are going to change border access in the need to save hundreds of thousands of jobs (unless other areas of Canada are drastically different). We are not Italy/Greece/Spain in this respect.

kevincure

Depends where. The entire Churchill bear season is dead as a doornail. There is effectively zero tourism in the territories this year, domestic or otherwise, because of restrictions. Anywhere reliant on cruise traffic is dead. Both Victoria (on Canada Day!) and Quebec City in August were very quiet, and Toronto has certainly not had much domestic tourism. There has been big domestic demand for nature destinations (Muskokas, Gaspe, Banff) but even there you see big hotel discounts that frankly never would happen in summer otherwise.

It drives me crazy that the government isn't just putting into place border tests in lieu on quarantine, as in Germany (among many other places). It's not like Canada is New Zealand - the daily Covid rates here are something like 60% of the US right now, and lower than, e.g., much of the Caribbean. If you passed a test on arrival, you are less likely to have Covid than the average Canadian on the street. I should mention that there is a lot of debate about this at high levels - I am involved in policy discussions basically at the top (though I am external to government) and even I have no idea what the government hold-up is here. There are certainly politics involved, that's for sure.

ridefar

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I don't really get why there is no discussion (or, based on your comment, actual push for) of how to implement test on arrival as an alternative to quarantine.

Couple other data points. I was speaking to somebody in tourism in Banff. As I noted above, visitor traffic is about 85% of normal, but apparently spending was about 50% of normal, that is a pretty significant drop.

Final note: we have done/are doing 3 trips recently, and every property we have visited domestically (or will visit) for 3 months has been totally sold out: Waterton, Jasper, and Tofino. And none of those are at discounted rates. So I think your observations, while true, need some context. Toronto doesn't have any domestic tourism because restaurants and bars haven't been open for dine in for 3 of the last 6 months. And Churchill isn't big enough to move any needle.

So my question for you: is the absence of test on arrival a strategy to make sure Canadians spend their money at home rather than abroad? Because at this point I seriously wonder if it wouldn't cost more lost revenue (we certainly would have travelled abroad if it wasn't for the 2 week quarantine on arrival back home) that it would gain. Meaning we wouldn't see much foreign tourism anyway? Who knows, I am just speculating because I honestly don't get what the logic might be to not do it like Germany.

kevincure

I think it's a bit more about the insularity and risk aversion of Canadian policymaking. No one wants the blame if cases can be sourced to a foreign traveler/student/whatever. The restrictions are far more severe than most realize, partly because the Trudeau government is very good at media relations: the majority of provinces/territories are not open even to domestic travel with no plans to change pre-vaccine, foreign tourism is completely banned, and foreigner visas are much more restricted than most Western countries (~40% of new foreign students at my university still don't have a study permit, with no word on when this will be resolved, so it is not at all the case that the "universities are open"). In any case, it is both frustrating, and there are good people at high levels pushing the government for changes on this.

On some personal data points: went to the Gaspesie, Quebec City, Tofino, Victoria, and the Bruce Peninsula since July 1. Gaspe and the Bruce were booked pretty solid, although the number of rooms/campsites available was smaller than a normal season. Tofino - booked the Wick on a weekend with a few days notice, no problem getting into whatever restaurant either, so it certainly didn't feel like a summer weekend level of tourism. Victoria and Quebec City were both dead compared to normal summer - paid less than 1/2 normal high season rates and hotels were very quiet. I 100% believe you on places like Jasper and Waterton - the outdoors is all we are allowed to do!

I imagine high-end lodges like Churchill Wild, the bear camps, the northern fishing lodges, etc. which must be 90% foreign travel are getting creamed (or, in many cases, just closed for the year).

SanDiego1K

I am deeply appreciative of your recommendation of Khutzeymateen. I would never have known about it without your post. We were booked to go in 2020, then 2021, and finally came in 2022. It is a very special experience. There are only 10 guests in the lodge at a time. Roughly half the guests are Canadian with the other half from the US, Australia, and elsewhere. We had a 15 minute flight on a float plane from Prince Rupert. The day's schedule is breakfast, 3 hour boat tour, lunch, another 3 hour boat tour, dinner. The lodge has kayaks and paddle boards for those who want something more to do. Food is of a good standard. I was concerned about the rooms but they are fine. They are simple, not in the least luxurious, without private bathrooms, but we have found several times that the most extraordinary wildlife experiences come with simple housing.

The owner does no advertising as he is able to fill the 10 spots available by word of mouth or articles that have appeared in major publications. His is the only lodge in the Khutzy. There are only 5 permits for boats to be in the Khutzeymateen Grizzly Bear Sanctuary. 2 are held by the owner of Khutzy Lodge. Thus, almost no other people are out in search of grizzlies. The lodge owner uses his second permit to take out the occasional film crew from Disney or Netflix. Look at episode 8 of Wild Babies on Netflix. It was filmed in 2021.

This is really an exceptional experience.

https://www.grizzlytour.com/

tdiddy23

Glad to hear you finally made it! Also good to know khutz landed on their feet post travel restirctions. Your report makes me want to go back

SanDiego1K

I read about Klahoose Wilderness Resort in this month's issue of Travel & Leisure. It looks to be several hours north of Vancouver on First Nation land. It opened this year. Should anyone stay, I'd love to know your reaction. I'm now following it on iG: https://www.instagram.com/klahoosewildernessresort/

KatW

Thanks for posting about this. Looks great, could be an option for me in ‘23. I’m booked up for this year.

ridefar

A very quick review on Nimmo Bay, from which we just returned after a 1 week stay.

It was, quite simply, the best service experience I have ever had, at any hotel, anywhere. A (very) close second would be Amankora. But even Amankora was clearly second. That they manage to accomplish this in Canada, a land almost completely devoid of luxury properties, left me astounded. We went for a week, never once got bored, and threw ourselves at their mercy in terms of activities. Every day was fun, "just right" in terms of effort, offered variety, and impeccable anticipatory service.

Food was very good. In Canada, the only hotel equivalent would be Fogo Island Inn. And wine/wine pairings were excellent, despite featuring BC wines prominently (no easy task).

Hard product was somewhere between really good (the cabins) and out of this world (the floating private hot tub). Even things like the boats were first rate (the hydrofoil catamaran used for sea safaris is really just ridiculous).

Overall this has to be one of the more expensive offerings in Canada at the moment. And I was astonished that it was still good value. We will go back (and have already booked our return). Because it is so small (9 cabins) I am reluctant to gush because I don't want to compete for space with any of you (kidding. sort of. it is already nearly 100% booked for next year anyway.) But it really is that good, and it really did far exceed my expectations. I would be *very* confident that Nimmo sets the bar for luxury wilderness experiences in BC.

Happy to answer any questions others might have.

KatW

Lucious post, ridefar, thank you. I long for a respite there, in fact had one booked but had to cancel. would you comment as to what the experience might be for an older, somewhat mobility impaired guest? No wheelchair or walker but occasional cane, wonky knees, not able to walk long distances or manage serious grade changes.

tdiddy23

apparently they have had guests into their 90s. I think the trickiest mobility issues would be the floating boardwalk between cabin and dining area, at low tide it is a bit of a grade (they had some nonslip material on it), and getting out of the grumman goose. I have no doubt in their ability to help guests in either case. Boat transitions did not seem problematic and although you may skip some of the activities (tree canopy, SUP, heli hiking etc) there would still be loads to do i would think. The Rainforest waterfall shower by the hotbtub although tempting would be sketchy as well

Just thinking about this place makes me want to go back