chinmoylad

EDITED: Misunderstanding

RichardInSF

Remember that this is the luxury hotel forum so this thread should limit itself to places like the Ritz-Carlton and Luxury collection hotels. Any more general discussion of Marriott and Starwood should be in the forums for those brands.

Also, please avoid personal attacks.

Thanks,
RichardInSF, moderator, luxury hotels and travel

bhrubin

Just to be clear, the luxury brands include:

MARRIOTT:
Ritz Carlton Reserve
Ritz Carlton
Bulgari
Edition
JW Marriott

STARWOOD:
St Regis
Luxury Collection
W

Discussing JW Marriott, W, and Edition hotels seems perfectly appropriate insofar as this specific thread is concerned—with them obviously being part of the combined Marriot/Starwood luxury universe—but those brands are less commonly accepted as luxury by the general consensus in this Forum. Therein lies the conundrum.

That being said, it’s not like there is broad consensus on this Forum that accepts Luxury Collection properties (let alone many Ritz Carlton and even some St. Regis hotels) in the same vein as Aman, Peninsula, MO, and Four Seasons, let alone many independent and smaller boutique luxury chain properties.There always has been disagreement on those. Heck, there is just as much disagreement about some MO and PH properties.

Some people are going to come to this thread without recognition that it is part of the Luxury Hotel Forum that comes with a higher standard for luxury to which they may be unaccustomed. Those typical Marriott and Starwood denizens are likely going to need to be reminded that this is the Luxury Hotels Forum. Those of us who frequent this Luxury Hotels Forum are likely going to have to be a bit more patient with those who think of JW Marriott, W, and addition as similar or comparable luxury to the more luxurious brands more commonly discussed herein.

RichardInSF

I would not include either JW Marriott or W in the luxury brand category for the purpose of this forum, with the possibility of there being a very few individual exceptions (most likely in east Asia). So I hope that those will be discussed in the appropriate hotel alliance forum going forward. I am not familiar enough with Edition to decide.

RichardInSF, moderator, luxury hotels and travel

DavidO

All W Hotels get Starwood Luxury Privileges amenities, and some are Virtuoso.

I believe that all Edition hotels are Virtuoso members.

Totally agree about JW Marriott, although it is part of what Marriott calls "Marriott Luxury Brands."

bhrubin

I personally agree that JW Marriott, W, and Edition are usually not in the same league as most of the other luxury brands and luxury properties so often discussed in this Forum. But as I point out below, we often have threads in this Forum that still push the envelope on luxury. For discussions in other threads on this Forum, I absolutely would agree with your assessment and would not argue any posts on those being moved to the appropriate Starwood or Marriott Forum threads. But for this particular thread, I believe it still appropriate to include them in the discussion. That being said, I won’t cry if you and your fellow mods disagree!

After all, there are Luxury Collection and Ritz Carlton properties that aren’t always so luxury, and some Ws and Editions and perhaps JWs that truly are luxurious. As with so many things, it’s in the eye of the beholder. If the Luxury Forum can include a question about the Red Mountain Resort or the Shinola Detroit or the Carolina Inn or even so many Hawaii “luxury resorts” that some will question (thinking of you, @KatW!), I don’t see why we can’t include perspectives in this one thread on the overall Marriott family of (so-called) luxury brands.

MikeFromTokyo

Arguably luxury W:

Barcelona
Koh Samui
Seminyak
Taipei
(others such as South Beach can be “luxury” at suite level)

JW Marriott in Venice is arguably “luxury” although not at the same level as the top local competition.
Phu Quoc, Vietnam seems rather impressive for a JW Marriott.
JW Marriott Phuket is a solid option for families. Arguably “luxury” at suite level, although not comparable to top local competition, nor trying to be such. Far better than your average JW Marriott/Marriott business hotel.

The vast majority of W, JW Marriott etc... are far from what I consider luxury, however. I laughed when I saw W Union Square and InterContinental Barclay as Virtuoso member properties. Acceptable four star, yes, luxury, no. And many W would be even less so.

It really is better to look at individual properties. Although I think we can all agree on the general positioning of these brands within the market spectrum, luxury varies greatly based on location and especially depends on owners. These brands supposedly all have minimum standards for physical plant, services, amenities, and F&B; however, owners can choose to exceed those brand standards.

bhrubin

I generally agree with your comments. Great minds...

I’d add a few W properties that can compete with other luxury properties on experience, even if we may quibble over the details:

Bogota
Hong Kong
Maldives
Verbier
Guangzhou

Obviously YMMV.

MikeFromTokyo

Goa also looks interesting. I’m not convinced that any of the options there are the height of luxury, including the Park Hyatt and Taj properties, but the W looks like it could be a fun place to stay.

I’m less familiar with the European and South American properties, but in Asia it is viewed as a high end, “lifestyle” brand as opposed to a business hotel brand. I have friends who like the Bangkok property, but I’m much too set in my ways to depart from my usual haunts