broadwayboy

Thank you for the Ispahan Croissant picture - brings back lovely memories. I'll be a happier man if I have that for breakfast each morning.

scented

BENLEE

Can someone comment about the relative merits and weakness of Ritz Carlton Kyoto vs Four Seasons Kyoto vs Suiran Kyoto? The Ritz appears to have the best location ( and I am booked there ) but they have an almost non-responsive concierge. The Four Seasons is newer and look to have better hardware while the Suiran looks very tranquil. I wonder if I will be better off at the other two properties.

gengar

I haven't stayed at the RC or Suiran, but stayed at the FS Kyoto last month. All e-mails to concierge were responded to within 24 hours and they booked all the restaurants I requested - although it should be noted that I didn't ask for any of the typical hard-to-get spots, as to be frank I've never had a good experience at any of the famed / 3* / etc. places in Kyoto. As is typical with Japanese hotels, they do require a signed CC authorization form for restaurant reservations (fortunately, unlike MO Tokyo's inept concierge, they do not demand scans of the front/back of a CC). Detailed directions to and storefront images of all restaurants they reserved were waiting in my room on arrival.

While I'm posting, might as well give a few brief details for review purposes. I contacted the hotel directly for booking as FHR had not loaded 2018 properties yet. They basically gave me an Executive Suite at approximately the rate for a Premier Room and also included breakfast at Brasserie. They further upgraded me to a 1BR residential suite on arrival. A bottle of champagne was also waiting in the room. Granted 3pm checkout request (late checkout was not pre-arranged with the booking). All of this may be due to the slow season, as the property seemed very quiet during my stay - I saw maybe a dozen other guests during my entire time there.

Room was good. I liked the furniture and finishings - it's a new hotel, so obviously everything is in top shape. Huge closet area, although it is a walk-through type in front of the bathroom. Large combined shower/tub area. The residential version of the 1BR also has a combo washer/dryer in-unit. Nitpicking a bit, but the rooms are rather narrow and full of furniture so the suite didn't feel that spacious; more of a cozy vibe. For the price I paid, no problem - but I don't know how I'd feel if I were paying the 150,000¥++/night regular rate. Housekeeping was good and consistent; I also liked that 6 bottles of water (or maybe 8, can't remember) were provided and restocked at both main service and turndown.

The hotel grounds are stunning. The pond garden is gorgeous and during warmer weather, the garden terrace would have been a fantastic place to spend time but it was bit cold during my stay. I also greatly enjoyed Shakusui-tei, an old tea house across the lake that serves champagne and sake from 5-9pm; we even got a visit from a geiko to play drinking games.

I want to try Suiran at some point, but would certainly look to stay at FS Kyoto in the future. Also, it's not that poorly located; it's an easy, 10-minute downhill walk to Shichijo station. Since I'm lazy, I'd typically walk downhill to Shichijo when leaving the hotel and taxi on the way back. The hotel is also right next to the Kyoto National Museum.

EDIT TO ADD: If you plan on taking taxis from the hotel, I recommend pre-booking taxis via the concierge if you're on a schedule - otherwise, expect at least a 5-10min wait for taxis.

bhrubin

Thanks to @gengar for that overview of the FS Kyoto!

We will be spending 5 nights at Suiran and 2 nights at the RC Kyoto in May 2018. We almost certainly will visit the FS Kyoto at some point during our weeklong stay, as well. So I will be able to offer my typical comparison'contrast after we return--if you can wait!

I can say thus far the Suiran concierge has been spectacular, answering my emails usually within a day or two and always addressing the specifics I needed. Well before the official booking window my reservations at 3* Kitcho and a few other Michelin restaurants were confirmed. We still are awaiting word on 3* Kichisen in Kyoto and 3* Wa Yamamura in Nara when those reservation windows open. I'd give Suiran concierge so far a 10/10.

I can say the RC concierge started horribly and has become much better--after my complaint email to the GM in Nov 2017. After my complaint, the Director of Rooms allegedy took over my details and confirmed our 3* Nakamura reservation well before the normal window by way of apology for the past misses. I've since emailed the concierge for various items and received replies in a day or so each time. The responses for the RC Kyoto concierge team are more generic and rote, with cut and paste responses in some cases, unlike those from Suiran. I'd give the RC Kyoto so far a 7/10...but improving!

My impression thus far always has been that Suiran is more of a hybrid between Western hotel and Japanese ryokan, while the RC Kyoto and FS Kyoto are Western hotels with Japanese touches. Suiran is also a much more boutique experience with only 39 total rooms, only 4 of which are considered suites.

Our stays should tell the tale of whether or not that impression is true.

Suiran's location is to the far west of Kyoto, in a much less touristed area but adjacent to the daytime touristy Arashiyama area with the bamboo forest, monkey park, and other temples. Suiran and the tranquil Arashiyama are a good 30 min drive away to the eastern Kyoto temples/restaurants closest to the RC and FS. We therefore are focusing our temple visits and sightseeing, accordingly.

BENLEE

Thank you @gengar and @bhrubin for your insights. My trip is in early March. Yup, the RC Kyoto concierge is quite bad. I send them email they never replied after 4 days, until I have got to get my agent to email them. And they claimed their email system is problem. And worse, this repeat twice! Really should have done better. And my request aren't complicated. Basically asking about tour and to book their own hotel's restaurant. Anyway, I decided to stick with RC Kyoto. Let's see how it goes.

bhrubin

Well, our dinner reservation requests have come through in spades for our coming trip to Japan!

I’d already shared in the Tokyo thread that the Prince Gallery Tokyo Kioicho has booked us for Sushi Yoshitake (3*), Sushi Sawada (2*), and Narisawa (2*).

The Suiran Kyoto has booked us for Kitcho (3*), Wayamamura lunch in Nara (3*), and Kichisen (3*), and the RC Kyoto has booked us for Gion Sasaki lunch (2*) and Nakamura (3*). The StR Osaka has booked us for Aragawa (2*) and Hajime (3*).

If if anyone has feedback on whether we are doing too much kaiseki, I’d be open to any suggestions or other recommendations via PM.

One thing is certain: all of those hotels have top drawer concierge teams. I know the RC Kyoto started off rough, but it righted the ship and has come through in a big way with both our reservations and tour planning. The Suiran Kyoto, Prince Gallery Tokyo, and StR Osaka concierge teams have been almost flawless, really, getting every reservation we wanted and really going overboard in helping with our tour planning right from the start.

HKTraveler

Tried to PM you about restaurants, let me know if you haven't received it. Definitely way too many kaiseki for me. Kaiseki is all about seasonal products and you will have many of the ingredients repeating over the various meals

Aventine

And the same Kyoto ryori style.

bhrubin

BENLEE

Just finished a stay at RC Kyoto. Beautiful hotel. Fabulous room, with every amenity one can thought. But F&B is poor. I am not impressed by their overtly stylistic Kyo-Kaiseiki. Overtly pretentious and not tasty. Breakfast is mundane. Concierge take ages to respond but this is already a well known problem. Rest of the staff have good service, in particular housekeeping. Location excellent. Next time, I will try the FS.

Aventine

The only saving grace are the delicious Pierre Herme croissants at breakfast!

BESVISOR

Glad it was easy for you! It's really a hit or miss with response speed. For both RC and FS. I have booked clients at both properties and received completely contradicting response speed, variously.

Aside from the pre-arrival response speed (the inconsistency of it), generally, service at both are good once on site.

david22

So I'm scoping out a trip for mid April 2019 between the cherry blossom peak and golden week and wondering about the Four Seasons Kyoto vs. RC Kyoto. Is there anyone who has stayed at both who wants to opine on the tradeoffs between the two? [Possible slow concierge @ RC shows up in this thread a bit :-) ]

FWIW, I've stayed at RC Kyoto in late 2015 (before the FS opened) in a "Luxury river view" room. I thought the RC Kyoto hotel hard product was great: the decor was dramatic in kind of a showy "feast for the senses" way but not gaudy. Also, wow, those pastries. I'd love to stay there again but they haven't posted their rates for the week I want to travel. They're currently blocked out from late March to April 22nd as "high season rates not available yet". I booked a room at the FS for now. It looks like the design aesthetic of the FS is a bit more "western luxury" in the bathrooms, etc. (lots of marble vs. wood)? It also looks like the RC tends to charge more than the FS too if you look at comparable room categories.

bhrubin