pricesquire

OliverB, great information - thank you.

robyng

We stayed at what used to be the Intercontinental Hotel in east Jerusalem (it's now called the Seven Arches - it was pretty much 4 star when we stayed there and looks like 3 star today). Didn't have any issues with east Jerusalem as opposed to any other part of Jerusalem/Israel. But we traveled during a fairly quiet period.

On my part - I'm thinking about another trip in the future. But - if I think there's trouble at any particular time (personal assessment) - I don't think I'd feel more or less safe in any particular part of Jerusalem - and just wouldn't want to visit.

There's one issue no one has discussed that might be relevant. For years - indeed decades - various hotels - especially in Jerusalem - especially the King David - have catered to Jewish Federation trips from the US (that was how we wound up in east Jerusalem at the IC - all the hotels like the King David were 100% filled with groups). These are basically trips that are subsidized - with the expectation that those who go on them will give X/Y/Z to the Federations that sponsor/subsidize them. Part of Federation contributions go to various organizations in Israel - so I suspect there's some degree of subsidy involved on the Israeli end as well.

Regardless of what one thinks about this kind of group travel (or any kind of group travel) - it's not calculated to bring out the best in terms of service or anything else from a hotel. Because of the relatively captive nature of the audience. And - to be frank - the nature of some of the people in the audience. People like my parents are typical. They come across as trying to help all those "poor Israelis" - when the fact of the matter is that many people in Israel are very well educated and far from poor. And - when they went on a Federation trip - they sure didn't expect to tip anyone (although Israel is not - like Japan - a non-tipping country). IOW - they were both condescending and cheap.

I guess one reason one might get better service from places that are Arab-run is that they don't have a built-in captive audience of Federation groups and other Jewish tourists. IOW - they have to try harder. Also - and this is just a guess - their employees might be long term service employees who've lived in that area for a long time - while some of the employees elsewhere might be recent immigrants from countries without any great tradition of service (maybe Russia and similar?).

FWIW - I don't think Israel is a place you go to because it has the best luxury hotels in the world (the best stay of our trip - which was in 1981 - 6 months before President Sadat was assassinated - was on a kibbutz in northern Israel - definitely not a luxury experience!). You go there for all manner of other reasons - one of which is to see what all the fuss is about Jerusalem (I'm Jewish - my husband is Christian - we had a Muslim guide in Jerusalem - so we saw every religious site important to those religions during our stay in Jerusalem - after you explore all the sites - you understand the fuss).

I also disagree about the people in Israel. I have both friends and family in Israel - and find all of them very nice (although I see them more in the US than in Israel). I also have US friends from Israel - like my dentist whose family is from Ramallah. One of those in Israel is US born - but now a private guide. Will be glad to supply his name by DM if anyone is interested. However I will say that the people there drive like lunatics (doesn't make them unique) - we drove from one end of the country to the other - and also drove all through the west bank (not necessarily advisable today).

Finally - we have ruled out Israel right now. Our friends/family there in various parts of the country are hopping into and out of bomb shelters on a pretty regular basis. My husband's mobility is somewhat limited - and it's not something we want to deal with (younger people with no mobility issues shouldn't have a problem but might care to go there in less troubled times). Robyn

P.S. Note that the site of the IC where we stayed was always pretty much a no-no for a lot of people. Because it was thought to be built on an ancient burial ground - and some people thought its location was sacrilegious. Still - it was one of the few places with available rooms during our trip - so we booked it.

OliverB

Robyn,

It's just a different culture. I don't mean to sound un-pc but Israelis are just not warm, friendly, or service oriented. I say this from my experience as a Jewish person having visited Israel several times. That's not to say that there are no such thing as nice or warm Israelis. I'm generalizing of course, but it's not a very neighborly or affable country on the whole. We met some very nice people in Israel, but that just wan't the common air. Arab culture on the other hand, is far more welcoming and convivial. Our ultra zionist tour guide who leaned pretty right wing with his social values (and a wonderful person despite our differeing perspectives) openly admitted this much. The difference is night and day. Cross the border into Jordan or anywhere else and you will find a much warmer atmosphere. We drove to the village of Ein Hemed one afternoon, which is just outside of Jerusalem. We ate lunch at a small Arabic restaurant that was in the garden court of a family home. The food was nothing special and we felt it wasn't worth the excursion (we could have ate better with our time) but we made friends with an Arabic family who invited us to their table to join them for lunch. We met and played with their children, shared their food. The family barely spoke any English but we somehow managaed to communicate and joke around. This was something I never experienced in any other part of Israel, and we ate several meals on kibutzes. We also ate at very high end restaurants like Catit (and countless others) in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and received wonderful service, but the warmth and friendliness isn't there. On the whole, Israelis rate pretty poorly in the service industry. You'll find this even in the small boutique hotels which definitely do not cater to Jewish tour groups. As for the tour groups, they aren't government subsidized as far as I know; they're sponsored entirely by wealthy Jewish philanthropists like the Bronfman family. See wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_Israel

Pierre&Cédric

Thanks for the information about AC! ^
I can understand your comments Robyng. When we were at the King David there were several French groups, among which one for a Bar Mitzvah with a party of 60 people. For sure service could not be good when they were around. Actually I believe I can say I was ashamed by the behaviour of my fellow citizens and it does not help to feel a 'luxury' atmosphere...

damaxer91

The King David is a dated property with little going for it other than the history

I'd certainly stay at the new Waldorf Astoria or even the David Citadel (I don't like the Mamila Hotel)

Issue with the American Colony is less so safety than location and the rooms can certainly use a refurb

aa213bb

Thanks OliverB and robyng for the thoughts.

I'd add that I speak fairly decent Hebrew; and still, the lack of warmth and hospitality is jarring compared with my experiences in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the Emirates.

I suppose, for many reasons, Israeli culture differs greatly from those of its neighbors.

bhrubin

Any experience with the Ritz Carlton Herzliya just north of Tel Aviv? I currently am slated to stay there in mid-October assuming the situation there settles down. As SPG Plat, my only other option seems to be the Sheraton which doesn't look so good. I've previously stayed at the Hotel Montefiore with my husband a few years back, and it was lovely (if small rooms for 2).

Pierre&Cédric

Hopefully the Norman shall be open by October, I can't wait to read some reviews as it seems to be a good combination of boutique hotel (50 rooms and suites in a nice part of Tel Aviv) and all amenities of usually larger properties (pool / gym / spa / restaurants & bar).

http://www.thenorman.com

mike_la_jolla

I'd describe the Dan Hotel Tel Aviv as a cross between IKEA-chic and Walmart, aged 30-40 years. The lobby reminds me of the post office, but with a cleaning staff that isn't permanently on break. This is the GOOD hotel in Tel Aviv and leagues above the David Tel Aviv InterContinental, a hotel that takes incompetence and hostility seriously.

The trick with Tel Aviv is to start with low expectations. Now lower them. Do that yet again and go ....

OliverB

I've never stayed at The Dan but I love their mid century lobby and would probably give them a shot on return trip, if that ever comes to pass. I wouldn't expect much in the way of anything and it's certainly not a luxury property. If you're not concerned with being ocean front, then I remember seeing a really beautiful looking (from exterior) boutique hotel not far from Neve Tzedek if I recall. It was in a very pretty looking rose colored mansion and was hard to miss if passing by. I might look into that as well.

OliverB

Here you go:
http://varsano.co.il

It's got a very pretty courtyard

The one-bedroom villas look lovely:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...ct.html#photos

It's not on the ocean but it's situated in my favorite neighborhood in Tel Aviv and I would probably stay here the next time.


The Rothschild also looks like a good boutique option to explore in the center of the city; very conveniently located:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...ct.html#photos


Whatever you do, avoid the Shalom and Relax. The only good thing that I have to say about that hotel is that their daily Middle Eastern breakfast-brunch spread was exceptionally good, fresh, and homemade, but the accommodations and common areas were horrible.

robyng

Seriously curious. I can understand "incompetence" - but how can a hotel be "hostile"? Robyn

Jasper2009

My experience hasn't been nearly as negative as yours. I have stayed at the Intercontinental Tel Aviv over half a dozen times over the last few years and can't remember a single negative experience. Sure, it's not a true luxury hotel and service can be a little hit and miss, but I thought the hotel was on par with many other city center IC properties.

My biggest pet peeve is that it's overpriced for what it offers, but that applies to many hotels in Israel IMO.

mike_la_jolla

On the David Tel Aviv:

Perhaps the low-light of business travel in my career. The Plaza NY is a close second.

Start here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/20888312-post6.html
More here: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...t.html#REVIEWS

PS -- The TA reviews of this dump are a case study in fake reviews. Notice that every bad review is followed by a glowing review written in the same style.

Pierre&Cédric