Virtuoso - new hotels and non-renewals for 2013
#16
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#17
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Programs: Virtuoso TA, Four Seasons Pref Partner, Rosewood Elite TA, Ritz Carlton STARS TA
Posts: 4,725
Reflects quoting hearsay as fact.... The poster in question lauds LHW Leaders Club frequently, but dumps on Virtuoso. LHW costs hotels way more than Virtuoso/FHR/Signature etc. If a hotelier choses to pay Virtuoso its fees (which has nothing to do with a TA's comm) then so be it. Who is behuman to judge?
#18
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Programs: Marriott LTT, HH Diamond, HY Explorist, Avis Pres, Hertz Pres, National EE, AA Au, UA Ag
Posts: 871
A couple points of comparison:
- There are also 33 Hyatts that are affiliated with AmEx's FHR program.
- When looking at % of properties that are tied to Virtuoso, Hyatt's 6.7% is far more than Hilton's 0.3% (11/3800), but is less than Starwood's 8% (79 out of 992).
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
does the following reflect a miscommunication or missing context etc?
The part that I do not have a lot of insight on is the fee structure that a property agrees to when they join Virtuoso (or Signature, FHR, Ensemble, etc.). I believe that there is an annual fee, but I am not aware of revenue sharing. If we assume the annual fee exists, and a property were to distribute that fee across all Virtuoso bookings, then they could say that they're paying a % of revenue to Virtuoso for the bookings. When added to the 10% that they already pay agencies, perhaps a small property could wind up having to essentially pay 25% - 30%.
I remember similar conversations about Leading Hotels of the World program. I believe (again, I'm not certain on this) that they do charge % of sales, but LHW also provides extra service for the properties, such as listing them in the GDS. (Some LHW properties are already in the GDS, but not all of them.)
Originally Posted by ABG
If a hotelier choses to pay Virtuoso its fees (which has nothing to do with a TA's comm) then so be it.
#19
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Seriously- I do agree that people should be able to earn their living from selling a product- and it is impossible to think that a professional advisor can earn their living from neither charging the supplier nor the client of the service.
#20
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
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different views - different needs......
So be it, Amen !
Time will show if the business model of Vrtuoso has a future. For me they remain an unnecessary intermediary offering only a very limited choice to their customers. This is not real travel advising.
If they are so good and global why on their website you have only the choice of being a guest from the Americas and Australia/New Zealand ?
I persist in stating that their selection is somewhat bland. The confusion between travel agent, marketing group and who knows what is irritating. LHW can not be compared with, as they are a globally recognized brand with consistency - not a small luxury lodge here and a corporate chain hotel there.
#21
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ill use intermediaries for valuable upgrades. virtuoso is just one of many.
youre really talking about average people and not this forum?
thats not really a strongly defensible position. even management companies have consistency problems.
youre really talking about average people and not this forum?
thats not really a strongly defensible position. even management companies have consistency problems.
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Oct 22, 2012 at 8:55 pm
#22
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,836
And with that, I think all the relevant points about Virtuoso as a business concept have been sufficiently made and re-made. So I suggest we return to this thread's original subject: hotels leaving and entering Virtuoso as of January 1, 2013, in case there is anything additional to be said about them.
RichardInSF, moderator, luxury hotels
RichardInSF, moderator, luxury hotels
#23
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Programs: Marriott LTT, HH Diamond, HY Explorist, Avis Pres, Hertz Pres, National EE, AA Au, UA Ag
Posts: 871
On a somewhat related note, Virtuoso has also released their list of properties that will offer upgrades confirmed at booking in 2013.
AFRICA & MIDDLE EAST
South Africa
Taj Cape Town
Mount Nelson Hotel, An Orient-Express Hotel
The Westcliff, An Orient-Express Hotel
ASIA & PACIFIC
Indonesia
Mandarin Oriental, Jakarta
India
Ananda in the Himalayas
Singapore
The Fullerton Bay Hotel Singapore
The Fullerton Hotel Singapore
Australia
The Lyall Hotel and Spa
China
The Peninsula Beijing
China World Summit Wing, Beijing
Island Shangri-La, Hong Kong
BERMUDA & CARIBBEAN
Bahamas
The Cove Atlantis
The Reef Atlantis
CANADA & UNITED STATES
British Columbia
The Fairmont Empress
Arizona
Sanctuary on Camelback Mountain, Resort & Spa
Canyon Ranch, located in Tucson, Arizona
Arkansas
Capital Hotel
California
Fairmont Miramar Hotel & Bungalows
Montage Beverly Hills
Montage Laguna Beach
Mandarin Oriental, San Francisco
Clift Hotel
The Grand Del Mar
District of Columbia
Park Hyatt Washington, DC
Georgia
The Ritz-Carlton Lodge, Reynolds Plantation
Hawaii
Mauna Lani Bay Hotel & Bungalows
Illinois
Sofitel Chicago Water Tower
Massachusetts
Boston Harbor Hotel
Fifteen Beacon
Canyon Ranch, located in Lenox, Massachusetts
New Mexico
Inn and Spa at Loretto
New York
The Pierre New York, a Taj Hotel
Mandarin Oriental, New York
The St. Regis New York
Texas
Hotel Granduca
Utah
Montage Deer Valley
Washington
The Fairmont Olympic Hotel
EUROPE
Austria
Sofitel Vienna Stephansdom
Belgium
Kempinski Hotel Dukes' Palace
England
Chewton Glen
Bovey Castle
France
InterContinental Paris Le Grand
Le Bristol Paris
Germany
Hotel Adlon Kempinski Berlin
The Regent Berlin
Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten Kempinski Munich
Hungary
Kempinski Hotel Corvinus Budapest
Ireland
Castlemartyr Resort
The K Club
Italy
Ca' Sagredo Hotel
Hotel Brufani Palace
Portugal
Aquapura Douro Valley
Scotland
The Gleneagles Hotel
Switzerland
Badrutt's Palace Hotel
Beau-Rivage, Geneva
Widder
The Netherlands
De l'Europe
MEXICO, CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
Mexico
Banyan Tree Cabo Marques
Villa Montana Hotel & Spa
Argentina
Park Hyatt Mendoza
Alvear Palace Hotel
EL CASCO Art Hotel
Costa Rica
Hotel Punta Islita
The upgrades are subject to availability, and may not apply to all room/suite
types.
AFRICA & MIDDLE EAST
South Africa
Taj Cape Town
Mount Nelson Hotel, An Orient-Express Hotel
The Westcliff, An Orient-Express Hotel
ASIA & PACIFIC
Indonesia
Mandarin Oriental, Jakarta
India
Ananda in the Himalayas
Singapore
The Fullerton Bay Hotel Singapore
The Fullerton Hotel Singapore
Australia
The Lyall Hotel and Spa
China
The Peninsula Beijing
China World Summit Wing, Beijing
Island Shangri-La, Hong Kong
BERMUDA & CARIBBEAN
Bahamas
The Cove Atlantis
The Reef Atlantis
CANADA & UNITED STATES
British Columbia
The Fairmont Empress
Arizona
Sanctuary on Camelback Mountain, Resort & Spa
Canyon Ranch, located in Tucson, Arizona
Arkansas
Capital Hotel
California
Fairmont Miramar Hotel & Bungalows
Montage Beverly Hills
Montage Laguna Beach
Mandarin Oriental, San Francisco
Clift Hotel
The Grand Del Mar
District of Columbia
Park Hyatt Washington, DC
Georgia
The Ritz-Carlton Lodge, Reynolds Plantation
Hawaii
Mauna Lani Bay Hotel & Bungalows
Illinois
Sofitel Chicago Water Tower
Massachusetts
Boston Harbor Hotel
Fifteen Beacon
Canyon Ranch, located in Lenox, Massachusetts
New Mexico
Inn and Spa at Loretto
New York
The Pierre New York, a Taj Hotel
Mandarin Oriental, New York
The St. Regis New York
Texas
Hotel Granduca
Utah
Montage Deer Valley
Washington
The Fairmont Olympic Hotel
EUROPE
Austria
Sofitel Vienna Stephansdom
Belgium
Kempinski Hotel Dukes' Palace
England
Chewton Glen
Bovey Castle
France
InterContinental Paris Le Grand
Le Bristol Paris
Germany
Hotel Adlon Kempinski Berlin
The Regent Berlin
Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten Kempinski Munich
Hungary
Kempinski Hotel Corvinus Budapest
Ireland
Castlemartyr Resort
The K Club
Italy
Ca' Sagredo Hotel
Hotel Brufani Palace
Portugal
Aquapura Douro Valley
Scotland
The Gleneagles Hotel
Switzerland
Badrutt's Palace Hotel
Beau-Rivage, Geneva
Widder
The Netherlands
De l'Europe
MEXICO, CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
Mexico
Banyan Tree Cabo Marques
Villa Montana Hotel & Spa
Argentina
Park Hyatt Mendoza
Alvear Palace Hotel
EL CASCO Art Hotel
Costa Rica
Hotel Punta Islita
The upgrades are subject to availability, and may not apply to all room/suite
types.
#24
Join Date: Nov 2005
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This is interesting. Ca'Sagredo is part of SLH, and used to offer upgrades at time of booking to AMEX CTS clients. That was dropped in 2012, and replaced by space-available upgrades at check-in.
#25
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Posts: 100,332
These confirmed at booking upgrades are one room category upgrades, right?
#26
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Correct. IIRC some hotels imposed restrictions regarding confirmed suite upgrades (e.g. no confirmed upgrade from one-bedroom suite to two-bedroo suite) in the past, but other than that a nice perk.
#28
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Posts: 871
Good catch. You're correct. In 2013, the Shangri-La Paris is switching to upgrades upon arrival. They are also increasing their food/beverage credit from 80 EUR to 85 EUR, and throwing in a welcome bottle of champagne.
#29
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fairfield County, CT USA
Programs: AA PLT+2MM / DL DM+1MM / A3 *G / Fairmont LT Plat / Ritz Gold / SPG Gold
Posts: 4,077
I booked a moderate hotel for one night in Adelaide via Expedia or some similar site. This was an A$125 night sort of place. I saw the hotel's internal paperwork, and it seemed they netted about 65% of my paid rate...with the balance kept by the intermediary agent.