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Virtuoso - new hotels and non-renewals for 2013

Virtuoso - new hotels and non-renewals for 2013

Old Oct 22, 2012, 10:04 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by ABG
yeah, people earning a living from selling a product..... Pretty sinister stuff.
does the following reflect a miscommunication or missing context etc?

Originally Posted by behuman
an Aman whose name I will not disclose here stated that they have to pay 25% to Virtuoso
Originally Posted by behuman
Virtuoso...charge exorbitant commissions up to 30%
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 10:48 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
does the following reflect a miscommunication or missing context etc?
Reflects quoting hearsay as fact.... The poster in question lauds LHW Leaders Club frequently, but dumps on Virtuoso. LHW costs hotels way more than Virtuoso/FHR/Signature etc. If a hotelier choses to pay Virtuoso its fees (which has nothing to do with a TA's comm) then so be it. Who is behuman to judge?
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:09 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by behuman
They have a very disturbing connection with Hyatt (I don't care if "Park" or not). For me this is NOT luxury.
I would agree that the majority of Hyatts do not fall into the luxury category, and if all Hyatts were part of Virtuoso, I would scratch my head and wonder why. That said, there are currently only 33 Hyatts that are affiliated with Virtuoso -- roughly 6.7% of the 492 Hyatts worldwide.

A couple points of comparison:
  • There are also 33 Hyatts that are affiliated with AmEx's FHR program.
  • When looking at % of properties that are tied to Virtuoso, Hyatt's 6.7% is far more than Hilton's 0.3% (11/3800), but is less than Starwood's 8% (79 out of 992).

Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
does the following reflect a miscommunication or missing context etc?
I wonder if it is an issue of semantics. For the most part, hotels (whether they are affiliated with Virtuoso or not) pay travel agencies a 10% commission. (That commission is then split between the agency and the agent -- but that is for a different thread.) That 10% has little/nothing to do with Virtuoso.

The part that I do not have a lot of insight on is the fee structure that a property agrees to when they join Virtuoso (or Signature, FHR, Ensemble, etc.). I believe that there is an annual fee, but I am not aware of revenue sharing. If we assume the annual fee exists, and a property were to distribute that fee across all Virtuoso bookings, then they could say that they're paying a % of revenue to Virtuoso for the bookings. When added to the 10% that they already pay agencies, perhaps a small property could wind up having to essentially pay 25% - 30%.

I remember similar conversations about Leading Hotels of the World program. I believe (again, I'm not certain on this) that they do charge % of sales, but LHW also provides extra service for the properties, such as listing them in the GDS. (Some LHW properties are already in the GDS, but not all of them.)

Originally Posted by ABG
If a hotelier choses to pay Virtuoso its fees (which has nothing to do with a TA's comm) then so be it.
Agreed. Ultimately, if these programs (Virtuoso, FHR, LHW, etc.) had no value-add for properties, then very few properties would be members.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 3:10 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by ABG
yeah, people earning a living from selling a product..... Pretty sinister stuff.
If you read the Davinci code backwards- starting from the write page- you will understand....

Seriously- I do agree that people should be able to earn their living from selling a product- and it is impossible to think that a professional advisor can earn their living from neither charging the supplier nor the client of the service.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 8:25 pm
  #20  
 
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different views - different needs......

Originally Posted by TRAVELSIG
Seriously- I do agree that people should be able to earn their living from selling a product- and it is impossible to think that a professional advisor can earn their living from neither charging the supplier nor the client of the service.

So be it, Amen !

Time will show if the business model of Vrtuoso has a future. For me they remain an unnecessary intermediary offering only a very limited choice to their customers. This is not real travel advising.

If they are so good and global why on their website you have only the choice of being a guest from the Americas and Australia/New Zealand ?

I persist in stating that their selection is somewhat bland. The confusion between travel agent, marketing group and who knows what is irritating. LHW can not be compared with, as they are a globally recognized brand with consistency - not a small luxury lodge here and a corporate chain hotel there.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 8:45 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by behuman
unnecessary intermediary
ill use intermediaries for valuable upgrades. virtuoso is just one of many.
Originally Posted by behuman
limited choice to their customers
youre really talking about average people and not this forum?
Originally Posted by behuman
[LHW] globally recognized brand with consistency
thats not really a strongly defensible position. even management companies have consistency problems.

Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Oct 22, 2012 at 8:55 pm
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 8:46 pm
  #22  
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And with that, I think all the relevant points about Virtuoso as a business concept have been sufficiently made and re-made. So I suggest we return to this thread's original subject: hotels leaving and entering Virtuoso as of January 1, 2013, in case there is anything additional to be said about them.

RichardInSF, moderator, luxury hotels
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 9:51 pm
  #23  
 
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On a somewhat related note, Virtuoso has also released their list of properties that will offer upgrades confirmed at booking in 2013.

AFRICA & MIDDLE EAST
South Africa
Taj Cape Town
Mount Nelson Hotel, An Orient-Express Hotel
The Westcliff, An Orient-Express Hotel

ASIA & PACIFIC
Indonesia
Mandarin Oriental, Jakarta

India
Ananda in the Himalayas

Singapore
The Fullerton Bay Hotel Singapore
The Fullerton Hotel Singapore

Australia
The Lyall Hotel and Spa

China
The Peninsula Beijing
China World Summit Wing, Beijing
Island Shangri-La, Hong Kong

BERMUDA & CARIBBEAN
Bahamas
The Cove Atlantis
The Reef Atlantis

CANADA & UNITED STATES
British Columbia
The Fairmont Empress

Arizona
Sanctuary on Camelback Mountain, Resort & Spa
Canyon Ranch, located in Tucson, Arizona

Arkansas
Capital Hotel

California
Fairmont Miramar Hotel & Bungalows
Montage Beverly Hills
Montage Laguna Beach
Mandarin Oriental, San Francisco
Clift Hotel
The Grand Del Mar

District of Columbia
Park Hyatt Washington, DC

Georgia
The Ritz-Carlton Lodge, Reynolds Plantation

Hawaii
Mauna Lani Bay Hotel & Bungalows

Illinois
Sofitel Chicago Water Tower

Massachusetts
Boston Harbor Hotel
Fifteen Beacon
Canyon Ranch, located in Lenox, Massachusetts

New Mexico
Inn and Spa at Loretto

New York
The Pierre New York, a Taj Hotel
Mandarin Oriental, New York
The St. Regis New York

Texas
Hotel Granduca

Utah
Montage Deer Valley

Washington
The Fairmont Olympic Hotel

EUROPE
Austria
Sofitel Vienna Stephansdom

Belgium
Kempinski Hotel Dukes' Palace

England
Chewton Glen
Bovey Castle

France
InterContinental Paris Le Grand
Le Bristol Paris

Germany
Hotel Adlon Kempinski Berlin
The Regent Berlin
Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten Kempinski Munich

Hungary
Kempinski Hotel Corvinus Budapest

Ireland
Castlemartyr Resort
The K Club

Italy
Ca' Sagredo Hotel
Hotel Brufani Palace

Portugal
Aquapura Douro Valley

Scotland
The Gleneagles Hotel

Switzerland
Badrutt's Palace Hotel
Beau-Rivage, Geneva
Widder

The Netherlands
De l'Europe

MEXICO, CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
Mexico
Banyan Tree Cabo Marques
Villa Montana Hotel & Spa

Argentina
Park Hyatt Mendoza
Alvear Palace Hotel
EL CASCO Art Hotel

Costa Rica
Hotel Punta Islita

The upgrades are subject to availability, and may not apply to all room/suite
types.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 10:06 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by MarshKing
On a somewhat related note, Virtuoso has also released their list of properties that will offer upgrades confirmed at booking in 2013.

Ca' Sagredo Hotel...
This is interesting. Ca'Sagredo is part of SLH, and used to offer upgrades at time of booking to AMEX CTS clients. That was dropped in 2012, and replaced by space-available upgrades at check-in.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 2:47 am
  #25  
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These confirmed at booking upgrades are one room category upgrades, right?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 5:15 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
These confirmed at booking upgrades are one room category upgrades, right?
Correct. IIRC some hotels imposed restrictions regarding confirmed suite upgrades (e.g. no confirmed upgrade from one-bedroom suite to two-bedroo suite) in the past, but other than that a nice perk.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 7:11 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by MarshKing
France
InterContinental Paris Le Grand
Le Bristol Paris
No more confirmed upgrades at Shangri-La Paris?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 7:40 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by MikeFromTokyo
No more confirmed upgrades at Shangri-La Paris?
Good catch. You're correct. In 2013, the Shangri-La Paris is switching to upgrades upon arrival. They are also increasing their food/beverage credit from 80 EUR to 85 EUR, and throwing in a welcome bottle of champagne.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 3:15 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
does the following reflect a miscommunication or missing context etc?
I booked a moderate hotel for one night in Adelaide via Expedia or some similar site. This was an A$125 night sort of place. I saw the hotel's internal paperwork, and it seemed they netted about 65% of my paid rate...with the balance kept by the intermediary agent.
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