speedbird001

I believe most readers of this formum are like me. I want to know absolutlely the best hotel in each city / country and it is relative to the place. We should not limit this to particular companies. For example, if I am going to Casablance the best hotel is the Hyatt, it should stay in this forum and not be bumped to the Hyatt forum. Or, Tel Aviv where the best hotel is the Hilton...same thing. I think this discussion started because someone posted a reveiw (albeit commercial) on The Mayfair in London. London is a city with 6-8 top, luxury hotels and this hotel is clearly 2nd tier and does not belong.

aBroadAbroad

Seems silly to try to define the category by naming just a few brand names.

First, nearly all of the chains mentioned have at least one comparatively sub-par property in their inventories, some decidedly so (with the possible exception being, arguably, Aman).

Second, even when generalizing an entire chain to the category, whether the chain truly belongs is largely in the eye of the beholder, depending on personal experiences. For example, we've had almost no failures at FS and Aman, but have found Peninsula and MO to be consistently lacking, to the point of avoiding them if something "better" is available (subjective).

Finally, as already pointed out, in our experience there are plenty of (and possibly more) exquisite, truly luxurious, standalone properties that certainly should not be excluded.

When we think luxury, as the term seems generally to be applied in this forum, we tend to think of properties that might be described as "Five Star Plus" -- i.e., they are firmly anchored in the five-star rankings, but clearly go above and beyond even the typical expectations of a hotel of that status.

While 5*+ is a somewhat subjective definition, to be sure, it still is probably one that most people can mostly agree upon. Giving examples of what constitutes the category makes sense, but it adds an additional qualifier that is less restrictive.

Also, agree wholeheartedly with the comments about being uncertain whether a small property "belongs" here and/or not knowing of a better place for inquiries about properties that don't quite measure up to this forum's definition of luxury. Not sure of the solution (other than to preface such inquiries with, "I know this isn't technically a luxury property, but..."). Perhaps a sticky for inquiries and ongoing discussion of "Not Quite Luxury" properties that don't quite fit anywhere else?

ETA: Agree very strongly with the notion that a property's luxury standing is very much context-driven (i.e., relative to the specific offerings of a certain locale), as well as the fact that there are a number of exceptions within big chains with award programs (Waldorf-Astoria comes to mind).

Kagehitokiri

"lounge" thread for anything including offtopic >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l-welcome.html

in this forum >
service - primary focus
amenities - ?
rooms - less emphasis, majority of those who emphasize most seem to be business travelers?
food - less emphasis, no absolute standards, standards vary, also a different issue

Ericka

Per Luxury's suggestion, let's put forward some ideas. I'll start by making this one official.....

Discussion regarding luxury hotels such as Four Seasons, Aman, Peninsula, Mandarin Oriental, and Ritz Carlton, as well as exceptional boutique hotels.

I feel this description better helps the outsider understand the types of hotels we talk about since these brands should be pretty well known. By keeping the "such as" we are not limiting the discussion to these hotels, just giving the reader a feel. I've kept Ritz Carlton not because they are all great hotels but because they are more widely known than, say, Dorchester.

Are small hotels like Twin Farms/Villa Feltrinelli considered boutique hotels?

paul2

Ericka,
I think the word 'boutique' can be omitted and "as well as exceptional hotels" included so that hotels such as Twin Farms and Villa Feltrinnelli and many others can be included.
On a minor note, Aman should read Amanresorts.

We certainly don't want to miss any new wonderful discovery!

Ericka

If you use the formal brand name Amanresorts, don't you then have to do the same for the others? Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, The Peninsula Hotels, etc.

BENLEE

I agree with this. I think perhaps a more adept description will be to say high end or top boutique and luxury hotels around the world and also mentioned chains like Ritz or Aman or FS. And we should not automatically exclude the chain hotels from the discussion. Some of the chains have top end segments like the Park Hyatt, St Regis or Conrad that are indeed luxury properties and have their place of discussion here. The problem with the chain forums are that most topics discussed over there tends to revolve around how to maximize reward points or petty complaints about not getting room upgrades rather than discussion on room quality or service.

paul2

Ericka, I was thinking of what people might see when looking at this forum for the first time. Obviously I wouldn't suggest that Four Seasons be referenced as just 'Four'. Aman in my opinion is better referenced as Amanresorts.

bearbrick

Remove ritz Carlton as it's confusing.. Amanresorts should be in but hopefully still remain true to itself after the possible sale.

Perhaps peninsula to give it a "geographical resonance " as it's home base is in Asia ....but different from Aman in that it's in the category of the " behemoth " types of luxe hotels like four seasons .

Dorchester is another name that is always under the radar fr some reason .

MikeFromTokyo

I think that it might be a good idea to include the Dorchester Collection, as its hotels are perfect examples of non-chain affiliated luxury hotels that are discussed in this forum. People who are not familiar with the Dorchester Collection might be inclined to Google it out of curiosity, which would be informative.

I think that the word boutique should be left out of the description because it could cause confusion.

One and Only is another name that could be used.

MSPeconomist

Let us not forget small chains such as Imperial and Raffles that in fact have their own loyalty programs. Orient Express hotels provide another example, but I am not aware of any loyalty program for them and maybe their rail service should be discussed here rather than with other trains as their product is more of a luxury hotel than train transportation.

In practice, this forum has included discussion of programs such as FHR, LHW, and Virtuoso, which I think should continue to be included because this their obvious home on FT. Also, in practice, many of the Park Hyatt and St Regis discussions are in the Hyatt and Starwood fora, while RC tends to be here because they are not, at least yet, well integrated into the MR program. I think this is as it should be.

OTOH, comparisons across top hotel or top hotels in some particular location, such as RC vs Peninsula vs Park Hyatt in Tokyo, tend to appear in threads here. Again this seems sensible to me.

I think we should be explicit that, at least for now, discussion of almost luxury properties is welcome here if they are not part of a hotel family and program with it's own forum. For instance, Andaz stays with Hyatt, St Regis and W with Starwood, but independent boutique hotels are discussed here as they currently have no other home on FT. At some point, there might be a case for establishing a separate almost luxury forum on FT but I do not envision that happening soon because TB tends to resist the formation of new fora and requires strong documentation of the need for them before consideration can occur.

speedbird001

I don't know why we are talking about chains? It should be any super, luxury hotel and it needs to be relative to the city.

Ericka

You are absolutely correct! I (think) we are just trying to come up with a set of example properties because without them, there is the fear outside users will not understand the level of luxury we're talking about.

Is this what you were thinking, speedbird001?
Discussion regarding the very best luxury hotels in locations around the world.

Do all feel free to write some new ideas or edit ones that are already suggested. ^

speedbird001

That's exactly what I am saying. Read my examples in earlier posts where I have included chains because they are the best in certain cities. But including The Mayfair against names like The Dorchester, Claridges, etc. in London just doesn't fly.

Ericka

Another version...

Discussion regarding luxury hotels such as Four Seasons, Amanresorts, Peninsula, Mandarin Oriental, and Dorchester, as well as the very best independently-owned hotels in locations around the world.