Aman at Summer Palace Beijing and several other hotels
Aug 29, 2011, 1:07 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: here and there
Programs: some
Posts: 3,379
Aman at Summer Palace Beijing and several other hotels
I would like to share some experiences from this week and last. Excuse my brevity.
Hilton Millennium Bangkok. A very decent hotel. Pluses are the very pleasant public areas, good breakfast and nice views from the room (all rooms have river views). The pool is very attractive too but too small. The bar on the top floor (360) has, as you would imagine, very good views and good cocktails. Over all for the price I paid (about 65 pounds including breakfast) I thought this represented good value. I did not like the fact that they stopped doing a turn-down service since my last stay. And why no IHT in the morning? Its printed locally!
Davis Hotel still representing very good value. Although not a luxury hotel this is a solid 4 star property. A point to note is that since my fifth or sixth stay I have been upgraded every time, including once to the ambassador suite with its ridiculously-sized spapool (it could easily hold 6 people) and this time to a Davis suite although I had only booked the cheapest studio room.
Huang Yuan hotel Beijing s tayed here because of its proximity to a conference I attended. Although billed as a 4 star hotel, read this as Chinese 4 stars, in other word Western 2 stars. Carpets were unbelievably filthy, staff indifferent and overall its just a place to stay if you have to, but no more.
Shangri-la Valley Wing. Nowhere near the standard of the Valley Wing in say Singapore. Swimming pool and even the water in the spapool stinks of sweat and the wet facilities just look stale and, in places, dirty. Did not even go for a swim. Lounge: they serve Perrier-Jouet which is nice. Food selection in the evening is acceptable as is breakfast. For lunch they take away the sandwiches that they put back at 14:00! I guess they are trying to encourage you to use one of the restaurants. Service in the hotel is well-intentioned and acceptable but spotty and far from anything that might be labelled as sophisticated. My room was spacious, and apart from some dubious stains in the carpet, pleasant enough. The bed was very good. The view is over neighbouring housing blocks; unattractive. All in all the hotel is acceptable but no more. My last stay in Beijing at the Peninsula in 2005 was certainly considerably better, although that too had its flaws.
And then we come to the Aman at Summer Palace. Lets get this out of the way first: I do not know of a city hotel (if this qualifies as such) I would rather stay anywhere in the world, and this now replaces the George V as my personal favourite 'hotel'. I will not attempt to describe the property, there have been plenty of descriptions here suffice to stay it is mindblowing, and I say this even though this is my 10th Aman. The facilities are superb the ozone-treated 25m underground pool is breathtaking and the private cinema really fabulous. Fresh popcorn and water are brought out and, having the facilities to myself most of the time, it all felt very special. Food was superb. We had Peking Duck at the Chinese restaurant and it really was as good as Dadong or Quanjude. The French Kaiseki meal we had at Naoki was fabulous the presentation sublime (but it is very expensive - more than what I would pay in Central London!). The setting of the restaurant (we were the only guests) is very attractive too. Breakfast was superb. The other facilities are sublime the bar overlooking the pond, the library, the incredible fitness and wet facilities, and of course the room. I was lucky to be upgraded from a basic room to a courtyard executive (I believe it is called) suite (I cannot remember a time when I was not upgraded at Aman), which was spacious and very beautiful (interestingly with a rather small bath!). Aman has a private gate directly into the Summer Palace, which is not only unbelievably cool but also a valuable time saver, allowing you to enter when people are not yet there or when they are on their way out. This is the kind of property that makes you forget you are spending a ridiculous amount of money and gives you what is so valuable an experience.
So, was it perfect? No, far from it. The one main area in which this property is let down is the staffing. A lot more work needs to be done. On the positive side, it was very obvious that all staff genuinely do their best and are eager to please no mean feat in China, which to my mind has some of the worst service culture in the world. But there is no sophistication at all, or at least not yet (with a very few exceptions). Things got off to a bad start with no one helping me with my luggage probably because a bunch of tourists were touring the lobby and no one recognised me as a guest. Similarly, checkout was bad it took over 20 minutes to resolve a minor issue and I ended up arriving late at my next appointment. Also, this is the first Aman were I heard the infamous phrase would you like me to charge that to your room? the last thing you want to hear in an Aman, and this coming from the Japanese front desk manager (?) when I gave her a postcard to send (and this also makes it the first Aman to charge for a postcard stamp!). Similarly at the end of our dinner I was asked if I wanted to pay now or charge it to my room (they knew I stayed at the hotel) very inappropriate and unnecessary and causing me some embarrassment with my guest who now insisted on paying. English skills of staff are acceptable but with great variation. Lack of sophistication is evident in many places for example in the afternoon events take place in the library. On this particular day calligraphy with an artist, which is great and one of the things I love about Aman. Except the calligrapher (understandably) didnt speak English, nor did the two girls pouring tea and the one Aman staff (a very young woman) did not have the proactive ability to approach me to ask if I was there for the demonstration/lesson and wanted to participate. If I didnt speak some Chinese myself I am not sure if I would have even participated. Other, similar minor issues occurred throughout. I identified the reason as being an almost complete absence of any senior staff. After a very pleasant chat with the assistant manager, I never saw any evidence of adult supervision again. Most of the staff seem to be in their early twenties and are clearly not yet very experienced. I have no doubt many will still be with Aman in ten years and develop the kind of service culture that for example the Indonesian Amans are so loved for, but right now much more hand-holding is necessary. This was a major let-down in my view as, as I mentioned earlier, the overall willingness seems to be there.
I did not use the spa as it was closed for renovation. I suspect that this was due to poor workmanship there was evidence of early deterioration in the steam room, which in fact had so many unattractive mould-like stains on the door and tiles that I did not even use it (also, the temperature was far too low).
So, a lot of room for improvement. I believe with better management presence a lot of the issues could easily be overcome, and with time many of them will improve.
Despite these concerns, this is an astounding property and one that I cannot recommend strongly enough. It really is an experience and a privilege to stay here.
Hilton Millennium Bangkok. A very decent hotel. Pluses are the very pleasant public areas, good breakfast and nice views from the room (all rooms have river views). The pool is very attractive too but too small. The bar on the top floor (360) has, as you would imagine, very good views and good cocktails. Over all for the price I paid (about 65 pounds including breakfast) I thought this represented good value. I did not like the fact that they stopped doing a turn-down service since my last stay. And why no IHT in the morning? Its printed locally!
Davis Hotel still representing very good value. Although not a luxury hotel this is a solid 4 star property. A point to note is that since my fifth or sixth stay I have been upgraded every time, including once to the ambassador suite with its ridiculously-sized spapool (it could easily hold 6 people) and this time to a Davis suite although I had only booked the cheapest studio room.
Huang Yuan hotel Beijing s tayed here because of its proximity to a conference I attended. Although billed as a 4 star hotel, read this as Chinese 4 stars, in other word Western 2 stars. Carpets were unbelievably filthy, staff indifferent and overall its just a place to stay if you have to, but no more.
Shangri-la Valley Wing. Nowhere near the standard of the Valley Wing in say Singapore. Swimming pool and even the water in the spapool stinks of sweat and the wet facilities just look stale and, in places, dirty. Did not even go for a swim. Lounge: they serve Perrier-Jouet which is nice. Food selection in the evening is acceptable as is breakfast. For lunch they take away the sandwiches that they put back at 14:00! I guess they are trying to encourage you to use one of the restaurants. Service in the hotel is well-intentioned and acceptable but spotty and far from anything that might be labelled as sophisticated. My room was spacious, and apart from some dubious stains in the carpet, pleasant enough. The bed was very good. The view is over neighbouring housing blocks; unattractive. All in all the hotel is acceptable but no more. My last stay in Beijing at the Peninsula in 2005 was certainly considerably better, although that too had its flaws.
And then we come to the Aman at Summer Palace. Lets get this out of the way first: I do not know of a city hotel (if this qualifies as such) I would rather stay anywhere in the world, and this now replaces the George V as my personal favourite 'hotel'. I will not attempt to describe the property, there have been plenty of descriptions here suffice to stay it is mindblowing, and I say this even though this is my 10th Aman. The facilities are superb the ozone-treated 25m underground pool is breathtaking and the private cinema really fabulous. Fresh popcorn and water are brought out and, having the facilities to myself most of the time, it all felt very special. Food was superb. We had Peking Duck at the Chinese restaurant and it really was as good as Dadong or Quanjude. The French Kaiseki meal we had at Naoki was fabulous the presentation sublime (but it is very expensive - more than what I would pay in Central London!). The setting of the restaurant (we were the only guests) is very attractive too. Breakfast was superb. The other facilities are sublime the bar overlooking the pond, the library, the incredible fitness and wet facilities, and of course the room. I was lucky to be upgraded from a basic room to a courtyard executive (I believe it is called) suite (I cannot remember a time when I was not upgraded at Aman), which was spacious and very beautiful (interestingly with a rather small bath!). Aman has a private gate directly into the Summer Palace, which is not only unbelievably cool but also a valuable time saver, allowing you to enter when people are not yet there or when they are on their way out. This is the kind of property that makes you forget you are spending a ridiculous amount of money and gives you what is so valuable an experience.
So, was it perfect? No, far from it. The one main area in which this property is let down is the staffing. A lot more work needs to be done. On the positive side, it was very obvious that all staff genuinely do their best and are eager to please no mean feat in China, which to my mind has some of the worst service culture in the world. But there is no sophistication at all, or at least not yet (with a very few exceptions). Things got off to a bad start with no one helping me with my luggage probably because a bunch of tourists were touring the lobby and no one recognised me as a guest. Similarly, checkout was bad it took over 20 minutes to resolve a minor issue and I ended up arriving late at my next appointment. Also, this is the first Aman were I heard the infamous phrase would you like me to charge that to your room? the last thing you want to hear in an Aman, and this coming from the Japanese front desk manager (?) when I gave her a postcard to send (and this also makes it the first Aman to charge for a postcard stamp!). Similarly at the end of our dinner I was asked if I wanted to pay now or charge it to my room (they knew I stayed at the hotel) very inappropriate and unnecessary and causing me some embarrassment with my guest who now insisted on paying. English skills of staff are acceptable but with great variation. Lack of sophistication is evident in many places for example in the afternoon events take place in the library. On this particular day calligraphy with an artist, which is great and one of the things I love about Aman. Except the calligrapher (understandably) didnt speak English, nor did the two girls pouring tea and the one Aman staff (a very young woman) did not have the proactive ability to approach me to ask if I was there for the demonstration/lesson and wanted to participate. If I didnt speak some Chinese myself I am not sure if I would have even participated. Other, similar minor issues occurred throughout. I identified the reason as being an almost complete absence of any senior staff. After a very pleasant chat with the assistant manager, I never saw any evidence of adult supervision again. Most of the staff seem to be in their early twenties and are clearly not yet very experienced. I have no doubt many will still be with Aman in ten years and develop the kind of service culture that for example the Indonesian Amans are so loved for, but right now much more hand-holding is necessary. This was a major let-down in my view as, as I mentioned earlier, the overall willingness seems to be there.
I did not use the spa as it was closed for renovation. I suspect that this was due to poor workmanship there was evidence of early deterioration in the steam room, which in fact had so many unattractive mould-like stains on the door and tiles that I did not even use it (also, the temperature was far too low).
So, a lot of room for improvement. I believe with better management presence a lot of the issues could easily be overcome, and with time many of them will improve.
Despite these concerns, this is an astounding property and one that I cannot recommend strongly enough. It really is an experience and a privilege to stay here.
Aug 29, 2011, 1:50 pm
#2
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toronto
Programs: SPG Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 855
Fascinating report. Many thanks! Amazing to hear how so many things left much to be desired, but that on the whole, it was a fabulous experience. I cannot think of any other proprietor that can have so many let-downs, but manage to pull of the entire experience. This is a testament to Aman!
Aug 29, 2011, 2:12 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
tourists were touring the lobby
calligrapher (understandably) didn’t speak English, nor did the two girls pouring tea
I identified the reason as being an almost complete absence of any senior staff. After a very pleasant chat with the assistant manager, I never saw any evidence of ‘adult supervision’ again.
calligrapher (understandably) didn’t speak English, nor did the two girls pouring tea
I identified the reason as being an almost complete absence of any senior staff. After a very pleasant chat with the assistant manager, I never saw any evidence of ‘adult supervision’ again.
)the two girls pouring tea - they were with calligrapher and not aman staff?
Aug 29, 2011, 3:15 pm
#4
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: La Jolla, California
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold, SWA CP
Posts: 1,123
I wanted to add a few comments to this ASP review. I'm less impressed with this place than others here. When I stayed, during winter, I ultimately gave up asking the staff to do anything. Mark, if he is still GM, has a problem here. I simply couldn't communicate what I needed; nobody within shouting distance spoke any English. I remember carrying my own luggage from furthest most room in the back of the resort to the front desk at the end of my stay. I had given up asking for this sort of task from the staff. When I got to the front I was asked by the guy manning the door "Who are you? Where did you come from?". I didn't respond, but thought: "I am a guest, dude. One of the FEW here: YOU SHOULD KNOW WHO I AM." I did not see a single other guest in the hotel during my three night stay, making this mistake unforgivable.
I had left some luggage at the front and needed it brought to my room. I didn't bother trying to get that accomplished and repacked the luggage in the lobby, to the horror of the staff. Most, if not all, of my requests were met with a polite 'yes', followed by no action. "Could you have this piece of luggage brought to my room?" was a met with blank stares. Clearly the staff simply doesn't understand the language. The is utterly inexcusable at an Aman. Clearly, staffing in China is a problem.
The kitchen couldn't deliver coffee and milk to my room: coffee was cold; milk was rotten. This is a two-fer -- two mistakes in one. They can't even get a pot of coffee correct? I didn't ask for that again. One sink wasn't working. There wasn't enough light in the room to read (style over substance). I had to crawl over furniture to get into bed. The curtains cannot be opened.
I went out into Summer Palace through that magic back door. They gave me a phone to call the front desk to call to get reentry to the resort. When I called using this phone, the person answering had no idea who I was, why I was calling, or what to do. She couldn't speak 1 word of English and, apparently, hadn't been told that the only person in the resort was in the Summer Palace and would be calling to be let back in.
I ate at Naoki. I didn't find it memorable and I FIND IT CREEPY to be the only person in a restaurant. I was the only person. When I went to the bar, I was the only person. The glass of Merlot I had was bad. I didn't try to get that fixed.
I just got back from Beijing and stayed at the Pen. And the Pen has none of these issues. It turns out the location of ASP would have been better for my hosts. It took nearly 60 minutes to get from the office to the Pen with Beijing traffic.
ASP does have some magic, but the service issues at this place have driven me elsewhere in Beijing when I am visiting on business. Also, this place is to be avoided in winter. Most of resources described above are unavailable during the winter.
On checkout, Mark-the-GM was too busy networking with some socialites that had dropped in to say goodbye. These people, who were not guests, were clearly more important than I. I went quietly to the airport via taxi.
I had left some luggage at the front and needed it brought to my room. I didn't bother trying to get that accomplished and repacked the luggage in the lobby, to the horror of the staff. Most, if not all, of my requests were met with a polite 'yes', followed by no action. "Could you have this piece of luggage brought to my room?" was a met with blank stares. Clearly the staff simply doesn't understand the language. The is utterly inexcusable at an Aman. Clearly, staffing in China is a problem.
The kitchen couldn't deliver coffee and milk to my room: coffee was cold; milk was rotten. This is a two-fer -- two mistakes in one. They can't even get a pot of coffee correct? I didn't ask for that again. One sink wasn't working. There wasn't enough light in the room to read (style over substance). I had to crawl over furniture to get into bed. The curtains cannot be opened.
I went out into Summer Palace through that magic back door. They gave me a phone to call the front desk to call to get reentry to the resort. When I called using this phone, the person answering had no idea who I was, why I was calling, or what to do. She couldn't speak 1 word of English and, apparently, hadn't been told that the only person in the resort was in the Summer Palace and would be calling to be let back in.
I ate at Naoki. I didn't find it memorable and I FIND IT CREEPY to be the only person in a restaurant. I was the only person. When I went to the bar, I was the only person. The glass of Merlot I had was bad. I didn't try to get that fixed.
I just got back from Beijing and stayed at the Pen. And the Pen has none of these issues. It turns out the location of ASP would have been better for my hosts. It took nearly 60 minutes to get from the office to the Pen with Beijing traffic.
ASP does have some magic, but the service issues at this place have driven me elsewhere in Beijing when I am visiting on business. Also, this place is to be avoided in winter. Most of resources described above are unavailable during the winter.
On checkout, Mark-the-GM was too busy networking with some socialites that had dropped in to say goodbye. These people, who were not guests, were clearly more important than I. I went quietly to the airport via taxi.
Last edited by mike_la_jolla; Aug 29, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Aug 29, 2011, 5:34 pm
#5
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 751
Fascinating report. Many thanks! Amazing to hear how so many things left much to be desired, but that on the whole, it was a fabulous experience. I cannot think of any other proprietor that can have so many let-downs, but manage to pull of the entire experience. This is a testament to Aman!
At any rate, my thanks to Fliar for the report. Sounds like another Aman to skip. Always good to know the duds...
Aug 29, 2011, 5:39 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Enroute to ? & likely flying in ' A ':)
Programs: TPPS, UA, EK ...; Marriott BONVOY , HH, GP, GC..
Posts: 4,217
I would like to share some experiences from this week and last. Excuse my brevity.
My last stay in Beijing at the Peninsula in 2005 was certainly considerably better, although that too had its flaws.
And then we come to the Aman at Summer Palace. Let’s get this out of the way first: I do not know of a city hotel (if this qualifies as such) I would rather stay anywhere in the world, and this now replaces the George V as my personal favourite 'hotel'. I will not attempt to describe the property, there have been plenty of descriptions here – suffice to stay it is mindblowing, and I say this even though this is my 10th Aman. The facilities are superb – the ozone-treated 25m underground pool is breathtaking and the private cinema really fabulous. Fresh popcorn and water are brought out and, having the facilities to myself most of the time, it all felt very special. Food was superb. We had Peking Duck at the Chinese restaurant and it really was as good as Dadong or Quanjude. The ‘French Kaiseki’ meal we had at Naoki was fabulous – the presentation sublime (but it is very expensive - more than what I would pay in Central London!). The setting of the restaurant (we were the only guests) is very attractive too. Breakfast was superb. The other facilities are sublime – the bar overlooking the pond, the library, the incredible fitness and wet facilities, and of course the room. I was lucky to be upgraded from a basic room to a courtyard executive (I believe it is called) suite (I cannot remember a time when I was not upgraded at Aman), which was spacious and very beautiful (interestingly with a rather small bath!). Aman has a private gate directly into the Summer Palace, which is not only unbelievably cool but also a valuable time saver, allowing you to enter when people are not yet there or when they are on their way out. This is the kind of property that makes you forget you are spending a ridiculous amount of money and gives you what is so valuable – an experience.
So, was it perfect? No, far from it. The one main area in which this property is let down is the staffing. A lot more work needs to be done. On the positive side, it was very obvious that all staff genuinely do their best and are eager to please – no mean feat in China, which to my mind has some of the worst service culture in the world. But there is no sophistication at all, or at least not yet (with a very few exceptions). Things got off to a bad start with no one helping me with my luggage – probably because a bunch of tourists were touring the lobby and no one recognised me as a guest. Similarly, checkout was bad – it took over 20 minutes to resolve a minor issue and I ended up arriving late at my next appointment. Also, this is the first Aman were I heard the infamous phrase ‘would you like me to charge that to your room?’ – the last thing you want to hear in an Aman, and this coming from the Japanese front desk manager (?) when I gave her a postcard to send (and this also makes it the first Aman to charge for a postcard stamp!). Similarly at the end of our dinner I was asked if I wanted to pay now or charge it to my room (they knew I stayed at the hotel) – very inappropriate and unnecessary and causing me some embarrassment with my guest who now insisted on paying. English skills of staff are acceptable but with great variation. Lack of sophistication is evident in many places – for example in the afternoon events take place in the library. On this particular day calligraphy with an artist, which is great and one of the things I love about Aman. Except the calligrapher (understandably) didn’t speak English, nor did the two girls pouring tea and the one Aman staff (a very young woman) did not have the proactive ability to approach me to ask if I was there for the demonstration/lesson and wanted to participate. If I didn’t speak some Chinese myself I am not sure if I would have even participated. Other, similar minor issues occurred throughout. I identified the reason as being an almost complete absence of any senior staff. After a very pleasant chat with the assistant manager, I never saw any evidence of ‘adult supervision’ again. Most of the staff seem to be in their early twenties and are clearly not yet very experienced. I have no doubt many will still be with Aman in ten years and develop the kind of service culture that for example the Indonesian Amans are so loved for, but right now much more hand-holding is necessary. This was a major let-down in my view as, as I mentioned earlier, the overall willingness seems to be there.
I did not use the spa as it was closed for renovation. I suspect that this was due to poor workmanship – there was evidence of early deterioration in the steam room, which in fact had so many unattractive mould-like stains on the door and tiles that I did not even use it (also, the temperature was far too low).
So, a lot of room for improvement. I believe with better management presence a lot of the issues could easily be overcome, and with time many of them will improve.
Despite these concerns, this is an astounding property and one that I cannot recommend strongly enough. It really is an experience and a privilege to stay here.
My last stay in Beijing at the Peninsula in 2005 was certainly considerably better, although that too had its flaws.
And then we come to the Aman at Summer Palace. Let’s get this out of the way first: I do not know of a city hotel (if this qualifies as such) I would rather stay anywhere in the world, and this now replaces the George V as my personal favourite 'hotel'. I will not attempt to describe the property, there have been plenty of descriptions here – suffice to stay it is mindblowing, and I say this even though this is my 10th Aman. The facilities are superb – the ozone-treated 25m underground pool is breathtaking and the private cinema really fabulous. Fresh popcorn and water are brought out and, having the facilities to myself most of the time, it all felt very special. Food was superb. We had Peking Duck at the Chinese restaurant and it really was as good as Dadong or Quanjude. The ‘French Kaiseki’ meal we had at Naoki was fabulous – the presentation sublime (but it is very expensive - more than what I would pay in Central London!). The setting of the restaurant (we were the only guests) is very attractive too. Breakfast was superb. The other facilities are sublime – the bar overlooking the pond, the library, the incredible fitness and wet facilities, and of course the room. I was lucky to be upgraded from a basic room to a courtyard executive (I believe it is called) suite (I cannot remember a time when I was not upgraded at Aman), which was spacious and very beautiful (interestingly with a rather small bath!). Aman has a private gate directly into the Summer Palace, which is not only unbelievably cool but also a valuable time saver, allowing you to enter when people are not yet there or when they are on their way out. This is the kind of property that makes you forget you are spending a ridiculous amount of money and gives you what is so valuable – an experience.
So, was it perfect? No, far from it. The one main area in which this property is let down is the staffing. A lot more work needs to be done. On the positive side, it was very obvious that all staff genuinely do their best and are eager to please – no mean feat in China, which to my mind has some of the worst service culture in the world. But there is no sophistication at all, or at least not yet (with a very few exceptions). Things got off to a bad start with no one helping me with my luggage – probably because a bunch of tourists were touring the lobby and no one recognised me as a guest. Similarly, checkout was bad – it took over 20 minutes to resolve a minor issue and I ended up arriving late at my next appointment. Also, this is the first Aman were I heard the infamous phrase ‘would you like me to charge that to your room?’ – the last thing you want to hear in an Aman, and this coming from the Japanese front desk manager (?) when I gave her a postcard to send (and this also makes it the first Aman to charge for a postcard stamp!). Similarly at the end of our dinner I was asked if I wanted to pay now or charge it to my room (they knew I stayed at the hotel) – very inappropriate and unnecessary and causing me some embarrassment with my guest who now insisted on paying. English skills of staff are acceptable but with great variation. Lack of sophistication is evident in many places – for example in the afternoon events take place in the library. On this particular day calligraphy with an artist, which is great and one of the things I love about Aman. Except the calligrapher (understandably) didn’t speak English, nor did the two girls pouring tea and the one Aman staff (a very young woman) did not have the proactive ability to approach me to ask if I was there for the demonstration/lesson and wanted to participate. If I didn’t speak some Chinese myself I am not sure if I would have even participated. Other, similar minor issues occurred throughout. I identified the reason as being an almost complete absence of any senior staff. After a very pleasant chat with the assistant manager, I never saw any evidence of ‘adult supervision’ again. Most of the staff seem to be in their early twenties and are clearly not yet very experienced. I have no doubt many will still be with Aman in ten years and develop the kind of service culture that for example the Indonesian Amans are so loved for, but right now much more hand-holding is necessary. This was a major let-down in my view as, as I mentioned earlier, the overall willingness seems to be there.
I did not use the spa as it was closed for renovation. I suspect that this was due to poor workmanship – there was evidence of early deterioration in the steam room, which in fact had so many unattractive mould-like stains on the door and tiles that I did not even use it (also, the temperature was far too low).
So, a lot of room for improvement. I believe with better management presence a lot of the issues could easily be overcome, and with time many of them will improve.
Despite these concerns, this is an astounding property and one that I cannot recommend strongly enough. It really is an experience and a privilege to stay here.
Fascinating report. Many thanks! Amazing to hear how so many things left much to be desired, but that on the whole, it was a fabulous experience. I cannot think of any other proprietor that can have so many let-downs, but manage to pull of the entire experience. This is a testament to Aman!
I wanted to add a few comments to this ASP review. I'm less impressed with this place than others here. When I stayed, during winter, I ultimately gave up asking the staff to do anything. Mark, if he is still GM, has a problem here. I simply couldn't communicate what I needed; nobody within shouting distance spoke any English. I remember carrying my own luggage from furthest most room in the back of the resort to the front desk at the end of my stay. I had given up asking for this sort of task from the staff. When I got to the front I was asked by the guy manning the door "Who are you? Where did you come from?". I didn't respond, but thought: "I am a guest, dude. One of the FEW here: YOU SHOULD KNOW WHO I AM." I did not see a single other guest in the hotel during my three night stay, making this mistake unforgivable.
I had left some luggage at the front and needed it brought to my room. I didn't bother trying to get that accomplished and repacked the luggage in the lobby, to the horror of the staff. Most, if not all, of my requests were met with a polite 'yes', followed by no action. "Could you have this piece of luggage brought to my room?" was a met with blank stares. Clearly the staff simply doesn't understand the language. The is utterly inexcusable at an Aman. Clearly, staffing in China is a problem.
The kitchen couldn't deliver coffee and milk to my room: coffee was cold; milk was rotten. This is a two-fer -- two mistakes in one. They can't even get a pot of coffee correct? I didn't ask for that again. One sink wasn't working. There wasn't enough light in the room to read (style over substance). I had to crawl over furniture to get into bed. The curtains cannot be opened.
I went out into Summer Palace through that magic back door. They gave me a phone to call the front desk to call to get reentry to the resort. When I called using this phone, the person answering had no idea who I was, why I was calling, or what to do. She couldn't speak 1 word of English and, apparently, hadn't been told that the only person in the resort was in the Summer Palace and would be calling to be let back in.
I ate at Naoki. I didn't find it memorable and I FIND IT CREEPY to be the only person in a restaurant. I was the only person. When I went to the bar, I was the only person. The glass of Merlot I had was bad. I didn't try to get that fixed.
I just got back from Beijing and stayed at the Pen. And the Pen has none of these issues. It turns out the location of ASP would have been better for my hosts. It took nearly 60 minutes to get from the office to the Pen with Beijing traffic.
ASP does have some magic, but the service issues at this place have driven me elsewhere in Beijing when I am visiting on business. Also, this place is to be avoided in winter. Most of resources described above are unavailable during the winter.
On checkout, Mark-the-GM was too busy networking with some socialites that had dropped in to say goodbye. These people, who were not guests, were clearly more important than I. I went quietly to the airport via taxi.
I had left some luggage at the front and needed it brought to my room. I didn't bother trying to get that accomplished and repacked the luggage in the lobby, to the horror of the staff. Most, if not all, of my requests were met with a polite 'yes', followed by no action. "Could you have this piece of luggage brought to my room?" was a met with blank stares. Clearly the staff simply doesn't understand the language. The is utterly inexcusable at an Aman. Clearly, staffing in China is a problem.
The kitchen couldn't deliver coffee and milk to my room: coffee was cold; milk was rotten. This is a two-fer -- two mistakes in one. They can't even get a pot of coffee correct? I didn't ask for that again. One sink wasn't working. There wasn't enough light in the room to read (style over substance). I had to crawl over furniture to get into bed. The curtains cannot be opened.
I went out into Summer Palace through that magic back door. They gave me a phone to call the front desk to call to get reentry to the resort. When I called using this phone, the person answering had no idea who I was, why I was calling, or what to do. She couldn't speak 1 word of English and, apparently, hadn't been told that the only person in the resort was in the Summer Palace and would be calling to be let back in.
I ate at Naoki. I didn't find it memorable and I FIND IT CREEPY to be the only person in a restaurant. I was the only person. When I went to the bar, I was the only person. The glass of Merlot I had was bad. I didn't try to get that fixed.
I just got back from Beijing and stayed at the Pen. And the Pen has none of these issues. It turns out the location of ASP would have been better for my hosts. It took nearly 60 minutes to get from the office to the Pen with Beijing traffic.
ASP does have some magic, but the service issues at this place have driven me elsewhere in Beijing when I am visiting on business. Also, this place is to be avoided in winter. Most of resources described above are unavailable during the winter.
On checkout, Mark-the-GM was too busy networking with some socialites that had dropped in to say goodbye. These people, who were not guests, were clearly more important than I. I went quietly to the airport via taxi.
Thanks for the detailed brevity!
Mark S is at Amanjiwo, he was super in assisting us then. Christine H is now GM at ASP.
Although there were some minor glitches during our 2010 visit , they were either quickly resolved or alternatives made.
English was a problem for many but what I was told when I met Mark earlier this month is that turnover is a major problem in Beijing/China . e.g.
The very good spa manager has left - not surprising with the conditions being reported , also the Aman Club manager for starters.
Guess with the Aman Club which is meant for select locals , the GM will somehow have to juggle who - those ' socialites ' - he/she's ( greeting ) meeting with at a specific time .. especially if the Club Manager is away
Hendry, the very capable resident manager , thankfully is still there.
There's lots of continuous staff development / English & refresher classes ( for Indonesia / Amanpuri / etc too! ) that needs to be done and then some. ( Then they are poached by the ' new ' places set up by their family friends & such - this is China! )
I rather liked having the theatre to ourselves & sometimes the restaurants too
Glad the spa is being re-done though we only managed ' treatments ' then without using the steam room - good thing we didn't since it probably wasn't up to Aman standards then either.
Will wait till it's re-opened before we return , thanks for including it in the post.
Last edited by FlyerEC; Aug 29, 2011 at 7:03 pm Reason: gender , etc
Aug 29, 2011, 6:20 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
I think this is less a testament to Aman and more a testament to an Amanjunkie trying to convince all that an Aman property is great even when it is clearly not.
At any rate, my thanks to Fliar for the report. Sounds like another Aman to skip. Always good to know the duds...
At any rate, my thanks to Fliar for the report. Sounds like another Aman to skip. Always good to know the duds...
it also seems to be a recurring theme everywhere that management / presence is extremely important. (Groombridge at amanjiwo for example...) i dont know why the question of "does GM matter" ever comes up. obviously doesnt always explain mixed reports, but clearly a big factor.
Aug 30, 2011, 1:17 am
#8
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: OSL
Posts: 2,145
if aman does proper service recovery, the property itself is amazing, if ONLY for the access to summer palace. i mean thats extremely valuable and exclusive by itself.
it also seems to be a recurring theme everywhere that management / presence is extremely important. (Groombridge at amanjiwo for example...) i dont know why the question of "does GM matter" ever comes up. obviously doesnt always explain mixed reports, but clearly a big factor.
it also seems to be a recurring theme everywhere that management / presence is extremely important. (Groombridge at amanjiwo for example...) i dont know why the question of "does GM matter" ever comes up. obviously doesnt always explain mixed reports, but clearly a big factor.
Aug 30, 2011, 9:32 am
#9
Join Date: May 2007
Location: HKG
Programs: SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, QF/HH/TG/SQ GOLD
Posts: 473
After read all the comments here, now I am bit worry about my coming ASP stay soon. I went to ASP for lunch just after opening in late 2008. The experience was really bad. Will see is there any different compare with last time?
BTW Amanfayun is a great property, all the F&B outlets are very unique and good quality. The ex-GM Ian White did a great job.
BTW Amanfayun is a great property, all the F&B outlets are very unique and good quality. The ex-GM Ian White did a great job.
Aug 30, 2011, 10:12 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 6,303
Service in China is nowhere near as good as anywhere else, although I thought Amanfayun was an exception to the norm.
Imagine the service issues FS is going to have when it opens 11 hotels in China over the next 5 years!
Imagine the service issues FS is going to have when it opens 11 hotels in China over the next 5 years!
Aug 30, 2011, 1:59 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: SPG GL, AA GL
Posts: 2,591
Similiar experience here. I stayed in ASP this summer. REALLY disappointed. This was my first Aman & I expected it to be on par with 4 Seasons. Turned out, I had better stay at the Hilton WanFuJing. That's how bad the service was. Amazing ground, absolutely clueless staff.
1. Japanese manager checked us in. She has no clue we booked the package that included tour & meal. She couldn't tell us when we're to meet the guide, which restaurants to go..etc. No upgrade (booked through Virtuoso). I didn't see her again after the check in.
2. Creepy is the right word. We seemed to be the only people there. But service was not personal. They followed behind me in the library and shops, but as soon as I turned around to ask a question, they gave me blank stare. I eventually used this as a tactic if I didn't want to be followed in the library. Didn't matter how simple the question was, "Just a minute" was always the answer.
3. The western restaurant has no idea which breakfast was included in the package. Eggs came first, then cereal, and lastly the toast and tea.
4. The absolutely worst was the Chinese restaurant. Ate there for our included lunch, again, they had no idea what the package was. 10 min later, the waiter brought out a pile of meeting notes and pointed out some pencil-written options. Wow. This meal included 5 dishes. And that took over 2.5 hours. The restaurant manager was gone showing people the hotel ground. 2 waiters were hiding in the kitchen. Some diners actually went into the kitchen to get their own hot water. I asked for pepper for my soup (first course), it didn't come until my dessert. And it was a big heap in a bowl.
5. Asked them to make dinner reservations at local restaurants. They completely forgot. And nobody appologized. Luckily the restaurant was able to sit us.
6. Had a GREAT tour guide. She gave us more info than anyone in the resort, how to get to subway, local places...etc. If you ask front desk, they'll insist you cannot walk around town on your own. They're only interested in booking you a car.
7. The bar was deserted at night. It's open space, so tons of mosquito on the wall. They could have done something about this.
8. Was charged a local phone call that we didn't make. Had to prove that we couldn't make the call (we're on tour).
At the end of 3 nights, I was just exhausted. Seems like every question was a brand new challenge to them. ASP has to do something about this resort. To me, it's not a language problem. The staff just dont' understand what hospitality is. They're very courteous, but they are robots.
After we left, we flew and went to HKG Sheraton. It's night and day difference. I never thought I'd compare Sheraton / Hilton with an Aman.
1. Japanese manager checked us in. She has no clue we booked the package that included tour & meal. She couldn't tell us when we're to meet the guide, which restaurants to go..etc. No upgrade (booked through Virtuoso). I didn't see her again after the check in.
2. Creepy is the right word. We seemed to be the only people there. But service was not personal. They followed behind me in the library and shops, but as soon as I turned around to ask a question, they gave me blank stare. I eventually used this as a tactic if I didn't want to be followed in the library. Didn't matter how simple the question was, "Just a minute" was always the answer.
3. The western restaurant has no idea which breakfast was included in the package. Eggs came first, then cereal, and lastly the toast and tea.
4. The absolutely worst was the Chinese restaurant. Ate there for our included lunch, again, they had no idea what the package was. 10 min later, the waiter brought out a pile of meeting notes and pointed out some pencil-written options. Wow. This meal included 5 dishes. And that took over 2.5 hours. The restaurant manager was gone showing people the hotel ground. 2 waiters were hiding in the kitchen. Some diners actually went into the kitchen to get their own hot water. I asked for pepper for my soup (first course), it didn't come until my dessert. And it was a big heap in a bowl.
5. Asked them to make dinner reservations at local restaurants. They completely forgot. And nobody appologized. Luckily the restaurant was able to sit us.
6. Had a GREAT tour guide. She gave us more info than anyone in the resort, how to get to subway, local places...etc. If you ask front desk, they'll insist you cannot walk around town on your own. They're only interested in booking you a car.
7. The bar was deserted at night. It's open space, so tons of mosquito on the wall. They could have done something about this.
8. Was charged a local phone call that we didn't make. Had to prove that we couldn't make the call (we're on tour).
At the end of 3 nights, I was just exhausted. Seems like every question was a brand new challenge to them. ASP has to do something about this resort. To me, it's not a language problem. The staff just dont' understand what hospitality is. They're very courteous, but they are robots.
After we left, we flew and went to HKG Sheraton. It's night and day difference. I never thought I'd compare Sheraton / Hilton with an Aman.
Aug 30, 2011, 2:16 pm
#12
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: La Jolla, California
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold, SWA CP
Posts: 1,123
Given my experiences after two stays at the FS Shanghai, I have some serious doubts FS can pull this massive China expansion off without some exploding turds.
On the service question: China is leagues above Germany and marginally above Switzerland. I always get tortured by the hotel staffs in Germany. During my last stay in Munich at a 5* hotel, I had the audacity to ask for a non-smoking room. THAT really set off the front desk clerk. "Dumb American and his STUPID demands ..." If you are an American DO NOT EVER ask for a room with a view in Switzerland
Aug 30, 2011, 2:26 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: here and there
Programs: some
Posts: 3,379
They were not with the calligrapher and they were not Aman staff - they were an 'attraction' as you could sample the local teas. Nice idea, pity they didn't speak English.
Aug 30, 2011, 2:29 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: here and there
Programs: some
Posts: 3,379
I am not trying to 'convince' anyone of anything. I couldn't give a rat's *ss if you decide to stay at ASP or not, I am just sharing my experiences.
To call this place a 'dud', at least if you are basing that on my review, is a bit pathetic really. Perhaps you are trying to do some convincing of your own?
Aug 30, 2011, 2:33 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: here and there
Programs: some
Posts: 3,379
Just a quick final remark, having read the unfavourable experiences of others.
I think things have improved a lot since others have stayed here. There are obviously still a lot of issues to be sorted out but on the whole staff were well-intentioned and friendly. Some (such as the lady serving us at Naoki) were very good indeed and clearly showed Aman attitude.
Although I have in the past expressed my disappointment with Amans, for example Amantaka, the negatives on this visit were far outweighed by the positives.
To each his/her own of course.
I think things have improved a lot since others have stayed here. There are obviously still a lot of issues to be sorted out but on the whole staff were well-intentioned and friendly. Some (such as the lady serving us at Naoki) were very good indeed and clearly showed Aman attitude.
Although I have in the past expressed my disappointment with Amans, for example Amantaka, the negatives on this visit were far outweighed by the positives.
To each his/her own of course.