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Originally Posted by Shangri-La
(Post 13994482)
El Bulli is a money-loser, correct?
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Originally Posted by Shangri-La
(Post 13994518)
Does the MO own the property or just manage it?
http://www.mandarinoriental.com/images/MOIL_ar2009.pdf edit - or not http://www.mandarinoriental.com/images/fact_sheet.pdf 8 majority owned (last = washington 2004) 2 leased (tokyo 2005, paris 2011) 2 ~50% owned |
Originally Posted by fly2nrt
(Post 13995117)
The restaurant itself loses money. He (Adria) makes his money on books, tours, appearances, etc.
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elBulli loses about 20% so pretty close to break-even. Having more staff than guests is a good start to losing money for a restaurant :) Of course the total revenue model for elBulli is highly profitable despite losing money on the meal service, and it doesn't really have a goal of making money, that is definitely a secondary objective for Ferran Adria. Fascinating at so many levels. Of course how many hotels can create a new standard of service or product that their genre will be measured by? A bit like the invention of the elevator, such game-changing events are rare and not really part of the game in terms of investment. For hotels the much simpler property game is all that is needed, and the success of a hotel will raise the value of all real estate for a certain radius. As an aside, Le Bernardin (maybe the best restaurant in the US) was funded by a real estate developer who needed a star attraction in a new not-so-fashionable development, and of course it worked fabulously.
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Originally Posted by number_6
(Post 13997049)
As an aside, Le Bernardin (maybe the best restaurant in the US) was funded by a real estate developer who needed a star attraction in a new not-so-fashionable development, and of course it worked fabulously.
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Originally Posted by TrophyCollector
(Post 13997075)
Good point. The same is true for the Tristan Restaurant in Port de Portals, Mallorca which was originally conceived to sell the (many) empty berths in the marina.
real estate developers have always had a huge incentive to embellish their properties and what could be better than, say, le Bernardin? |
along those lines > http://thestrippodcast.blogspot.com/...d-beyonce.html
Wynn: If you take the ticket price and mutliply it by 60 shows at 1500 people a show and you take $125 a ticket and you say well, 'That won't work plus the cost of a jet.' Friess: Am I wrong? Wynn: No, you’re right. Friess: So, how does it work? Wynn [Laughing]: I don’t wanna tell ya. Friess [Sighing]: OK. Wynn: ...When I got through with Beyonce...we made a terrific amount of money because of the casino. Remember, our only source of income is not the tickets. We have rooms, we have food, beverage and gambling MikeE's story of a baccarat player who lost $2MM 2 nights in a row (total $4MM) pretty much sums up gambling wynn: "[clubs] could do over $150 million for us, with a profit margin in the mid-40s." |
Originally Posted by fly2nrt
(Post 13995117)
The restaurant itself loses money. He (Adria) makes his money on books, tours, appearances, etc.
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Originally Posted by number_6
(Post 13983820)
Many high-end hotels do lose money, but obviously the ones that stay in business have a revenue stream that makes it work. Often it is from other than the hotel itself. Hardly surprising: most of the 10 best restaurants in the world lose money (despite charging hundreds for a meal). There are so many other revenue sources available that sometimes book tours are worth more :)
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i posted the financials for george v, they were as surprisingly low as most things >
Originally Posted by tfjim
(Post 13985681)
Kage quoted some financials here http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13542264-post47.html.
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
(Post 13542264)
(thousands) gross / EBITDA / net / debt / occupancy / % accommodation vs other
2011 ________ / ______ / $11,872 2010 $137,476 / $42,788 / -$28 / ? / 76.5% / 63.3% 2009 $138,368 / $44,657 / $17,680 / $507,200 / 75% / 63.4% 2008 $157,114 / $56,100 / $20,118 / $503,900 / 81.2% / 62.2% 2007 $140,465 / $48,137 / $9,071 / $532,400 / 83.2% / ? 2006 $115,800 / $37,700 / $4,001 / $368,100 / 83.1% / ? (net -$28 > $20,118)
Originally Posted by moien
(Post 14004883)
In 2008 net income was some 64000 €, but he said a month ago that the restaurant is presently losing 500000 € a year. Another important source of revenues are patents.
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peninsula hotels >
http://www.hshgroup.com/en/Investor-...l-Results.aspx Financial Review Chapter incl revenue by category for each property Financial Statements Chapter incl Segment reporting by Business segments > hotel (net) earnings before interest/tax in millions of HKD 2012 - 241 2011 - 256 2010 - 280 2009 - 118 2008 - 523 2007 - 678 2006 - 653 2005 - 556 2004 - 582 2003 - 336 2002 - 215 2001 - 133 (118 > 678) monte carlo SBM, hotel operations > (millions) gross / net / % accommodation vs catering and other 2011 €181.0 / -€8.9 / 34.0% 2010 €170.7 / -€6.5 / 34.6% 2009 €154.8 / -€4.7 / 35.7% 2008 €174.9 / €7.4 / 38.0% 2007 €185.1 / €12.8 / 37.9% 2006 €164.3 / €2.5 / 37.3% 2005 €128.1 / -€6.7 / 34.1% 2004 €113.6 / -€0.1 / 33.2% 2003 €104.0 / €0.2 / 31.8% 2002 €105.7 / €1.8 / 32.3% 2001 €109.5 / €4.1 / ? 2000 €110.0 / €6.8 / ? 1999 €99.4 / €2.6 / ? (-€8.9 > €12.8) casinos - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l#post23344971 buffets - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17345457-post18.html saved - http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...t+2010&ct=clnk http://bajan.files.wordpress.com/201...os-project.pdf FS NY > penthouse http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14144848-post12.html presidential vs floor below http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12298559-post34.html
Originally Posted by xracer
(Post 9194827)
I know the ex-GM of the FS Langkawi and he has told me that the average occupancy rate for the villas in 2006 was just over 85%...They are big money makers for the place and apparently, there is more demand than supply...this was true when the villas were pricing out at around $1200 per night
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/sto...tl&country=tha |
most of this is probably wrong, dont remember where i got it >
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
(Post 13988133)
aman did better >http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13610023-post102.html
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
(Post 13610023)
2000 - revenue $61MM ebit $30MM (ebit per room = $75K, vs $4K for FS)
1999 - revenue $50MM edit $15MM [ebit per room = $41K, vs $5.5K for FS]
Originally Posted by jja34-1
(Post 2677078)
Not sure how they manage to do it in the current market(possibly the very high rates and very dedicated following), but their economics are terrific. I know someone who has access to their balance sheet and let's just say this person is laughing all the way to the bank.
[This message has been edited by jja34-1 (edited 08-04-2003).] http://dlf.in/dlf/wcm/connect/793b31...&lmod=57769075 pages 179>189 include aman finances 1 lac/lakh inr = 100K inr = $2K substantial rounding > losses (seem huge :confused:) incl > $6mm - Bhutan Resorts Private Limited $4mm - Societe Nouvelle de L'Hotel Bora Bora $2mm - Tangalle Property (Private) Limted $1mm - P.T.Jawa Express Amanda Indah (Amanjiwo) - {as per IFRS) $1mm - Jackson Hole Holdings Limitd $1mm - NOH (Hotel) Private Limited [amanwella] profits incl > $1mm - Marrakech Investments Limitd i posted the report on amanzoe/residences (and parent development) in aman thread source i remember for 1999 >
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
(Post 13610023)
http://www.forbes.com/global/2000/0320/0306046a_print.html
1999 Amanresorts' sales $50 million. Operating profits $15 million occupancy 50% (the five Amanresorts in troubled Indonesia dragged the chain down from its usual 65% occupancy) $41,000 annual operating profit per room 365 rooms in 1999 16 times earnings, Amanresorts is worth $240 million. $590,000 a room. Four Seasons 11,088 rooms operating profit per room $5,500 1999 market values it at $162,500 a room http://www.scmp.com/article/328749/l...ys-hotel-chain net profit according to lee hing when they acquired 1998 $3.4mm 1999 $5.8mm 2000 $7.0mm (estimated) + lee hing (net >) 2001-2004 "loss making" 2005 $8.5mm loss 2006 $14.9mm loss http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22112212-post7.html 1995 $39mm sales $1.9mm promotional/marketing 2006 $86mm sales $3.0mm promotional/marketing quote margin http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19890344-post253.html DLF http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/20828264-post47.html 2007 ? 2008-2010 "outflow" 2011 "flow" 2012 "outflow" beginning of DLF disposal > sep 2009 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12413686-post879.html apr 2010 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19806862-post225.html may 2010 official http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19766594-post210.html http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l#post23344971 |
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