Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Luxury Hotels and Travel
Reload this Page >

recent FSNY numbers, ty warner "hits trouble"

recent FSNY numbers, ty warner "hits trouble"

Reply

Old Oct 30, 09, 12:40 am
  #1  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,510
recent FSNY numbers, ty warner "hits trouble"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...311322796.html
...Ty Warner has run into difficulty getting an extension on a $345 million securitized mortgage on four of his luxury hotels...

...four hotels have fallen short of the $44.6 million in annual cash flow...

In addition to the 368-room Four Seasons in Manhattan, the other hotels pledged as collateral for the mortgage are the 211-room Four Seasons Biltmore in Santa Barbara, Calif., the 38-room San Ysidro Ranch in Santa Barbara and the 38-room Las Ventanas resort in Mexico's Baja California.

...He paid $271 million for the New York Four Seasons in 1999 and spent $86 million renovating it...

Occupancy of the four hotels declined to 57.4% for the six months ended in June from 68.6% over the preceding six months, according to Realpoint. The hardest-hit resort of the four is the New York Four Seasons, which suffered a 20.4% decline in its revenue per available room to $635 in the 12 months that ended in June. In the same span, its occupancy declined to 58% from 72% and its cash flow declined to $14.7 million from $30.6 million...
of the many properties in the news, these are definitely some of the best regarded.

FSNY from $595 on weekends (DavidO also mentioned confirmed double upgrades a while ago)

FS santa barbara
from $250 for room after 3rd nt free
from $350 for suite after 3rd nt free & FSPP promo confirmed upgrade from dlx room

las ventanas is offering confirmed upgrades through dec 18, not sure if better than 3rd nt free

Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Oct 30, 09 at 12:47 am
Kagehitokiri is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 09, 4:08 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Chicago
Programs: American EXP & 3MM
Posts: 2,330
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...311322796.html
of the many properties in the news, these are definitely some of the best regarded.

FSNY from $595 on weekends (DavidO also mentioned confirmed double upgrades a while ago)

FS santa barbara
from $250 for room after 3rd nt free
from $350 for suite after 3rd nt free & FSPP promo confirmed upgrade from dlx room

las ventanas is offering confirmed upgrades through dec 18, not sure if better than 3rd nt free
It seems like these properties were slower to offer promotions and discounts.
mktozd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 09, 5:14 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF BayArea
Programs: Nothing worth mentioning
Posts: 2,223
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...311322796.html
of the many properties in the news, these are definitely some of the best regarded.

FSNY from $595 on weekends (DavidO also mentioned confirmed double upgrades a while ago)

FS santa barbara
from $250 for room after 3rd nt free
from $350 for suite after 3rd nt free & FSPP promo confirmed upgrade from dlx room

las ventanas is offering confirmed upgrades through dec 18, not sure if better than 3rd nt free
According to the 11/1/09 NYT, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/tr...r=1&ref=travel, the 4SCP is charging over $800 pn & no "deals" were offered. This poorly researched, not very accurate article could certainly hurt their business even more.
travelsavant is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 09, 7:25 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,436
I don't see how you can call the article "poorly researched, not very accurate"

The writer researched a one weeknight room rate for FSNY online and by calling the hotel directly.

The lower FSNY room rate that was quoted here is for weekend rate and some discount applies for reservation more than one night.

PS: By the way, there is no Four Seasons Central Park in NYC. I assume you meant FSNY when you wrote 4SCP.

Originally Posted by travelsavant View Post
According to the 11/1/09 NYT, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/tr...r=1&ref=travel, the 4SCP is charging over $800 pn & no "deals" were offered. This poorly researched, not very accurate article could certainly hurt their business even more.
broadwayboy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 09, 8:41 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF BayArea
Programs: Nothing worth mentioning
Posts: 2,223
Originally Posted by broadwayboy View Post
I don't see how you can call the article "poorly researched, not very accurate"

The writer researched a one weeknight room rate for FSNY online and by calling the hotel directly.

The lower FSNY room rate that was quoted here is for weekend rate and some discount applies for reservation more than one night.

PS: By the way, there is no Four Seasons Central Park in NYC. I assume you meant FSNY when you wrote 4SCP.
FSNY, excuse me. Mid-week room rates I've seen were $795 but maybe it was higher just that one night she was reviewing. Poorly researched because all Ms. Higgins did was try Expedia, hotel website (but not using any discount codes), calling hotels direct & "hoofing" it to a few. She even admitted that it had not occurred to her to apply her AAA membership discount when checking rates (which the Westin did for her.) Since all the hotels she wrote about were pretty much SO the night in question, the lesson learned was if you wait till the very last minute, hotels in NYC can be expensive & not inclined to make deals when full up. Wow, what a revelation.
travelsavant is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 09, 11:37 pm
  #6  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NCE - GVA - MUC
Programs: mosttraveledpeople.com
Posts: 492
Originally Posted by travelsavant View Post
FSNY, excuse me.

...

Since all the hotels she wrote about were pretty much SO the night in question, ...
Is the "Sold Out" an assumption you make, or did you do research on it?

So far, I find Ms Higgins' account more reliable than yours.

Quite an interesting NYT article in fact, just as Kage's original link to WSJ.
TrophyCollector is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 09, 11:47 pm
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,510
IMHO the bottom line is mainstream media has become a joke, and for luxury travel this forum is it.

related - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...oms-world.html

Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Nov 1, 09 at 11:58 pm
Kagehitokiri is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 2, 09, 2:40 pm
  #8  
In memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Near Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,987
Originally Posted by mktozd View Post
It seems like these properties were slower to offer promotions and discounts.
We had stay 2 nights get one free at the FSNY in May (nice room upgrade and free breakfast too) - and I'm sure that special started at least a few months before (if I recall the crisis discount thread correctly). I think the only conclusion you can draw from this article is you're not going to get any rate relief if you're staying for one weekday night.

IMO - one problem the FSNY has is that a lot of its clients are in financial services. And there is big pressure on many financial services firms not to spend this kind of money at hotels these days. Robyn
robyng is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 14, 09, 8:59 pm
  #9  
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 16,883
Based on the service screwups I experienced last week at the FS NY, it'll take more than deep discounts to get me back!
RichardInSF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 09, 1:16 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: none
Posts: 3,952
Originally Posted by RichardInSF View Post
Based on the service screwups I experienced last week at the FS NY, it'll take more than deep discounts to get me back!
If you post a report about what happened, I'd be interested in reading it.
WillTravel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 09, 1:10 am
  #11  
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 16,883
Originally Posted by WillTravel View Post
If you post a report about what happened, I'd be interested in reading it.
It's difficult to go into detail without inviting heated discussion, but the hotel did multiple small and medium things wrong during my stay. I also spotted a few signs of deferred maintenance.

Everyone in the hotel is willing to verbally apologize at the drop of a hat, but it's just words to them. They won't change procedures so that the problem doesn't recur. No apology fruit bowls either, those cost money!

This is so different than the service ethic I've seen at other FS hotels that I believe that the ownership fight involving this hotel (along with a few other FS hotels) could well be one possible cause. If so, it will eventually pass.
RichardInSF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 09, 2:25 am
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,510
re FSNY stay >
Originally Posted by RichardInSF View Post
It's difficult to go into detail without inviting heated discussion

I believe that the ownership fight involving this hotel (along with a few other FS hotels) could well be one possible cause. If so, it will eventually pass.
AFAIK no default (sometimes a negotiating tactic) or discussion of disputing mgmt contract.
...Ty Warner has run into difficulty getting an extension on a $345 million securitized mortgage on four of his luxury hotels...

...four hotels have fallen short of the $44.6 million in annual cash flow...
more info, although different number for loan >
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a4PUoE8hQiCQ
S&P placed 15 classes of bonds backed by a $425 million loan to TY Warner Hotels & Resorts on “credit watch with negative implications” after net cash flow from the properties fell 46 percent below S&P’s expectations...The loan is scheduled to mature in January 2010 and has one 12-month extension option remaining.
Net cash flow for the properties S&P placed on watch was $29.4 million in the 12 months through this past June, Standard & Poor’s said in its note.
$29.4mm ($14.7mm @ FSNY + $14.7mm @ other 3 properties )
instead of $44.6mm

any other recent stays at any of the properties?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ions_lifestyle
The Four Seasons New York recently dropped rates over the week of Christmas and New Year's. The cheapest room those weeks is $795 this year, instead of $855 last year. And the hotel will for the first time ever allow guests to combine two packages—one that offers free nights and another that gives a hotel credit—over peak winter holiday weeks. From Dec. 18 to Jan. 18, guests can get a third night free with stays of two nights or more, as well as up to $400 in a hotel credit per night....

Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Nov 16, 09 at 2:51 am
Kagehitokiri is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread