FRA - misssed connection, LH refuses hotel
Sep 4, 2009, 5:54 am
#46
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 347
I am utterly speechless. What complete and utter drivel. How can a responsible company come up with such grade 1 nonsense? Reg 261/2004 might not be of huge help here, as the OP did not stay in a hotel and did not therefore incur expenses he could claim back (unless perhaps you want to argue for a knd of constructive denied boarding, which may be something of a long shot).
However, there was a delay in the carriage of the passenger in relation to which the airline would be responsible under the Montreal Convention. As they have admitted, the 45 mins connecting time is too short. They could, therefore easily have avoided the damage by publishing realistic MCTs. The carrier and its servants and agents thus did not take all measures that could reasonably be required to avoid the damage and are responsible under Art 19 of the Montreal Convention for damage resulting from the delay in the carriage of the pax.
The OP's problem will lie in identifying and quantifying the damage.
However, there was a delay in the carriage of the passenger in relation to which the airline would be responsible under the Montreal Convention. As they have admitted, the 45 mins connecting time is too short. They could, therefore easily have avoided the damage by publishing realistic MCTs. The carrier and its servants and agents thus did not take all measures that could reasonably be required to avoid the damage and are responsible under Art 19 of the Montreal Convention for damage resulting from the delay in the carriage of the pax.
The OP's problem will lie in identifying and quantifying the damage.
The Montreal Convention claim presented in isolation would possibly remove England and Wales as a forum for proceedings ( more clearly available as a jurisdiction following the recent ECJ Rehder case judgment)-that somebody suggested upthread.
Interesting regarding the EC 261/2004 denied boarding alternative possibility-courts in Germany and the UK have recently found that a delay on the feeder flight connecting to another flight does not amount to a denied boarding on the second flight-but it sounds as if there wasnt a delay as such in the feeder flight-and it might be possible to distinguish these findings. It might rather revert to whether there had been reasonable grounds to deny the boarding.
Wouldnt one reasonable ground be for the carrier to wait for the connecting flight passenger's arrival-( presumably as the carrier had knowledge that this flight was not "delayed" but simply operating to published schedule)?
That argument perhaps might find some support from what the carrier has already said in the letter now delivered to the OP.
(Is it possible to argue that it is unreasonable for a carrier to accept boarding of the ex LHR "flight" in the first place with knowledge that the connection time is realistically unfeasible for a pax to onward connect with a flight whose feeder flight was not delayed?)
I wonder whether LH would wish to discuss such arguments before a judge-which might now include an EC 261/2004 cause of action.
The two causes of action (Montreal and EC 261/2004) might even be presented in the alternative.
Sep 4, 2009, 7:03 am
#47
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: FRA,HAM
Programs: M&M
Posts: 944
Since the launch of "Climb 2011", a program to safeguard the earnings of Lufthansa, things are getting worse day by day. Maybe the program should be better called "Close 2011".
Sep 5, 2009, 3:23 am
#48
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,257
Who on Earth would believe that the airport - other than providing transfer and screening infrastructure - would be in charge of getting pax from one flight to another?
And finally: what has the arrival at the transfer gate to do with the minimum check-in time???
In my experience, they never hold the next flight for you at FRA, even if you are SEN traveling in C, and even if it is the last flight. Load factors have made no difference to me. In both of my cases, the flight I missed was not full by any means.
I have found the whole system with misconnections in FRA to be a nightmare. I don't think the FM's even care. At least not in my case.
I have found the whole system with misconnections in FRA to be a nightmare. I don't think the FM's even care. At least not in my case.
I had a transfer desk youngster outright refusing me the transfer to another flight than the one I was booked on and which was canceled thanks to an LH strike, because some crazy law in DE indemnifies LH for such disruptions. I had to explain the knucklehead that I did not buy the ticket in DE and hence LH would very well be liable before he budged.
Sep 7, 2009, 7:16 am
#49
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Programs: LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 476
Interesting to find thread so alive...
Two words: Avoid FRA.
Works for me (unless I can't avoid FRA for scheduling reasons. Then, I try to make the best of it, but with the A300 gone from the TXL-FRA segment, it's bloody hard).
Two words: Avoid FRA.
Works for me (unless I can't avoid FRA for scheduling reasons. Then, I try to make the best of it, but with the A300 gone from the TXL-FRA segment, it's bloody hard).
Sep 7, 2009, 7:55 am
#50
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: FRA
Programs: LH, Avis, Hyatt, ...
Posts: 4,213
LH's repsonse is total BS. For short connections they usually send out PAs and in case of apron arrivals even transfer busses. Always wait somewhere with large signs showing flight numbers for those short connections. I've seen this very many times, often even when arriving on time.
In this case they failed for whatever reason and now try to blame the pax.
In this case they failed for whatever reason and now try to blame the pax.
Sep 7, 2009, 10:41 am
#51
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: Disgruntled HON**, Indifferent EK Gold, skeptical BA Silver
Posts: 1,734
From "Forum - Have your say" of this September's issue of Condé Nast Traveller:
Terminal Decline
We have just returned to Britain from South Africa flying business class with Lufthansa. We experienced poor service all round and Frankfurt is a dreadful hub airport, badly signposted and with long long walks between gates and several sets of security (each with long waits and rude staff). Poor and scarce lounge facilities added to the truly awful travel experience. As a small tip to fellow readers I can only say: please make this airport your last choice!
Female Reader, via e-mail
(wasn't me)
All I want to add: Wake up Fraport and LH. Help your guests better through the restructuring and rebuild of Terminal 1.
Sep 7, 2009, 10:48 am
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
Sep 8, 2009, 4:50 am
#53
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: exBER exBKK exLIS
Programs: lh sen
Posts: 368
You should have insisted to get a voucher for a hotel accomodation. If they would have denied you should have walked over to the Sheraton and took a room. Next day presenting the bill to LH.
Next time you are travelling on a short connecting time just go to any LH counter no matter if it is the right one or not and tell them that you are late and insist that they inform the flight manager of your connecting flight. Once you are in the system it is difficult to tell you bs like this time.
And make sure that you have luggage checked threw. Unloading is always a pain.
