Well, at that time the OP used the "overdraft", the rules did not say anything about the fact, that you have to pay it back. Let's call it an overdraft with unlimited maturity and zero % interest. With all due respect to LH and LH's right to change rules, I don't think that they can change these rules and let them become effective for people before the change.
So I'm with LHstatus here. LH should make sure that those freeloaders that have negative account balance have no chance to open a new account, but they shouldn't claim money for the miles! It was their fault, they have learnt from it. As a loyal LH flyer, I would be happy, if it were different. The money saved or claimed back could result in an (enhancement) improvement for us LH SEN ;) |
Originally Posted by bau31888
(Post 8477481)
With all due respect to LH and LH's right to change rules, I don't think that they can change these rules and let them become effective for people before the change.
1) M&M can change the program anytime. 2) If you don't like any new changes, you can leave the program (cancel your membership) immediately free of charge, and you'll have the right to use up any miles left on your account within a specified amount of time. 3) If you do not terminate your membership, you silently accept the changes and they apply to you from this point in time. |
Originally Posted by SebFra
(Post 8477316)
I think this thread is becoming quite funny.
Me, as a happy M&M member, I am happy to have the possibility, given by M&M, to overdraw my account if necessary. ... If you are completely unhappy with M&M, just change your program. You do not have to be a M&M member! ... But all in all, I am happy with M&M, as it makes travelling much easier and more convinient for me. ...... ...ways to beat the system (Welt Abo for 95 Euros receiving 15000 miles is "beating the system" in my mind). This makes fun, and is useful. |
Originally Posted by bau31888
(Post 8477481)
Well, at that time the OP used the "overdraft", the rules did not say anything about the fact, that you have to pay it back. Let's call it an overdraft with unlimited maturity and zero % interest. With all due respect to LH and LH's right to change rules, I don't think that
Originally Posted by flysurfer
(Post 8477504)
You might want to have a look at the T&C you accepted when joining M&M.
1) M&M can change the program anytime. And regarding the value of the miles: Sure, in the old days you got 1000 miles for a cheap T-Class ticket. Bythe way: I remember the very old days you got 1000 miles for a domestic C-Class ticket. You had a bigger benefit for a certain period. True. However, the "face value" of miles (= price LH sold them to consumers) was always in the range of 240 Euro per 10.000. But: Nobody (at least nobody informed) pays 240 Euro for 10.000 miles. Or? |
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
(Post 8478139)
LH did not change but just clarify the rules.
Overdraft was 150,000 miles and was reduced to 50,000 miles for SENs. I'd consider this a...change. And even more so, they announced that overdrafts need to be repaid and announced the price. If you didn't like it, you could have left the program by terminating your membership. Mileage Brokers certainly did, because they are ice-cold professionals w/o any bad conscience in this regard. See bertheike's post for details, I think he made this point of view quite clear. |
I'm not a lawyer and I don't support those, who have used the miles without intenting to pay them back. However, I still think that LH does not have the right to claim money or miles back. And I think that they won't try it seriously (i.e. to take this case to court).
Originally Posted by flysurfer
(Post 8477504)
You might want to have a look at the T&C you accepted when joining M&M.
|
Originally Posted by bau31888
(Post 8478230)
Well, not all T&C are valid...
Enjoy! |
Originally Posted by bau31888
(Post 8478230)
And I think that they won't try it seriously (i.e. to take this case to court)
|
Originally Posted by flysurfer
(Post 8478203)
Of course they changed the rules.
Overdraft was 150,000 miles and was reduced to 50,000 miles for SENs. I'd consider this a...change. And even more so, they announced that overdrafts need to be repaid and announced the price. We are talking about repayment of the mile-loan. In the old days, the T&C were silent about repayment. True. But again: The contract is under German law. And German law stipulates that a loan has to be repaid. Got it? There was no need to put in language that a loan has to be repaid. The change in the T&C was nothing but a clarification of what was part of the contract anyway. |
Originally Posted by bau31888
(Post 8478230)
And I think that they won't try it seriously (i.e. to take this case to court). Well, not all T&C are valid...
|
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
(Post 8478397)
For a game like this they would use a law firm like ours. Considering our cheapest hourly rate, two or three hours of work would easily consume the amount under dispute.
|
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
(Post 8478382)
We are not talking about the reduction of the credit line (150k to 50k).
We are talking about repayment of the mile-loan. In the old days, the T&C were silent about repayment. True. But again: The contract is under German law. And German law stipulates that a loan has to be repaid. Got it? There was no need to put in language that a loan has to be repaid. The change in the T&C was nothing but a clarification of what was part of the contract anyway. |
This thread is not funny, but some post are pure evidence of incapacity. :(
How pathetic must people be, who rent something and don't pay it back. :td: Even worse looking for arguments in order to blame the owner of the rented matter. :td: :td: Sad, what narrow minded people are around. :( |
Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
(Post 8478914)
How pathetic must people be, who rent something and don't pay it back. :td: Even worse looking for arguments in order to blame the owner of the rented matter. :td: :td:
Sad, what narrow minded people are around. :( |
Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
(Post 8478914)
This thread is not funny, but some post are pure evidence of incapacity. :(
How pathetic must people be, who rent something and don't pay it back. :td: Even worse looking for arguments in order to blame the owner of the rented matter. :td: :td: Sad, what narrow minded people are around. :( I can in this case understand though that LH feels entitlement....:o;) Cheers Thomas |
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