With the New Business Class, Why Would Anyone Pay to Fly in F

Old Oct 22, 03, 10:40 am
  #1  
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With the New Business Class, Why Would Anyone Pay to Fly in F

In my opinion, LH is well behind the curve in first class with 2-2 seating in F on its 747s. Individual suites have been the standard for several years now. The A340s are better with 1-2-1, but it is still a seat and not a suite.

Looking at the pictures of the new business class seats, they look pretty darn similar to the existing F seats, except they are not horizontal, although apparently flat.

Let's face it, the ground service on LH is virtually non-existent, and the lounges are all equally bad (and Senators get into the supposed F lounge anyway), so there is no practical difference between F and C on the ground.

In the air, other than a little more room in F, I don't see huge differences between the classes (I can buy a very large jar of caviar for the difference in fares).

So why would someone pay the extra money to fly in F when the new business is in service?

Or to put it another way, what is LH planning to do to keep F attractive and competitive, which it presently is not?
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Old Oct 22, 03, 11:18 am
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I think it would be safe to assume that LH executives realize this fact too! For this reason, I am assuming that the F product will be upgraded on LH in the near future.

In my opinion, they are doing BC class first since this is desperately in need of upgrading since other airlines are doing the same or have done so. I might get yelled at for saying this, but I also think LH is worrying about BC first since a lot of these passengers are paying passengers. What I mean by this is the fact that everytime I am in F it is all BC people with Upgrades and not paying F customers.....the revenue is the same.
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Old Oct 22, 03, 11:50 am
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The result of being "well behind the curve" in every class compared to other major airlines is, that LH is a financial healthy company. LH saved a lot of money in not upgrading C and F cabin, not putting PTV in Y, not enlarging and upgrading their awful lounges in FRA ....

It worked for a couple of years, but now it's time for LH to take some money out of the pocket and do someting about it.

[This message has been edited by daysleeper (edited 10-22-2003).]
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Old Oct 22, 03, 1:42 pm
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I still believe that LH offers a superb product in first class.

It-s not only the caviar ( yes, I am biased!); it's the quietness, the attentiveness and an incredible service.

I don't know what you refer to about "on the ground" services: limos maybe?

For me "ground services" icclude tempestive communication of delays/cancellations/reebokings by the LH staff. And in this they are truly good. They never let me down and re-arranged schedules and flights to take me wherever I needed to.

True first class lounges in FRA are not great - I believe due to the high volume of passenger going through? - I do prefer SK lounges ( and if you notice champagne has disappeared long ago from both of them).
BUT - F lounge in MUC Terminal 2 is very very pretty and as per food and upgraded drinks try the the lounges outside of Germany. They are generally better stocked and fancier.

All in all, on certain routes there still will be some demand for F class.
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Old Oct 22, 03, 3:05 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cricketrun:
True first class lounges in FRA are not great - I believe due to the high volume of passenger going through? - I do prefer SK lounges ( and if you notice champagne has disappeared long ago from both of them).</font>
happy to let you know LH SEN lounges in FRA and MUC still offer champaign. not on the buffet, but they serve it individually. just ask for it!

after some incidents which involved some flyertalkers they will not serve you a full bottle, they will only serve it by the glass. but you can have as many as you wish.

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Old Oct 22, 03, 3:51 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Uli:
... but you can have as many as you wish.

</font>
Uh-huh Uli, last time at FRA A28 SEN lounge they told me new policy is, its 2 glasses per person, but maybe that was just me comming from a wine sampling trip on an LH aircraft ...



[This message has been edited by paulusst (edited 10-22-2003).]
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Old Oct 23, 03, 12:33 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Uli:
happy to let you know LH SEN lounges in FRA and MUC still offer champaign. not on the buffet, but they serve it individually. just ask for it!

</font>
Same applies at least also for HAM and STR - the later still having self service up to roughly two month ago.

CHEERS

Thomas
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Old Oct 23, 03, 2:23 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cricketrun:
I still believe that LH offers a superb product in first class.

It-s not only the caviar ( yes, I am biased!); it's the quietness, the attentiveness and an incredible service.
</font>
Try SQ or CX. Then you'll see what a superb first class product is. LH isn't even close.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I don't know what you refer to about "on the ground" services: limos maybe?</font>
How about: "Ladies and gentlemen in the boarding area, start your engines! On your marks, get set, go board the aircraft! And the mad rush starts. First and business class passengers are free to just join in the scramble.

Care to guess which airline and airport I am referring to?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">All in all, on certain routes there still will be some demand for F class.</font>
There would be more demand if LH improved its product.

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Old Oct 23, 03, 6:58 am
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If they´re planning to upgrade the F class cabin they should look at EK´s new First...
http://www.emirates.com/a340/homeIntro.asp?menuSelect=1
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Old Oct 23, 03, 7:21 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Always Flyin:
How about: "Ladies and gentlemen in the boarding area, start your engines! On your marks, get set, go board the aircraft! And the mad rush starts. First and business class passengers are free to just join in the scramble.

Care to guess which airline and airport I am referring to?
</font>
Which is what I was referring to in another thread, but nobody seemed to agree with me .

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tim2008:
If they´re planning to upgrade the F class cabin they should look at EK´s new First...
http://www.emirates.com/a340/homeIntro.asp?menuSelect=1
</font>
Wow. I would like to try that!

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Old Oct 23, 03, 7:33 am
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It seems EK bought all the stuff Airbus had on offer:

http://www.airbus.com/product/a330_a340_comfort.asp

BTW, I would fly F over C simply because of the food... in LH money is not as much of an issue concerning food in F.

Ofcourse food in EK is a different matter, but we are not talking about that!

Regards Oliver
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Old Oct 23, 03, 12:16 pm
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Uli,

thanks a lot for the tip!
I will definitely go and ask for my glass of champagne next time around. By the way i love those steuben glasses ( I believe I have 3 of them at home, but that's another story - oooops!).
Funnlily here in ERW LH sen go and get the champagne in F class lounge, grab a dish with parma ham and then move to SK business lounge next door for food and decor. Kind of "best of two worlds"...

Always Flyin

I flew SQ first only once and I found it very similar ad LH. True the seats are different and the screens bigger. For the rest I had my private player in the LH seat and It si good for me. I regularly go to the movies therefore even on SQ I almost saw everything and for the rest I have my own gameboy ( and I am 33, God bless) and my own Ipod and the ton of magazines, so no bigger demands.
What I found better on LH is the fact the the F/A were genuinely attentive, fun and friendly. When I complimented them for the serice they returned the compliment saying it was not common to have young and friendly customers in F - apprently they take themselves extremely seriously.

True, the boarding could go "on order" but in MUC and FRA you have a separate bridge for long haul where to board the aircraft. I noticed that I tend to arrive late at the gate ( you get called late from the lounge) and as the power of the "red" boarding card does wonders! You just cut the line and enter the plane.
My feeling si that the crew "expects" F and C class passengers to be last on board ( welcome drinks in C starts when pretty much everybody is on).

I am not really sure they will upgrade F class ( seeing how long it took to develop the latest product, problems with the chairs etc etc).
What I do hope is a better C meal service ( OFF withg the tray) and REAL magazines ( they weight a ton when you carry them from home)
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Old Oct 24, 03, 2:40 am
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Tim, thanx for the EK link. Amazing!

I must say this seems to be a product where I might consider really paying an F fare for. Otherwise F class only is considered on RTW's or awards...

BTW: EK has some really good fares to offer...! Hmm...
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Old Oct 24, 03, 4:53 am
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wow!
i want to have EK F in LH. pleassssssssssse!
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Old Oct 24, 03, 6:16 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Uli:
wow!
i want to have EK F in LH. pleassssssssssse!
</font>
EK F looks very, very good. However, the doors look to be only about 1.4m high; when the website seems to give the impression of total privacy.

As soon as EK join an alliance - EK F MR!

Regards,
Alex
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