New First from 2008!
#31
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN+, UA 1k, AA Plat, Solitaire PPS, BA Silver, :rolleyes:, :eek:
Posts: 2,679
So you believe to be in a position where you can judge this? If you can charge hourly rates in excess of $700 who will care for those $ 6 - 9k necessary for paid F once a week or once a fortnight? Travel costs even in F are therefore below 20% of your gross income - employee happiness is a much bigger value in this context, IMHO. Not to forget you can work in F (instead of Y) - FRA-ORD is approx 9 hrs, 9 x $700 = $ 6.300 which actually pays for the trip.
IMHO one has to be very careful abt. making statements what makes economic sense. In capitalism almost everything which does not make economic sense will be flattened out in the long-run (O.K., German politicians are the exception to this rule ). And don't you forget: Prawns which have been catched by a German fisherboat in the North Sea are being flewn to Moroc where they are shelled. Afterwards they are flown back to Germany. So, as long as this makes economic sense I feel perfectly allright flying F...
IMHO one has to be very careful abt. making statements what makes economic sense. In capitalism almost everything which does not make economic sense will be flattened out in the long-run (O.K., German politicians are the exception to this rule ). And don't you forget: Prawns which have been catched by a German fisherboat in the North Sea are being flewn to Moroc where they are shelled. Afterwards they are flown back to Germany. So, as long as this makes economic sense I feel perfectly allright flying F...
#32
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tbingen, Germany
Posts: 2,732
Cheers
Thomas
#33
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: MUC (home), DUS (office), XXX (customer)
Programs: LH, AB, SPG, CC, Sixt, EC
Posts: 6,334
They don't fly them to Moroc... They are on cooled trucks with two drivers from Germany via Spain and then on the ferry to Moroc... Trust me, they are definetely not flown...
#34
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN+, UA 1k, AA Plat, Solitaire PPS, BA Silver, :rolleyes:, :eek:
Posts: 2,679
Anyway, also with prawns being trucked to Moroc I feel perfectly O.K. in F.
#35
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: currently CGN
Programs: LH FTL
Posts: 140
May be I'm watching too much N24
#36
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,253
RyanAir and still no PTV ...
service!
I mean, I'd fly overhead for that kind of bribe.
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505
#38
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN+, UA 1k, AA Plat, Solitaire PPS, BA Silver, :rolleyes:, :eek:
Posts: 2,679
When would you like to?
#39
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: FRA
Programs: LH, Avis, Hyatt, ...
Posts: 4,213
Calculation can be easy:
1) Assume 12 flights p.a.
2) Assume 12x8500=102000 in F versus 12x5800=69600 in C, Difference is 32400 on a basic point of view.
3a) Received M&M miles in C is 405600 (incl. LH CC VISA payment)
3b) Received M&M miles in F is 572400 (incl. LH CC VISA payment)
3c) Value of 166800 additional M&M miles (aka 1.2 free F flights)
3d) Value of 134400 additional status miles. This may help to keep HON status and so gives 8 additional eVoucher all 2 years, 6[reniew]+4[birthday, twice]-2[SEN reniew].
4a) Received PPB miles in C is 98400
4b) Received PPB miles in F is 223200
4c) Value of additional 124800 PPB miles (=1.2 more free flights in F, or ~5 F upgrades).
The advantages from 3) and 4) are difficult to transfer into monetary numbers. But just 2 free flights in F would be 17000 and 4 upgrades would be another ~6000. Admittedly, this is a very rough calculation. But reducing the original difference of 32400 by 17000 and 6000 ends up with 9400 only. Wich is company profit BTW, so can be reduced roughly by 55% tax to get the real net difference: 4230
So this is just 176 more per F segment flown. I think this is worth it.
I know, this is a one-sided calculation. But it should show at least, that fares are not the only point of view. There is even more behind under the constraint of tax laws in Germany and the possibility to use earned M&M miles for private travels. Which is additional net benefit of the job. F fares on business trips however are always costs and reduce company profit (i.e. taxes to pay).
#40
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN+, UA 1k, AA Plat, Solitaire PPS, BA Silver, :rolleyes:, :eek:
Posts: 2,679
But even the difference of 176 can be justified more: After crawling out of a 747 after a ~11 hrs SFO-FRA in F you can go directly to your next client being 100% fit. 11hrs in (old, on that route) C might need one or two hours of "personal refurbishment". Now I do believe most of us here can make more than 176 in two hours....
Not to forget that your company may sell the F PJs on the secondary market - bringing F fares even closer to C fares. @:-)
#41
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: FRA
Programs: LH FTL, BA Blue, UA Corpse
Posts: 1,423
#42
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: FRA
Programs: LH, Avis, Hyatt, ...
Posts: 4,213
Ok, let's see:
176
- 95 (sold LH F PJ on ebay)
- 100 (sold advice to fly cheap F on ebay)
=====
-19 total
So, I made it to the win zone finally... ^
Come on, more optimization recommendations, please.
It makes more and more economic sense to fly F. ^
176
- 95 (sold LH F PJ on ebay)
- 100 (sold advice to fly cheap F on ebay)
=====
-19 total
So, I made it to the win zone finally... ^
Come on, more optimization recommendations, please.
It makes more and more economic sense to fly F. ^
#43
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: FRA
Programs: LH, Avis, Hyatt, ...
Posts: 4,213
I will keep in mind your offer to work for me as a tax advisor. Who knows, when my current two tax advisors will finally give up.
#44
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN+, UA 1k, AA Plat, Solitaire PPS, BA Silver, :rolleyes:, :eek:
Posts: 2,679
^
I'll try that on our travel management guys - I guess up until now they didn't realize that flying F actually saves money over flying C. So finally we have arrived with a solution to structuring the travel department as profit center and not as a loss center. ^
Greater employee satisfaction and lower cost at the same time. WHOW! What more can a company want?
I'll try that on our travel management guys - I guess up until now they didn't realize that flying F actually saves money over flying C. So finally we have arrived with a solution to structuring the travel department as profit center and not as a loss center. ^
Greater employee satisfaction and lower cost at the same time. WHOW! What more can a company want?
#45
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: bella italia
Programs: LH HON, AF FB Platinum
Posts: 633
Just my two cents: I am not unhappy with LH's F.
Okay, the IFE ist a little yesterday, but it works good.
Okay, there could be a better premium champagne, but what they offer is not too bad.
The seats are fine and comfortable and I like the 83 C always I'm using F.
And then there is the real wonderful service. I never had bas staff in F. And sometimes I've got handwritten personal welcome om my menu card.
I had some good experience from Germany via Dubai to Tokyo with Emirates. But it wont make me change forever.
So I think I'll be a loyal LH customer till 2011 and then retire.
Salve Luigi
Okay, the IFE ist a little yesterday, but it works good.
Okay, there could be a better premium champagne, but what they offer is not too bad.
The seats are fine and comfortable and I like the 83 C always I'm using F.
And then there is the real wonderful service. I never had bas staff in F. And sometimes I've got handwritten personal welcome om my menu card.
I had some good experience from Germany via Dubai to Tokyo with Emirates. But it wont make me change forever.
So I think I'll be a loyal LH customer till 2011 and then retire.
Salve Luigi