New First from 2008!

Old Dec 20, 2006, 1:48 am
  #31  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FRA
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Originally Posted by SMK77
As there is no economic sense whatsoever to pay for a ticket in F, ...
So you believe to be in a position where you can judge this? If you can charge hourly rates in excess of $700 who will care for those $ 6 - 9k necessary for paid F once a week or once a fortnight? Travel costs even in F are therefore below 20% of your gross income - employee happiness is a much bigger value in this context, IMHO. Not to forget you can work in F (instead of Y) - FRA-ORD is approx 9 hrs, 9 x $700 = $ 6.300 which actually pays for the trip.

IMHO one has to be very careful abt. making statements what makes economic sense. In capitalism almost everything which does not make economic sense will be flattened out in the long-run (O.K., German politicians are the exception to this rule ). And don't you forget: Prawns which have been catched by a German fisherboat in the North Sea are being flewn to Moroc where they are shelled. Afterwards they are flown back to Germany. So, as long as this makes economic sense I feel perfectly allright flying F...
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 3:18 am
  #32  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tbingen, Germany
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Originally Posted by weero
Are you raid in my territory, I can enter yours :
The old LH F seat is much more snuggly than the UA F suite.
The UA seat is to hard and rigid for my taste.
I am certainly with you on this one - for all the F suites there are - NH being the exception - they tend to be extremely narrow in the shoulder and feet area - meaning difficult to turn or even sleep on your tummy - which IMHO is easily done on the old LH seat.

Cheers

Thomas
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 5:35 am
  #33  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by Triple3
And don't you forget: Prawns which have been catched by a German fisherboat in the North Sea are being flewn to Moroc where they are shelled. Afterwards they are flown back to Germany. So, as long as this makes economic sense I feel perfectly allright flying F...
They don't fly them to Moroc... They are on cooled trucks with two drivers from Germany via Spain and then on the ferry to Moroc... Trust me, they are definetely not flown...
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 5:54 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by supermasterphil
They don't fly them to Moroc... They are on cooled trucks with two drivers from Germany via Spain and then on the ferry to Moroc... Trust me, they are definetely not flown...
If you say so ... might be I mixed something up here.

Anyway, also with prawns being trucked to Moroc I feel perfectly O.K. in F.
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 6:04 am
  #35  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by Triple3
Prawns which have been catched by a German fisherboat in the North Sea are being flewn to Moroc where they are shelled. Afterwards they are flown back to Germany.
I'm not an expert but pretty sure that they go by truck aswell! A (very good) machine for shelling is still more expensive.
May be I'm watching too much N24
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 6:31 am
  #36  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by SMK77
There are no pictures - just the announcement that one of the future topics released on the page will deal with both the new First and the new Economy...
Meaning that there will be new cloth on the now 29" pitch seats refurbished from
RyanAir and still no PTV ...
Originally Posted by Triple3
..If you can charge hourly rates in excess of $700 who will care for those $ 6 - 9k necessary for paid F once a week...
If they shell you out $700 per hour, you should be happy in any class of
service!
I mean, I'd fly overhead for that kind of bribe.
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 6:53 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by weero
If they shell you out $700 per hour, you should be happy in any class of
service!
I mean, I'd fly overhead for that kind of bribe.
Perhaps we can all chip in to the cost and actually watch you board your overhead bin !
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 6:56 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by weero
If they shell you out $700 per hour, you should be happy in any class of service! I mean, I'd fly overhead for that kind of bribe.
Deal made. You'll get $700 and for that you'll spend 1 hr in the overhead bin of a fully laden a/c. And there will be no bin blocking for you.

When would you like to?
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 7:35 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by SMK77
As there is no economic sense whatsoever to pay for a ticket in F, I guess that what attracts people most is quite simple: (...)
I disagree with you here and agree with triple3.

Calculation can be easy:

1) Assume 12 flights p.a.
2) Assume 12x8500=102000 in F versus 12x5800=69600 in C, Difference is 32400 on a basic point of view.

3a) Received M&M miles in C is 405600 (incl. LH CC VISA payment)
3b) Received M&M miles in F is 572400 (incl. LH CC VISA payment)
3c) Value of 166800 additional M&M miles (aka 1.2 free F flights)
3d) Value of 134400 additional status miles. This may help to keep HON status and so gives 8 additional eVoucher all 2 years, 6[reniew]+4[birthday, twice]-2[SEN reniew].

4a) Received PPB miles in C is 98400
4b) Received PPB miles in F is 223200
4c) Value of additional 124800 PPB miles (=1.2 more free flights in F, or ~5 F upgrades).

The advantages from 3) and 4) are difficult to transfer into monetary numbers. But just 2 free flights in F would be 17000 and 4 upgrades would be another ~6000. Admittedly, this is a very rough calculation. But reducing the original difference of 32400 by 17000 and 6000 ends up with 9400 only. Wich is company profit BTW, so can be reduced roughly by 55% tax to get the real net difference: 4230

So this is just 176 more per F segment flown. I think this is worth it.

I know, this is a one-sided calculation. But it should show at least, that fares are not the only point of view. There is even more behind under the constraint of tax laws in Germany and the possibility to use earned M&M miles for private travels. Which is additional net benefit of the job. F fares on business trips however are always costs and reduce company profit (i.e. taxes to pay).
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 8:55 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
Wich is company profit BTW, so can be reduced roughly by 55% tax to get the real net difference: 4230
I do recommend you improve your corporate tax rate. @:-) 55% is pretty bad IMHO. PM me if you need a tax advisor.

Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
So this is just 176 more per F segment flown. I think this is worth it.
^ Agreed upon, as LH F is not that bad.

But even the difference of 176 can be justified more: After crawling out of a 747 after a ~11 hrs SFO-FRA in F you can go directly to your next client being 100% fit. 11hrs in (old, on that route) C might need one or two hours of "personal refurbishment". Now I do believe most of us here can make more than 176 in two hours....

Not to forget that your company may sell the F PJs on the secondary market - bringing F fares even closer to C fares. @:-)
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 10:03 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
So this is just 176 more per F segment flown. I think this is worth it.
SOG, you should sell your advice on ebay: "Fly First Class for an additional 176, absolutely legal !"
You even may deduct the profit from the sale on ebay and you get even closer to Zero
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 10:21 am
  #42  
 
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Ok, let's see:

176
- 95 (sold LH F PJ on ebay)
- 100 (sold advice to fly cheap F on ebay)
=====
-19 total

So, I made it to the win zone finally... ^

Come on, more optimization recommendations, please.

It makes more and more economic sense to fly F. ^
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 10:28 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Triple3
I do recommend you improve your corporate tax rate. @:-) 55% is pretty bad IMHO. PM me if you need a tax advisor.
Agreed. ^ 55% is just the current common average value used for incorporations and worked the right way in my calculations.

I will keep in mind your offer to work for me as a tax advisor. Who knows, when my current two tax advisors will finally give up.
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 10:31 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
It makes more and more economic sense to fly F. ^
^

I'll try that on our travel management guys - I guess up until now they didn't realize that flying F actually saves money over flying C. So finally we have arrived with a solution to structuring the travel department as profit center and not as a loss center. ^

Greater employee satisfaction and lower cost at the same time. WHOW! What more can a company want?
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Old Dec 20, 2006, 10:32 am
  #45  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: bella italia
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Just my two cents: I am not unhappy with LH's F.
Okay, the IFE ist a little yesterday, but it works good.
Okay, there could be a better premium champagne, but what they offer is not too bad.
The seats are fine and comfortable and I like the 83 C always I'm using F.
And then there is the real wonderful service. I never had bas staff in F. And sometimes I've got handwritten personal welcome om my menu card.
I had some good experience from Germany via Dubai to Tokyo with Emirates. But it wont make me change forever.
So I think I'll be a loyal LH customer till 2011 and then retire.
Salve Luigi
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