Taxes of Award tickets higher than total of paid ticket
Nov 24, 2006, 5:23 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: M&M FTL (*Silver), KLM/AF blue
Posts: 343
Taxes of Award tickets higher than total of paid ticket
Hi Guys
O.K. I know this an extreme case, but still I think this is quite illustrative:
I booked a flight BSL - BRU - BSL in April and got the (read deal) price of
38 CHF plus 61 taxes. So I paid CHF 99.
Just out of curiousity I tried to book the same flight with M&M miles. I would have paid CHF 124 in taxes PLUS 28,000 Miles.
So the total paid my paid ticket was cheaper than the taxes of the "free" ticket...
Hmm...
O.K. I know this an extreme case, but still I think this is quite illustrative:
I booked a flight BSL - BRU - BSL in April and got the (read deal) price of
38 CHF plus 61 taxes. So I paid CHF 99.
Just out of curiousity I tried to book the same flight with M&M miles. I would have paid CHF 124 in taxes PLUS 28,000 Miles.
So the total paid my paid ticket was cheaper than the taxes of the "free" ticket...
Hmm...
Nov 24, 2006, 5:43 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: MUC/LAX/SMV
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Posts: 12,406
Why is this extreme? It's been like that for quite some time.
Since nobody is forcing you and me to use our miles to make a really bad deal, I don't see a problem here (yet).
I'm actually quite happy that I can get at least some paid flights considerably cheaper than comparable award flights. Why? Because, due to liquidity reasons, money is easier to come by than miles. And because money generates interest and miles do not, I'd rather designate a certain amount of money to my travel budget than a certain amount of miles. Unfortunately, money isn't a reasonable currency for longhaul flights in F and C, that's why I have to maintain a huge pile of miles in order to "pay" for longhaul travel, while I will happily fund discounted shorthaul flights in coach with my CC account.
Since nobody is forcing you and me to use our miles to make a really bad deal, I don't see a problem here (yet).
I'm actually quite happy that I can get at least some paid flights considerably cheaper than comparable award flights. Why? Because, due to liquidity reasons, money is easier to come by than miles. And because money generates interest and miles do not, I'd rather designate a certain amount of money to my travel budget than a certain amount of miles. Unfortunately, money isn't a reasonable currency for longhaul flights in F and C, that's why I have to maintain a huge pile of miles in order to "pay" for longhaul travel, while I will happily fund discounted shorthaul flights in coach with my CC account.
Nov 24, 2006, 7:03 am
#3
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: LH Miles&More Senator (Star Alliance Gold)
Posts: 224
I have seen this many times before too and was going to post about it too.
If you book a normal flight BSL - BRU - BSL and the so called taxes are 61CHF then how can it be 124CHF in taxes on a an award ticket. This is over double the amount !!! So surely we are getting ripped of paying 124CHF in taxes !!!
Should there be a court case for not advertising correctly ?
If you book a normal flight BSL - BRU - BSL and the so called taxes are 61CHF then how can it be 124CHF in taxes on a an award ticket. This is over double the amount !!! So surely we are getting ripped of paying 124CHF in taxes !!!
Should there be a court case for not advertising correctly ?
Originally Posted by Key8
Hi Guys
O.K. I know this an extreme case, but still I think this is quite illustrative:
I booked a flight BSL - BRU - BSL in April and got the (read deal) price of
38 CHF plus 61 taxes. So I paid CHF 99.
Just out of curiousity I tried to book the same flight with M&M miles. I would have paid CHF 124 in taxes PLUS 28,000 Miles.
So the total paid my paid ticket was cheaper than the taxes of the "free" ticket...
Hmm...
O.K. I know this an extreme case, but still I think this is quite illustrative:
I booked a flight BSL - BRU - BSL in April and got the (read deal) price of
38 CHF plus 61 taxes. So I paid CHF 99.
Just out of curiousity I tried to book the same flight with M&M miles. I would have paid CHF 124 in taxes PLUS 28,000 Miles.
So the total paid my paid ticket was cheaper than the taxes of the "free" ticket...
Hmm...
Dec 2, 2006, 1:01 pm
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Posts: 10,163
If you find the time for a law suit on 100 Euro, do it....
Anyway, I am somehow surprised.
The taxes on an LX flight on the direct service BSL - BRU - BSL for any paid ticket are as follows:
Tax: Swiss Airport Tax CHF 8.85
Tax: Swiss Airport Passenger Security & Noise Charge CHF 15.50
Tax: Belgium Embarkation Tax €22.44
This adds up to 61 CHF. On an award ticket it adds up to 78,13 Euro, which is close to 124 CHF. So we are definitly talking about a difference of 63,00 CHF in taxes and I do not have any idea of the background. The OP is right: His deal included all taxes applicable for the flight - so what is the 63 Fraenkli meant for?
Anyway, I am somehow surprised.
The taxes on an LX flight on the direct service BSL - BRU - BSL for any paid ticket are as follows:
Tax: Swiss Airport Tax CHF 8.85
Tax: Swiss Airport Passenger Security & Noise Charge CHF 15.50
Tax: Belgium Embarkation Tax €22.44
This adds up to 61 CHF. On an award ticket it adds up to 78,13 Euro, which is close to 124 CHF. So we are definitly talking about a difference of 63,00 CHF in taxes and I do not have any idea of the background. The OP is right: His deal included all taxes applicable for the flight - so what is the 63 Fraenkli meant for?
Dec 2, 2006, 2:02 pm
#5
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,555
If you find the time for a law suit on 100 Euro, do it....
Anyway, I am somehow surprised.
The taxes on an LX flight on the direct service BSL - BRU - BSL for any paid ticket are as follows:
Tax: Swiss Airport Tax CHF 8.85
Tax: Swiss Airport Passenger Security & Noise Charge CHF 15.50
Tax: Belgium Embarkation Tax €22.44
This adds up to 61 CHF. On an award ticket it adds up to 78,13 Euro, which is close to 124 CHF. So we are definitly talking about a difference of 63,00 CHF in taxes and I do not have any idea of the background. The OP is right: His deal included all taxes applicable for the flight - so what is the 63 Fraenkli meant for?
Anyway, I am somehow surprised.
The taxes on an LX flight on the direct service BSL - BRU - BSL for any paid ticket are as follows:
Tax: Swiss Airport Tax CHF 8.85
Tax: Swiss Airport Passenger Security & Noise Charge CHF 15.50
Tax: Belgium Embarkation Tax €22.44
This adds up to 61 CHF. On an award ticket it adds up to 78,13 Euro, which is close to 124 CHF. So we are definitly talking about a difference of 63,00 CHF in taxes and I do not have any idea of the background. The OP is right: His deal included all taxes applicable for the flight - so what is the 63 Fraenkli meant for?
I asked SEN line and they told me that fuel surcharges are higher for award tix than paid ones.
Dec 2, 2006, 2:30 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: unique
Programs: half orphan (ie. STC before, but not really happy with M&M)
Posts: 110
Dec 2, 2006, 2:30 pm
#7
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This has to be a LX specific problem.
On LH, award tickets are actually cheaper than paid tickets.
Case in point:
You want to fly MUC-LAX-MUC from 07APR to 16APR.
You want to nonstop and in F, so LH452/453 it is.
When booking that trip online today on lufthansa.com, you have 2 options:
a) pay with money:
EUR 8,799.00 (ticket)
+ EUR 182.22 (taxes)
+ EUR 15.00 (TSC)
= EUR 8,996.22
b) pay with M&M miles:
140,000 miles (ticket) (actually 112,000, as I'm a US resident using the X-mas voucher)
+ EUR 156.74 (taxes)
+ EUR 0.00 (no TSC for award tickets)
= EUR 156.74 plus 112,000 miles
Option b) looks more favorable, expecially as the 112,000 miles can be accumulated for free with 4 free T-Mobile contracts (=120,000 miles), and the tax can easily be paid for by selling the 4 free cell phones that go along with them. You'll still have about EUR 350.00 in cash (and 8,000 miles) left to spend otherwise.
Hence, flying BSL-BRU-BSL in Y on LX metal and paying for it with miles sounds like a really, really, and I mean REALLY bad idea. Actually, it's such a bad idea that LH/LX has a responsibility to drive people away from considering it, hence maybe the higher taxes.
On LH, award tickets are actually cheaper than paid tickets.
Case in point:
You want to fly MUC-LAX-MUC from 07APR to 16APR.
You want to nonstop and in F, so LH452/453 it is.
When booking that trip online today on lufthansa.com, you have 2 options:
a) pay with money:
EUR 8,799.00 (ticket)
+ EUR 182.22 (taxes)
+ EUR 15.00 (TSC)
= EUR 8,996.22
b) pay with M&M miles:
140,000 miles (ticket) (actually 112,000, as I'm a US resident using the X-mas voucher)
+ EUR 156.74 (taxes)
+ EUR 0.00 (no TSC for award tickets)
= EUR 156.74 plus 112,000 miles
Option b) looks more favorable, expecially as the 112,000 miles can be accumulated for free with 4 free T-Mobile contracts (=120,000 miles), and the tax can easily be paid for by selling the 4 free cell phones that go along with them. You'll still have about EUR 350.00 in cash (and 8,000 miles) left to spend otherwise.
Hence, flying BSL-BRU-BSL in Y on LX metal and paying for it with miles sounds like a really, really, and I mean REALLY bad idea. Actually, it's such a bad idea that LH/LX has a responsibility to drive people away from considering it, hence maybe the higher taxes.
Dec 2, 2006, 3:17 pm
#9
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,555
"
I have made a full inquiry with Our Miles and More desk in Germany and Swiss .
The amount of the fuel charge is 160usd for this award ticket .
Swiss Has 2 kinds of fuel charges, one is for revenue ticket ( paid ticket ) and second for bonus ticket ( fare paid by miles )
This policy explain the difference of usd 20 in the taxes between the 2 tickets
"
Dec 2, 2006, 3:52 pm
#10
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Obvioulsy LX charges NO fuel surcharge on the paid ticket BSL - BRU - BSL (put include it in the fare). If this is true, they invented an extra "tax" for award tickets and I believe this would be against the rules....
Dec 2, 2006, 3:59 pm
#11
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Indeed. Basically, it's a cash surcharge applicable to LX operated award flights. Totally inappropriate, of course, but then again, even an ultrapremium carrier like UA demands an extra charge for award bookings (at least for those booked on short notice) that is only waived for 1K members.
Nov 30, 2014, 3:13 am
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,229
A quick example what LH/MM think of their customers
Rant start
For the fun of it I looked up a redemption ticket from HAM to BSL.
HAM to BSL 10th of Dec LX1033
BSL to HAM 16th of Dec LX1038
with the Economy Saver that would be 10.000 miles & Euro 124.04.
Booking directly with LX the exact same flights would only be Euro 82.04.
IMHO this just shows what LH/MM think of their customers: idiots!?
If the flights from BSL / GVA weren`t so cheap, compared to the ones from ZRH and the odd AB prices, I would have switched a while ago.
Point is: I start to really despise them.
Rant over
For the fun of it I looked up a redemption ticket from HAM to BSL.
HAM to BSL 10th of Dec LX1033
BSL to HAM 16th of Dec LX1038
with the Economy Saver that would be 10.000 miles & Euro 124.04.
Booking directly with LX the exact same flights would only be Euro 82.04.
IMHO this just shows what LH/MM think of their customers: idiots!?
If the flights from BSL / GVA weren`t so cheap, compared to the ones from ZRH and the odd AB prices, I would have switched a while ago.
Point is: I start to really despise them.
Rant over
Nov 30, 2014, 3:58 am
#13
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,667
Old -- but I feel and agree with you.
And before the "but a M&M ticket is flexible" fraction chimes in: a) no, not in this case, and b) it doesn't matter, if you don't want or need flexibility.
HTB.
And before the "but a M&M ticket is flexible" fraction chimes in: a) no, not in this case, and b) it doesn't matter, if you don't want or need flexibility.
HTB.
Nov 30, 2014, 4:04 am
#14
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Posts: 4,783
@SwissCircle:
You are 10 years late - I am sorry, but it is known for quite some time that M&M is not a good deal for pure Y redemptions.
Fare promotions are often cheaper than the "surcharges" for mileage redemption.
If you dont like it, try another FFP!
You are 10 years late - I am sorry, but it is known for quite some time that M&M is not a good deal for pure Y redemptions.
Fare promotions are often cheaper than the "surcharges" for mileage redemption.
If you dont like it, try another FFP!
