LH abandons me in FRA
 

Always knew that the introduction of HON would hurt SEN but there was always
a subtle line between hurting and killing.
Until yesterday my worst LH exposure ever.
Arrived after a peaceful flight into FRA, uneventful landing, no long queue at
the new and unnecessary security. Though upon entering the lounge, I find my
ongoing flight to AMS being cancelled. Lounge warden does not even want to
let me into the lounge but commands me to go to the transfer desk and beg for
a new flight. Reluctantly waddle to the desk, just to find it with the usual
700 meter long queue and no *G desk open.
Go back to the same lounge and - still politely - tell her that transfer desk is
no option and demand that I be put on the next flight on any carrier right
now. She wastes 5 minutes - complaining about other pax having needs
too - typing in something that feels like someone playing Pacman or Doom.
Only to return that she could not determine fare base and other blah, blah of my
ticket. I get a bit more graphic by telling her that she doesn't have to - I had
a boarding pass. Determining random ticket codes, my blood type, preferences
etc. is far from necessary.
She outright refuses to do anything further for me and asks me to leave
the lounge as "I would no longer have a valid BP". Instead of teaching her the
rules of lounge access, I wander off. But I don't surrender my BP either
which she demands.
Next lounge dragon is friendlier but equally helpless. Insists that I MUST go
see the transfer desk. I demand to talk to the SEN desk but we don't get
through.
100 mins later well spent in the queue of the transfer desk, I get the same
answer from the placebo ticketing agent at the desk: she could not dertemine
the type of my ticket and hence there's nothing she could do ... I should
see the lounge...
I tell her to give up, release my luggage so I could pick it up and yes, please
pay me 400 Euros for the 4 1/2 hours LH denied boarding to me. She tells
me that there would be no compensation as it would be weather related
'delays'. I make it very clear that we don't talk about a delay as otherwise
my BP would still be good. Plus KLM flies to AMS with no cancellation.
She at least surrenders a printout that they could not rebook me but she
could not give me the 400 Euros as she would not obtain any authorisation.
She also could not find out how to release my luggage (great team you have
at those dummy-transfer desks LH ^ ).
Back in the lounge, the next warden first firmly told me that my ticket would
be obscure (sure is, bought it directly from the airline) and they could not do
anything.. I repeat my demands: surrender luggage plus 400 Euros for holding
me hostage in this dreadful airport. The Euro thingy makes her more cooperative.
She makes many, many phone calls to different desks but at no avail. It is
now 6 hours pas my original depature and I become quite determined that
I don't want her to tell me any more weird fantasies or lies about the origin
of my ticket but to release my luggage and pay me 600 Euros - plus no
halucinations about the weather. She calls a supervisor and tells me that
they had no authority to pay me .. I would have to see the ticket desk.
Only after getting very harsh, she provides me printout that they could not
transport me and rings baggage services to surrender my bags.
Down at conveior 11 a friendly agent tells me that my tags have not been
entered into the system yet and it would take maybe two hours for the bags
to surface. He prints me a luggage report and I am on my train ...

Now how do I get my money?

P.S. this is no April 1st fool of mine - rather a very early one of LH

I am sitting in CDG where AF is playing a similar joke on me- except that they have the excuse of strike and that the whole of France has decided not to work :mad: :mad: Luckily I have managed to get my ticket endorsed to BA and should be out of here soon.
You have to ascertain the cause of cancellation first of all- if it is mechanical problem/weather/act of God etc. the carrier can wriggle out. Once you make sure that it is not one of these, you get a PNR printout from the airline, write to LH customer service and if it does not work, take them to the legal authorities in the appropriate jurisdiction (FRA/AMS in this case).
I have managed to get EUR 600 each for me and my wife from 9W for getting IDBed, but it took a letter from my lawyer threatening legal action for them to see the light. The EU regulations are very clear and passenger friendly on this aspect (which is why the airlines are raising Cain on this rule).
All the best ^

weero you know that SQ offers a daily service from SYD via SIN to AMS?

It’s more likely in everyone’s life that we have interactions they don’t work: A pleasant – and expensive - restaurant, you ask for a nice table and you end up with one next to the entrance. You ask for a medium rare steak, you get it medium done. The pair sitting on prime table were late arrivals but enjoying their salad, while you are still waiting to order. You don’t know why, you hate this place but there must be something that you pull you in again and again. Did you find already this little secret what you make you a repeated customer on Lufthansa?

To let you know: FRA and MUC were forced to go by EU rules to introduce security checkpoints if a passenger transfers form Schengen to Non Schengen an vice versa:

Weero; how do they manage to refuse you access to the lounge? I thought the mere display of a SEN card makes them smile and grant access. Atleast that is the way it works in MUC...

Anyways; I'd be furious in your setting. Proper handling of irregular operations is for me the most important feature of a great airline... So far LH has not let me down, lets hope it stays that way. (KL and TV is on the other end of the scale, SK with its possible strikes next week might join them...)

I really should keep score of bad experiences with LH/AF vs. good.

Buongiorno Ventimiglia
Yes but I am no fan of SQ at all. In discounted Biz they also are beyond my
budget, LH/TG/SK are far more affordable.
No secret here - I always hated FRA but it got much worse since the bus Mafia
took over the place and makes us ride in the crammed and stinky vehicles.
I know, it is their interpretation and contribution to the Montreal convention.
Does not change the fact that it is useless.
By telling me that I had no longer a valid BP. It wasn't an issue then as I
was already irate at the agent for telling me incoherent excuses so I
wandered off. But yes, SEN card is sufficient to get in ... normally.
Thanks for your story LonH, I will try it. Mechanical failures are not
force majeur though and the sole fault of the carrier. So they would not get
away with it. They will very probably play the weather card, this is why I
procured the KLM flight scheduled ex. FRA.

It's disappointing, but unless you are a HON you really don't mean anything to LH. Trust me. But then again the HON's get treated extremely well and exhibit quite interesting behavior which I had followed previously in the "all F class passengers should have access to HON/F lounges".

My experience has been in the best of cases that Lounge attendants can look after seat assignments and that is it.

In Athens the girl told me that she wasn't even connected to "the system". I can only imagine what she stares at on her computer screen......

Frankfurt anyway is a black hole, especially for baggage.

Hi weero,

as time goes by I hope you feel a little bit better. Great for you that you found a “not to beat” fare deal. As you are no fan of SQ would you mind if I am asking about your favourite airline for travelling in Biz?

Reading your comments about your unpleasant adventure, I assume that you flew on LH from BKK (unfortunately old Bit seats) and arrived in FRA at six in the morning, passed immigration and security check (initiated to comply to Regulation (EC) No 2320/2002, Montreal Convention is a different topic) and after some walking you appeared in T1A. Looking at the screens you realised that your connecting flight to AMS (LH 4670 scheduled to depart at 7.50am) were cancelled. Finally you picked up your luggage and went on a four hours train ride to AMS.

Let me reflect what I had done, if I were in your shoes: I would have presented my AMS-BP to one of the agents in the combined lounge near gate A26 asking on which flight I am rebooked as LH cancelled their flight to AMS (Lufthansa services FRA eight times/day on B737 or A32X planes). It’s hard to believe that an agent refuses to sort that out. As there are flight irregularities every day, these agents have access to your PNR. If you are rebooked already, they print you a new BP and that’s it for the moment. If it turns out that Lufthansa refuses me to transport referring to a ticketing issue, than neither a lounge nor a gate agent can help me at this point.

Solving the ticket issue is the first key to get a valid BP. As my aim is to arrive at my final destination as soon as possible, I try to speed up the process. If Idon’t find a counter servicing me in a timely manner airside, I am walking out to Lufthansa’s main ticketing area. There are separate counters for Biz and First Class Passengers. I present my ticket (or a printout if you are travelling on an etix) and I more likely get an answer on the spot. If Lufthansa still refuses to transport me, then I will argue step by step. But only if I know that I comply to fare rules. If so, it should be possible to sort it out. After I am at home I write a letter to CS.

In the unlikely event, that Lufthansa still refuses me to transport, I will buy a ticket. After being at home, I report my case to my lawer and I am confident, that he knows what to do.

As there are human beings, there is always a chance that someone makes a mistake. It looks like that you are troubled much more that on average. Neither Lufthansa nor any other legacy carrier will survive, if they produce situations that their transfer passengers finally ride the train.

Salve Ventimiglia
Tough one - my overall budget is limited and travel expense cuts into my
project expenditure. So price is the driving factor for my travels. Ex. Oz,
LH,TG, and SK are the cheapo biz carriers (only talking *A here), then come
OS and OZ. Top range are SQ, NZ, and UA.
By far the best one is NZ but offers limited routing.
As I stated, I do not travel SQ because of the cost (40%-60% higher than
LH), so LH, TG, and SK are my favourite Biz carriers because of the pricing, not
because I like the service they offer (TG dreadful seats, SK dreadful ground
handling, LH cursed with FRA).

Normally, I would have done the routing you mention. But I was in the States
before, so I flew in on UA and then tried to connect to AMS. On the whole
rest, you are spot on.
Had BP even with correct gate on it and still LH would not honour it.
But that is exactly what I have done. Their argunent was that they could not
determine the 'type of my ticket', the same excuse the ticketing desk came up
with two hours later.
This is exactly what they claimed not to have - they could not see my tix,
despite me having a BP.
They issued me two more BPs for two later flights and both were cancelled.
They tried to waitlist me for a third one (which flew) but that did not work
out. Also putting me on the last flight did not work.
Exactly - all agents tried to call supervisors but would not get through.
Maybe I should have done that too but I was running late in the end. As I
was clearly sent to the transfer/ticketing desk which could not help me either,
I had the choice of hoping another ticketing desk could sort it out (why would
they - no one else showed any interest in my travels) or using the train. So
I decided for the train.
Well, I did call my lawyer but I would not buy a ticket from LH anymore anytime soon.
Will now wait for best offer in compensation LH comes up with and then decide
on my chances for a legal proceeding. Can't really take the risk of missing out
on future upgrades for the sake of 600 Euros. But will try to get the equivalent
in cash or goodies (I'd take miles) from LH settled amicably.

All you say is very true.
HON is the number 1 reason for me to change from flying 200K+ miles a year on
LH tickets to <15K p.a. . HON was the worst change ever to be made to M&L,
worse than 1.8.04.
A week ago, I would have strongly disagreed with you :eek: . But it seems that
once more, you are right and reality proves me wrong.
In FRA, they seem to be able to do things if authorised by a supervisor. But
Friday, they could not get hold of anyone.

I must say that I have never been let down like this by LH so far (touchwood!) which BA has done on a couple of occasions- LH has not gone out of their way to help me (which SK has done a few times), but they are pretty reliable in their robotic way.
Must say that the rudest LH staff usually habit FRA.

Salve weero,

For me, price of ticket is also a driving factor, but I have to admit that when it comes to long haul flights I try to avoid those airlines not offering angle lie flat seats/beds also. Referring to TG: They are in the process of upgrading their fleet and product; on routes like BKK-LHR-BKK I heard many good things about seat/service; but maybe they will stop selling cheap premium fares after finishing this process.

I am still struggling to realize what was going on in FRA.

1. There was the “type of ticket” issue (but Lufthansa issued several BP’s).
2. Lufthansa cancelled a series of three flights to AMS.
3. Waitlist was closed on two later flights.
4. Luggage issue

IMO the “type of ticket” issue has to be separated from flight irregularity issues. Assuming there was a system glitch, you are in a much better position if you can present your (paper) ticket or a printout of your etix. Presenting only a BP don’t help, if Lufthansa investigates if you apply to the fare rules of your ticket.

At the time Lufthansa agrees to honour you ticket (= issuing BP’s) the next step is to transport you to AMS as soon as possible (even via MUC or HAM). Now you are competing to seats with your fellow stranded passengers.

Lufthansa offers eight flights/day to AMS:

LH 4670 FRA 07:50 AMS 09:00
LH 4672 FRA 08:35 AMS 09:45
LH 4674 FRA 10:25 AMS 11:35
LH 4676 FRA 12:30 AMS 13:40
LH 4678 FRA 14:00 AMS 15:10 (slightly different times on 235)
LH 4680 FRA 16:30 AMS 17:40
LH 4682 FRA 17:15 AMS 18:25
LH 4688 FRA 21:15 AMS 22:25

I have no idea why Lufthansa cancelled three flights in a row; it’s hard to believe that all three had a technical. I have no idea, why you could not be waitlisted on two later flights either. I have no idea why Lufthansa did not offer you transportation on KL or via MUC/HAM. I have also no idea why a supervisor has to step in, if flight irregularities occur (AFAIK every plan has a flight manager).

I assume that Lufthansa is carrying passengers out of AMS via FRA to their final destination, they need these feeder flights. If there was fog on either end (I know that from Milan extensively) I have reservations to blame any airline for that (but I be vocal, if airlines naming bad weather situations the reason, if competitors operating).You were present from 6am onwards, travelled on a biz ticket and at the end of fruitless discussions you went by train. Do you see why I am still struggling?
I have to admit that I am barely knowledgeable about HON Circle status. I only know that Lufthansa offers a meet & great service outside Europe and a limo service from FCT to the plane, members are earning more miles, have a booking guarantee, access to revenue inventory for award redemption and in FRA and MUC there are separate lounge. On ground there is a dedicated phone number offered for their travel needs. If that’s it, than I don’t see why the introduction of HON Circle effects a SEN that much.

HON Circle members must travel a lot on fully integrated M&M partners. Therefore the frequent airports and their facilities much more than other frequent flyer. If Lufthansa separates this group (as a lot of airlines does without actively promoting) and First Class passengers in offering separate lounges, SEN lounges should be less crowded and agents have more time to serve their SEN/Biz/FTL guests. When it comes to flight irregularities, than HON Circle members could have an advantage, but I doubt if any HON Circle who does not identify himself might left out as yourself.

Referring to your adventurous situation last Friday, I would be interested to know why you think that HON Circle tier did effect your situation.

Nor have LonH - in the contrary: in past times, LH went through quite some
effort to accomodate me the best way they could, often ignoring ticketing
rules (in LHR an agent once offered me to fly earlier - as I check in plenty ahead
of schedule -if I accepted to VDB the later flight for 0 GBP. Great service).
My Friday showdown was the most singular event of incompetence and ignorance
I ever experienced. Completely agree with your observations - they are robotic
but reliable. Not on Friday though.
True. Though this was not the issue at all - they simply could not help me. None
of their calls went through and the system outright refused to do anything.
All lounge wardens were polite and highly incompetent. The ticketing girl
too was friendly and entirely use- and helpless.
The only rude person in the game was I, though I still behaved compared to
the other pax.

Buonasera Ventimiglia
Yes I do. You see - if you posted that story a week ago, I would not have
believed you either. I would assume that you did something wrong, that
you misunderstood them, that you exaggerate.
So I cannot blame you at all if you prefer to think that I made it up.
To your list:

1. There was the “type of ticket” issue (but Lufthansa issued several BP’s).
2. Lufthansa cancelled a series of three flights to AMS.
3. Waitlist was closed on two later flights.
4. Luggage issue

1) I maybe was terse: of course I had a printout of the etix with me but it
did not help. Nor did the BP I already had.
2) Almost. They operated the 4678 but the agents could not waitlist me for
that one. Though could print me a BP for the 4680 which then was canceled
again. They then wanted to 'try' to issue one for the 4682 and told me to
wait as issuing did not work. Which I then finally refused and proceeded to
the train.
3) I don't think so. All three agents confirmed that the waitlists were open but
the system did not let them waitlist me.
Again, the only argument given was that "the system would not issue a BP
or allow to WL me for those flights". The rang a supervisor to override the
issue but would not get one.

[HONs]
I disagree here - there are no competent agents left for SENs and lower.
It is almost as bad as the dummy-transfer desk LH operates in FRA whose
sole purpose is to delay pax indefinitely and then claim that it
is their fault for messing up their schedules.
First my comment against HON was made in a general context, not linked to
this Friday. But if you ask speficically, I gladly re-iterate it: 1st only imbecile agents
left for SEN/FTL/*G/GM in FRA. Any agent with IQ>65 has to serve HONs.
2nd SEN are unworthy for LH these days and they start to show it.
They show it in M&L, with the lounge level, and now the service.
2 years ago what happened on Friday was entirely unthinkable to happen to
a SEN. They would (and did in earlier cases) gone out of their way to make
something happen.
I do not understand this bit.
The new seats are great. But I want cheap Biz, not great seats. Anything
slightly bigger than Eco is fine with me, and TG upgrading - as you say - will
likely kill the last good fares ex. Australia.