SEN and SEN+

Old Apr 26, 07, 6:10 am
  #121  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by Tirreg View Post
..I cannot imagine that a SEN who earned his status on flying cheap longhaul Economy mostly on other * carriers is internally treated the same way (event invitation, targeted promotions) as someone who flies heavily on paid C class (not D or Z)...
And I cannot imagine that a company which is clearly unable to update its business class and the associated website and the most elementary booking engine should be capable of determining each SEN's revenue and also recognise them on a flight. They have no clue who you are other than you having a SEN card - it's a sad truth my son.
Still you are right a SEN traveling in LH Y is tortured the same way everyone in Y is tortured. So the distinction is provided implicitely.
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Old Apr 26, 07, 6:45 am
  #122  
 
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Originally Posted by midway View Post
Lufthansa calculates a lifetime customer equity value (CEV) for each M&M member based on past revenue (1/3) and future revenue (2/3). They rank each of the 10 million members based on their CEV, therefore each member has a rank between 1 and 10 million. Afterwards they put the members in 6 customer equity classes based on their customer equity rank.

My theory is:

If you are in a certain class (maybe the 2nd) you get your "+" behind SEN.

In theory, if they have to give out operational upgrades, the members with the the highest customer equity ranks should get it.
This theory makes most sense to me.
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:20 am
  #123  
 
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A friend of mine (a LH pilot), after speaking to a purser, told me the following:

Every flight (at least intercont) receives a PIL (Passenger Information List), containing the status passengers. There are: HON, SEN+, SEN, FTL+, FTL.
They use this list for example to decide whom to upgrade to F if necessary in last minute. The purser might also decide based on this list how much effort to put on the reseating of a passenger with broken IFE, or just to apologize and hand out a miles voucher for compensation.

A SEN+ is close to becoming HON, a FTL+ is close to becoming SEN.

Thats what my friend told me, I dont know if its true and I have never been on a LH intercont flight in the last 8 years or so.

So its up to you to decide if this could be the truth, according to your experiences on bord.

Cheers
Hamburger
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:25 am
  #124  
 
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Originally Posted by midway View Post
That´s the point. You´re so young that your future revenue will put you in the upper class.
So what is my future revenue with LH? Can be anything from a few 100 Euros p.a. to > 200k p.a. I do not even know that for myself, so how can LH? As I said, I'd love to see that tool...

My UA history illustrates this point quite well: Over the last years my spending with UA was > 150k p.a. which made me GS in 06. If UA went and would have tried to predict my first quarter 2007 revenue based upon these numbers... well ...

When I look at my current spending level with UA I might easily drop from GS to 1P. But even then my current spending level is not an indicator for anything; next Tuesday will decide whether I'm back on my UA 945 commuter flight on a probably weekly basis.

So I'm open to any model which can cope with these more or less random jumps. TFM pointed out some other difficulties with future revenue prediction on singe pax level.
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:30 am
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by Hamburger View Post
A friend of mine (a LH pilot), after speaking to a purser, told me the following:

Every flight (at least intercont) receives a PIL (Passenger Information List), containing the status passengers. There are: HON, SEN+, SEN, FTL+, FTL.
They use this list for example to decide whom to upgrade to F if necessary in last minute. The purser might also decide based on this list how much effort to put on the reseating of a passenger with broken IFE, or just to apologize and hand out a miles voucher for compensation.
^ Finally it is proved that SEN+ is not a myth.

But what abt. introducing GM+, and especially HON- (HON being close to drop to SEN - nobody would want to give that guy any upgrade) and SEN-? Why is that list focused on upward potential only but not on downward?
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:31 am
  #126  
 
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Originally Posted by Triple3 View Post
That is no myth.

Honestly, kidding aside for a second: When you look at the manifest sometimes you see besides some names "SEN+" - of course not on every flight, as there is not a SEN(+) on every flight. E.g. since approx. 7 months it always says SEN+ right next to Mr. Triple3.

I'm not sure what it means, though. I asked some FAs but they mostly told me different things. The favorites, being based upon the number of times they were brought up by the FAs, are:

1. Annual revenue with LH > € 100k. (Ridiculous IMHO.)

2. Higher elite level compared to LH SEN in any other *A FFP. (Might be, my SEN+ began to show around the time I was promoted to UGS)

3. "Preferred" SEN due to SEN status achieved by mainly flying F / C and not Y.

So at the end I've no idea what it means. But SEN+ is out there someplace...
So the last time we discussed it I with the two Pursers on the plane and some other FA's went through the whole manifest to check who has it and who not.

First of all it is NOT a sign of higher revenues, better customer etc.

The Pursers and the FA said they were not told about SEN +, never notice it, and frankly don't give

We were on a full 747, and we counted roughly 20+

BUT we found the following... All SEN + had special circumstances:

Special meal
Companion
or Special needs ... even though WCR is added in some cases as well..

The conclusion was why only SEN, and not HON, or FTL, or so ...

well in the end we figured, those are the ones who have the biggest chip on their shoulder and would sulk if not pampered a bit

Last edited by roundtheworld; Apr 26, 07 at 7:41 am
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:34 am
  #127  
 
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Originally Posted by weero View Post
A SEN+ is a pax of or in excess of 150kgs or 333 pounds.
Proved wrong trivially:

Mr. Triple3 - SEN+ - weight < 150 lbs.
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:34 am
  #128  
 
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Originally Posted by Triple3 View Post
As said above: The only remarkable coincidence - if it is one - it the fact that Triple3 being SEN+ came up when I was promoted to UGS.
So on TATL routes they not only share their revenue, they also share you.
That is a true union- united in the good and the bad !
Originally Posted by flysurfer View Post
..many FFs credit their flights to another *A program during "leap years". That should drive any "prediction software" crazy.
Or at least to absurd results - the ones all prediction software squirts out if it doesn't crash ahead of time.
Though midway did not claim that they use software to claculate the uncomputable. Could well be the good ol'crystall ball powered by rumour...
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:38 am
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by roundtheworld View Post
First of all it is NOT a sign of higher revenues, better customer etc.
Seconded. See my above posts.

Originally Posted by roundtheworld View Post
We were on a full 747, and we counted roughly 20+
So even you now believes that there is a SEN+.

Originally Posted by roundtheworld View Post
BUT we found the following... All SEN + had special circumstances:

Special meal
Companion
or Special needs ... even though WCR is added in some cases as well..
As I said - I cannot think of any with regards to me. That of course leaves open the possibility that Triple3 per se is a special circumstance.

Originally Posted by roundtheworld View Post
The conclusion was why only SEN, and not HON, or FTL, or so ...

well in the end we figured, those are the ones who have the biggest chip on their shoulder and would sulk if not pampered a bit
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:41 am
  #130  
 
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Originally Posted by weero View Post
That is a true union- united in the good and the bad !
You forgot the "LH in" before "the bad".

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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:42 am
  #131  
 
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Originally Posted by Triple3 View Post
^ Finally it is proved that SEN+ is not a myth.
you dont want to let it go, wont you!?

i still have not seen any proof! or was an of this now an official LH statement!?
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:44 am
  #132  
 
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Originally Posted by sentom View Post
you dont want to let it go, wont you!?

i still have not seen any proof! or was an of this now an official LH statement!?
So you try to say that rtw made things up with the 20 SEN+ on the list?
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Old Apr 26, 07, 7:56 am
  #133  
 
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Originally Posted by Triple3 View Post
So you try to say that rtw made things up with the 20 SEN+ on the list?
nope, SEN+ is useless since, as rtw pointed out, none of the FA's know what it means... so whats the point in discussing it over and over and over and over again... therefore no proof that SEN+ as a service orientated status does not exist...

if the SEN+ next to your name still gets you excited thought, so be it! its not going to do anything else than that...
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Old Apr 26, 07, 8:00 am
  #134  
 
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Originally Posted by roundtheworld View Post
SThe Pursers and the FA said they were not told about SEN +, never notice it, and frankly don't give
So even if it existed, it would be worthless. Much along the seat blocking which unbeknownst to Wolf's underlings too.
So as 333 states, it does at least exist as an IT feature/flaw/quirk/phantom, it also most certainly has little impact once on board as the waiters are oblivious to it.
I have only gotten the SEN+ and that was when a clueless LH intern checked me through to a UA segment
Originally Posted by Triple3 View Post
^ Finally it is proved that SEN+ is not a myth. ..
Et tu Brute! Have you been smitten by the morbus flysurferii? A hearsay anecdote does not consitute a proof! Especially you with your background are well capable of separating an indirect hint from a full fledged proof .
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Old Apr 26, 07, 8:12 am
  #135  
 
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Originally Posted by Triple3 View Post
So what is my future revenue with LH? Can be anything from a few 100 Euros p.a. to > 200k p.a. I do not even know that for myself, so how can LH? As I said, I'd love to see that tool...

My UA history illustrates this point quite well: Over the last years my spending with UA was > 150k p.a. which made me GS in 06. If UA went and would have tried to predict my first quarter 2007 revenue based upon these numbers... well ...

When I look at my current spending level with UA I might easily drop from GS to 1P. But even then my current spending level is not an indicator for anything; next Tuesday will decide whether I'm back on my UA 945 commuter flight on a probably weekly basis.

So I'm open to any model which can cope with these more or less random jumps. TFM pointed out some other difficulties with future revenue prediction on singe pax level.
Itīs not about predicting revenue for a certain quarter or year, itīs about the rest of your life. Assume someone is 30 years old and has spend 150k p.a. over the past 5 years on LH. What is more likely, that heīll spend 2 million or 2000 Euros for the rest of his life?
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