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-   Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Brussels, LOT and Other Partners | Miles & More (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more-495/)
-   -   New "improvements" of M&M 1 April 2006 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/508854-new-improvements-m-m-1-april-2006-a.html)

totti Jan 9, 06 12:22 pm

Yeah, actually I fully agree with you two above.

andyZRH Jan 9, 06 3:05 pm


Originally Posted by Threy
We will not see a 4th class between Y and C on LH.

LH is very smart and conservative in that regard and is well aware that in penny pinching Germany consumers and companies alike would book into a premium economy cabin and hence cannibalise the revenue from the C cabin heavily…

Well, that's a possibility. However, e.g. BA does have a premium economy product and last time I checked they were doing pretty well financially. (I don't know whether WT+ itself is a success, though.) Are the markets really that different for LH and BA?

weero Jan 9, 06 7:28 pm


Originally Posted by andyZRH
..Are the markets really that different for LH and BA?

Yes they are. Look at D and Z class bookings with long advance purchase
periods and you will see that the UK is pretty much the most expensive market
anywhere.
LH however competes against many cheapo airlines on the continent and does
so quite successfully. But this is why they cannot 'afford' to let E++ emerge.

The upgrade situation is exactly the opposite: full fares and upgrade availability
ex. LHR are a dream (probably because of the steep revenue price). Whereas
LH makes class transfers as hard as possible. So the gearing is very, very
different.

Originally Posted by totti
Yeah, actually I fully agree with you two above.

I know it's a pity - I would have loved to have E++ on LH. But then the
grandmaster won't let me have it. I am sure he already warned Georgy Clooney
who in turn then leaked the information to the Wolf.

flysurfer Jan 9, 06 8:30 pm


Originally Posted by weero
Yes they But then the grandmaster won't let me have it. I am sure he already warned Georgy Clooney who in turn then leaked the information to the Wolf.

Nope, haven't met George recently. You are safe. But I met his dad, Nick, a few weeks before X-mas. Very nice gentleman.

alex220569 Jan 10, 06 12:49 am

Minimum mileage for attaining status (FOREIGN COUNTRY)
 
Does anybody of these experts here know what are the new mileage borders for SEN/FTL if you are having residence overseas (e.g. Cape Town). :D

Thanks, Alex

Rudi Jan 10, 06 1:17 am


Originally Posted by alex220569
Does anybody of these experts here know what are the new mileage borders for SEN/FTL if you are having residence overseas (e.g. Cape Town). :D

Thanks, Alex

new = old

FTL 35'000 (calendar year, one out of 2)
SEN 100'000 (calendar year, one out of 2)
HON 600'000 (cumulativ in 2 calendar years)

alex220569 Jan 10, 06 2:20 am


Originally Posted by Rudi
new = old

FTL 35'000 (calendar year, one out of 2)
SEN 100'000 (calendar year, one out of 2)
HON 600'000 (cumulativ in 2 calendar years)

Thanks Rudi for quick Info! ^

weero Jan 10, 06 5:22 am


Originally Posted by flysurfer
Nope, haven't met George recently. You are safe. But I met his dad, Nick, a few weeks before X-mas. Very nice gentleman.

That adds just one single redirection :eek:.
Now Nick is going to tell it George and then it'll be with the Wolf in no time :( .
E++ farewell... or better RIP.

Yokdoc Jan 10, 06 12:22 pm

Improvement: No lounge access for FTL child companion
 
In future times (from April 1st) it will not be possible to bring your own child to the lounge! Only exception: child is a baby less than 2 y/o. Any suggestions what is the best way/best address to send a complain about this unfriendly rule?
It is now not 100% sure that it will go this way, but it is more likely than the other way round (as the LH agent said).

cajmere Jan 11, 06 3:13 am

I don't think it is fair not to allow a companion in to the lounge if you are traveling together, particularly on an award-companion ticket. The other changes would not effect me.

Rudi Jan 11, 06 3:23 am


Originally Posted by cajmere
I don't think it is fair not to allow a companion in to the lounge if you are traveling together, particularly on an award-companion ticket. The other changes would not effect me.

SEN (the only ones, I believe, that get discounted 50% companion ticktes) can still get one guest into the lounge with them.

I don't know any StarAlliance airline allowing lounge-access for companions of silver status holders, some (most?) of them would even not allow silver-card holders at all into any lounge (when flying eco).

While it is never nice if former perks are lost, miles&more is, in respect to lounge access for status holders, I believe, still better than the average other Star-airline.

mith Jan 11, 06 4:18 am


Originally Posted by Yokdoc
In future times (from April 1st) it will not be possible to bring your own child to the lounge! Only exception: child is a baby less than 2 y/o. Any suggestions what is the best way/best address to send a complain about this unfriendly rule?.

well, in this case, i would go into the lounge and leave the kids in the entrance, telling them to play with the dragons at the door.

LH's biggest competitor in Germany in the Deutsche Bahn and they still allow free companions into the lounge for status costumers. Also a frequent traveller who does 40 trips within Germany in a year will most likely earn status with bahn.comfort (at 50 EUR each way which is a reasonable price for a ticket for a 3-4 hour ride using a Bahncard for a competetive journey with taking LH inner-German flight.

I would also love to see dba, airberlin and ltu start a common frequent traveller program in Germany. It is so easy now to offer a BETTER perks program in this country than M/M - and maybe M/M will rethink further devaluations.

Sonwende Jan 11, 06 4:31 am


Originally Posted by Rudi
SEN (the only ones, I believe, that get discounted 50% companion ticktes) can still get one guest into the lounge with them.

I don't know any StarAlliance airline allowing lounge-access for companions of silver status holders, some (most?) of them would even not allow silver-card holders at all into any lounge (when flying eco).

While it is never nice if former perks are lost, miles&more is, in respect to lounge access for status holders, I believe, still better than the average other Star-airline.


I agree with you that M&M is the only programm how allows with Silver the Lounge access for companions.

But please keep in mind, you need until March 2006 50k miles to reach this status, in other programms you have Gold with 50k!

In my opionion, M&M is geting more worse for the status customer. Wait what will be the next ... maybee in January 2007 ...

dia15222 Jan 11, 06 4:51 am


Originally Posted by Rudi
SEN (the only ones, I believe, that get discounted 50% companion ticktes) can still get one guest into the lounge with them.

I don't know any StarAlliance airline allowing lounge-access for companions of silver status holders, some (most?) of them would even not allow silver-card holders at all into any lounge (when flying eco).

While it is never nice if former perks are lost, miles&more is, in respect to lounge access for status holders, I believe, still better than the average other Star-airline.

No! You definitly compare the wrong things.
If you see the statusrequirements *S on many other Airlines are much lower than on LH. Some (not all) offer fewer benefits. Different Levels do not really compare! And on some Markets different things are ment to be important.
On many Airlines the requirments for an FTL would be enough for *G.
Or if you see at onewordl: Silver on BA is much easier to achive if you fly Businss-Class and gives Lounge-Access in the whole oneworld-alliance.
Five Returns in Shorthaul C give me Silver on BA (Lounge-Access for me and a comanion on the Whole Alliance) and nothing on LH!
There I need 9 Returns in Shorthaul-Euro-C (4000 Statusmiles) and 7 Returns in Shorthaul-Euro-C(5000 Stausmiles) (to get FTL/Silver. Then I get Lounge-Access only on LH and no companion.
Lets look into different Programs:
BA: Lounge Access with Silver
BMI: Lounge Access on BMI with Silver (Not on Chepo Fares)
SAS: No Lounge Access with Silver
TAP: Lounge Acces but no Companion
Spanair: Lounge Access with Silver
US/UA: Domestic Lounge Acces has to be purchased seperatly

Volasia Jan 11, 06 5:54 am


Originally Posted by dia15222
Five Returns in C give me Silver on BA (Lounge-Access for me and a comanion on the Whole Alliance) and nothing on LH!
There I need 7 Returns in C to get FTL/Silver.

Don't know if I missed something and what kind of return it is but 5 returns in C longhaul should give you FTL on LH (around 70,000 miles...)

weero Jan 11, 06 6:53 am


Originally Posted by mith
well, in this case, i would go into the lounge and leave the kids in the entrance, telling them to play with the dragons at the door...

It is politically incorrect to refer to the wardens as dragons.
Or has any dragon ever obstructed your lounge access? So you see, the
fluffly animals do not deserve that reference.

But I quite like the idea of leaving a raving child with the wardens.

andre1970 Jan 11, 06 7:27 am


Originally Posted by weero
It is politically incorrect to refer to the wardens as dragons.
Or has any dragon ever obstructed your lounge access? So you see, the
fluffly animals do not deserve that reference.

But I quite like the idea of leaving a raving child with the wardens.

BTW, any news of "The MUC Warden™"?

dia15222 Jan 11, 06 7:37 am


Originally Posted by andre1970
BTW, any news of "The MUC Warden™"?

With the new automatic entrance door for SEN in MUC all Problems are solved! They react friendly when I ask for a magazine!
Maybe they left her with concrete socks in the Terminal 1 :D

totti Jan 11, 06 7:43 am


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
Don't know if I missed something and what kind of return it is but 5 returns in C longhaul should give you FTL on LH (around 70,000 miles...)

on BA you just need 10 segments in C on european or intra-GB flights to go for silver. the same 10 segments in C on *A (except intra-german) will just give you 20k or 25k if you're still FTL/Sen which won't entitle to FTL.

But anyway, as we still discussed in this thread, it's not just the status and the perks that counts. It's a personal dicision which airline and FFP to choose depending on the personal needs and travel pattern (and many other factors). And I am not sure if it makes sense to compare LH M&M and BA EC

Rudi Jan 11, 06 8:19 am


Originally Posted by dia15222
... On many Airlines the requirments for an FTL would be enough for *G. ...

but only for one year. LH FTL status is for 2 calendar years.

tcswede Jan 11, 06 10:51 am


Originally Posted by dia15222
...On many Airlines the requirments for an FTL would be enough for *G...

That might me true at first glance - but when you take the COS into account it chages somewhat such as 200% instead of 125% for C and 300% instead of 150% for F. Also the level of min miles differs on various carriers. Hence the comparison limps slightly. In addition 2 years vs.one year of status etc.

It is not that simple.

BTW you need 10 R/T in C for domestic UK on BA to reach silver - at least to my knowledge you only get 20 Tier Points for that - then again considering that BA will do away with C apart from LHR and LGW verysoon - it will beeven more difficult - a last add on - if you are based in the UK - your requirements for silver also change as for its own nationals the requirement is higher - 600 vs 400 Tier Points for Europeans.

Cheers

Thomas

derpelikan Jan 11, 06 7:46 pm

depends
 
in my eyes, it is great for the baggage allowance and the lounge acess as a LH FTL.
the baggage allowance saved my ... when i was not a *Gold.

so having the LH FTL helped me to carry each time around 70KG ... ( some years ago it was 40KG + 5KG tolerance for FTL) and i had 25KG handbaggae all the time.

i think, if you flying business C (200% mileage) and First (300%) LH is the best programm as you will be SEN/FTL very fast.

if you fly mostly economy another * program like thai, asiana will fit better, as there you get only 25% /50% as COS bonus.

btw. for me it was impossible to get SEN status as i had too less flights in paid C or F the last 3 years, but it was easy to get * Gold with 50K miles in one year.

so may be the trick is to get FTL on LH first. than you can use the lounge and can carry the baggage.
the next year you can use the FTL benefits while crediting points to another carrier in *.

if you only fly economy... 50K is still a long way to fly :D

in first or business it is easy , i am already at 25K status miles this year....

dp

dia15222 Jan 13, 06 1:52 am

Just looking for prices for my next Trip to London in Feb. I can book fixed Tickets.
LH goes with about 280 Euro Booking-Class K and T so it is 875 + 25% StatusbonusMiles! No more Segments, but Access to the SEN-Lounge
BA offers me a C-Class Ticket for 260 Euro which gives me 1150 + 25% Statusbonus Qantas Miles and 80 Status-Credits. Access to the Terrace in LHR
Paying with my SEN-CC i will get about 260 Award Miles for the BA-Flight!
Guess what I will book!
With Segments the choice would have been different!

totti Jan 13, 06 3:30 am


Originally Posted by dia15222
Just looking for prices for my next Trip to London in Feb. I can book fixed Tickets.
LH goes with about 280 Euro Booking-Class K and T so it is 875 + 25% StatusbonusMiles! No more Segments, but Access to the SEN-Lounge
BA offers me a C-Class Ticket for 260 Euro which gives me 1150 + 25% Statusbonus Qantas Miles and 80 Status-Credits. Access to the Terrace in LHR Guess what I will book!
With Segments the choice would have been different!

Had the same finding some days ago. FRA-LHR 243 € in C class (not flex). Will have a shot to BA, too. BTW that's a good chance starting an OW career :D

dia15222 Jan 13, 06 5:01 am


Originally Posted by totti
Had the same finding some days ago. FRA-LHR 243 € in C class (not flex). Will have a shot to BA, too. BTW that's a good chance starting an OW career :D

This is what I did last year and it was the beginning of a long friendship!
Mid Feb I will become Qantas Gold.

Grog Jan 21, 06 4:19 pm

So, I'm about to drop down to FTL unless I spring for the €1500 payment.

I receive my new FTL card in advance, along with a letter for applying for SEN renewal @ €1500, and a brochure that says look at the benefits and privileges that you'll enjoy for the next two years. One of them is that FTLs can take a companion into the lounges. No mention that there will be changes 32 days after your FTL starts.

Same crappy LH miscommunications and/or misrepresentations as ever. ^

rorschi Jan 22, 06 8:27 am


Originally Posted by Grog
So, I'm about to drop down to FTL unless I spring for the €1500 payment.

1500€ for access to owercrowded lounges and for one long-haul-upgrade? Come on...

Ohm... will the SEN-status be extended for one or two years?
Is there a similar offer for FTL-extentions?

Patrick

totti Jan 22, 06 9:15 am


Originally Posted by rorschi
1500€ for access to owercrowded lounges and for one long-haul-upgrade? Come on...

I second this. I'd better invest the money in a RTW in F instead of C even if it won't be enough.


Ohm... will the SEN-status be extended for one or two years?
Is there a similar offer for FTL-extentions?

Patrick
Never heard of such offer neither Sen nor FTL. But never droped on MM so far :D

prollo Jan 22, 06 12:31 pm


Originally Posted by Yokdoc
In future times (from April 1st) it will not be possible to bring your own child to the lounge! Only exception: child is a baby less than 2 y/o. Any suggestions what is the best way/best address to send a complain about this unfriendly rule?
It is now not 100% sure that it will go this way, but it is more likely than the other way round (as the LH agent said).

Thats not correct. A family-member (wife or child) is not a guest, its a family-member. LH makes a separation for that! In other words:You can put your wife and your 3 childs and a friend in a SEN lounge or yourself, your wife and your 3 childs without a friend in a FTL-Lounge (also valid from 1st of April).

Rolf

Grog Jan 22, 06 12:44 pm


Originally Posted by rorschi
1500€ for access to owercrowded lounges and for one long-haul-upgrade? Come on...

Ohm... will the SEN-status be extended for one or two years?
Is there a similar offer for FTL-extentions?

Patrick

1 - No one guarantees that you even get the eVouchers with the cash payment
2 - One year
3 - Nope, not for FTLs.

flyin´ruddl Jan 22, 06 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by Yokdoc
In future times (from April 1st) it will not be possible to bring your own child to the lounge! Only exception: child is a baby less than 2 y/o. Any suggestions what is the best way/best address to send a complain about this unfriendly rule?

Sorry, but I have to doubt that. What do you think when travelling with my wife and son, who is age 2 1/2? The LH matrons through him out? Well, even after considering this :rolleyes: , I still doubt it. The general sense here is "... and dependend children...". I´ll see during the next months.

F.R.

Grog Jan 22, 06 12:52 pm


Originally Posted by prollo
Thats not correct. A family-member (wife or child) is not a guest, its a family-member. LH makes a separation for that! In other words:You can put your wife and your 3 childs and a friend in a SEN lounge or yourself, your wife and your 3 childs without a friend in a FTL-Lounge (also valid from 1st of April).

Rolf

Unfortunately, companions may no longer enter with you in the future.
Begleitpersonen können zukünftig nicht mehr mitgenommen werden.

Of course, with LH's poor communications history, you may be correct, but LH doesn't show a differentiation here. A family member would still be a companion/Begleitperson, even if they are a family member and not make it into the FTL lounge.

prollo Jan 22, 06 12:56 pm


Originally Posted by Grog
Unfortunately, companions may no longer enter with you in the future.
Begleitpersonen können zukünftig nicht mehr mitgenommen werden.

Of course, with LH's poor communications history, you may be correct, but LH doesn't show a differentiation here. A family member would still be a companion/Begleitperson, even if they are a family member and not make it into the FTL lounge.

Ok I can't spoke for FTLers but for SEN I have the experiance to allow my mother, wife and child into the lounge additionaly a friend which was also on the same flight :-) The person on the desk told me these differences ;-)

prollo Jan 22, 06 1:00 pm


Originally Posted by Grog
1 - No one guarantees that you even get the eVouchers with the cash payment
2 - One year
3 - Nope, not for FTLs.

So a SEN can extent his SEN for an addional year for 1500€ (he should be a SEN+ member ;-) ?Some infos on the public web? Didn't hear before of this (since 2 friends didn't get this offer, they are now FTLer).

Rudi Jan 22, 06 8:42 pm


Originally Posted by prollo
So a SEN can extent his SEN for an addional year for 1500€ (he should be a SEN+ member ;-) ?Some infos on the public web? Didn't hear before of this (since 2 friends didn't get this offer, they are now FTLer).

'we' posted this (SEN only, and only for one more year) already years ago here on FlyerTalk.

No vouchers given out for such a bought one-year prolongation of SEN status.

Honorable Jan 23, 06 6:01 pm

United Airways discontinued as HON miles
 
Starting April 1st 2006 United Airlines flight don't anymore for HON Statusmiles :mad:
Living in the US it will be hard to maintain status.....Makes no sense to fly LH from PHL to SFO

DFW-SEN Jan 23, 06 6:27 pm


Originally Posted by Honorable
Starting April 1st 2006 United Airlines flight don't anymore for HON Statusmiles :mad:
Living in the US it will be hard to maintain status.....Makes no sense to fly LH from PHL to SFO

IMHO it also makes no sense for a German baaser airline to provide special benefits to somebody who mainly flies PHL to SFO.

Cheers, Stefan

Kiwi Flyer Jan 23, 06 6:31 pm

Its no different from SQ or NZ or NH or ... not counting for HON. It would be nice if they were included (in which case I'd qualify) but I can understand why miles & more doesnt include them.

Hans Dampf Jan 23, 06 7:46 pm


Originally Posted by rorschi
1500€ for access to owercrowded lounges and for one long-haul-upgrade? Come on...
Patrick


bravo patrick! could be my words ;)

bertheike Jan 24, 06 4:23 am


Originally Posted by Rudi
'we' posted this (SEN only, and only for one more year) already years ago here on FlyerTalk.

No vouchers given out for such a bought one-year prolongation of SEN status.

My two children age 10 and 12, also got last week an invitation for 1.500 Eur. to extend their SEN status. My wife did not get it. All 3 are ending 2/2006 their SEN status. The children now already got the silver card until 02/2008. My wife got nothing.
Not that I need it, ( we are all * gold with BD until summer 2007 already ), and in summer 06 we do a nice ex TIP trip in F which generates again gold until summer 2008 and enough miles for the next F award, but curious with LH, who gets the mail and who not.


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