New "improvements" of M&M 1 April 2006

Old Dec 30, 05, 9:53 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dia15222
Changes after the 1April06 Joke!
If you Fly in T,L,E you now need:
- 280 Segments to quallify as FTL
- 224 Segments to requalify Wow! That would have made you nearly Twice SEN!
- 823 Segments to qualify as a SEN, beeing FTL! That is 2,3 Flights per Day!

If you fly the middle-price (500 Miles/Segment):
- 70 Segments to qualify
- 56 Segments to requalify
- 208 Segments to qualify as a SEN (beeing FTL) so that is 88 Segments more!

If you fly Flexible-Eco or Cross-Border Eco (750 Miles/Segment)
- 47 Segments to qualify (Still 7 Segments more!)
- 38 Segments to requalify (Two Segments less!)
- 139 Segments to qualify as SEN (beeng FTL) 19 More!

If you fly Domestic-Biz: (1500 Miles/Segment)
- 23 BIZ Segments (3 More than before)
- 19 BIZ Segments (1 Less than before)
- 70 BIZ Segments to requalify as a SEN (10 More!!!)
with 23 biz segments you'll even miss FTL by 500 miles, just earned 34.5k, so you have to do at least a Y-fare oneway to make it happen. That's great.

But 280 segments in T,L,E is even better. they'd love you for doing this. Trying to go for Sen this way you'd have to do about 889 segments, so at least 2 segments a day. Have fun.
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Old Dec 30, 05, 10:01 am
  #32  
 
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IMHO these changes make a lot of sense and will stop the deflation of FTL and SEN Status over the last 10 years. It will prevent that SEN lounges are overcrowded with people who earned their status with MRs in cheapo Y........

I remember when I first became SEN in the mid 90s you had to do 300 segments in domestic Y (with 500 miles per segment and no segment count) to become SEN. SEN status was mainly for people flying intercontinental in paid C and F...... At that time the number of SENs was significantely lower and you could expect great service....

I am glad to see that the new rules will help to reduce the number of SENs again and hopefully the service for SENs will increase again

Cheers, Stefan.
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Old Dec 30, 05, 10:14 am
  #33  
 
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You really have a point, I totally agree!
Perhaps, we "true" SEN's then also receive some more EVouchers... (just dreaming)
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Old Dec 30, 05, 10:36 am
  #34  
 
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Does that mean we won't be getting the exec bonus on UA come 1 Apr 06 since we won't get HON miles?
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Old Dec 30, 05, 10:39 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by DFW-SEN
IMHO these changes make a lot of sense and will stop the deflation of FTL and SEN Status over the last 10 years. It will prevent that SEN lounges are overcrowded with people who earned their status with MRs in cheapo Y........

I remember when I first became SEN in the mid 90s you had to do 300 segments in domestic Y (with 500 miles per segment and no segment count) to become SEN. SEN status was mainly for people flying intercontinental in paid C and F...... At that time the number of SENs was significantely lower and you could expect great service....

I am glad to see that the new rules will help to reduce the number of SENs again and hopefully the service for SENs will increase again

Cheers, Stefan.
PLEASE !!!!!

Never ever compare the aviation industry in the early 1990`s and today...., absolutely impossible...

And the great service was because of significantly higher budgets per customer, not because the number of elite customers was lower...

And do you really think after all those cutbacks that they bring back perks for Sen cardholders after they introduced Hon status ?



When will the segment qualification ends ? Is it also in effect for qualification based on segments in C and F class ?
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Old Dec 30, 05, 10:41 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by DFW-SEN
IMHO these changes make a lot of sense and will stop the deflation of FTL and SEN Status over the last 10 years. It will prevent that SEN lounges are overcrowded with people who earned their status with MRs in cheapo Y........

I remember when I first became SEN in the mid 90s you had to do 300 segments in domestic Y (with 500 miles per segment and no segment count) to become SEN. SEN status was mainly for people flying intercontinental in paid C and F...... At that time the number of SENs was significantely lower and you could expect great service....

I am glad to see that the new rules will help to reduce the number of SENs again and hopefully the service for SENs will increase again

Cheers, Stefan.
Dear Stefan.

I think that may be a dream!
This wont happen! What they took form you the wont give you back!
The Segment Count was introduced very early. And the Miles needed to become SEN were much lower in the beginning. And there were the floating Membership years! So it was not so hard as you may descirbed it!
And before the Milege-Based Status you were appointed by some LH Staff.
My father got his FTL Card without any Mile, just because he was a good customer!
And if you compare the prices form that time, the Full-Fares have dramatically increased. I recently found a Pricelist for Domestic LH Travel form the early nineties. The prices are nearly the same as today but at that Time they were in DM (so about just the half of now!). Traveling mostly in C and Flexible Tickets I do not get something from the cheap tickets besides one or two leisure trips. These are now even more unatrractive than before.
If you compare prices: On a domestic C-Ticket (Price 550 Euro) you will get
3000 Miles + Exec-Bonus. Buy a cheap Intercontinental Ticket and you will get much more for less. I dont mind 125 Miles of very cheap tickets (till now you got at least a Segment!). What I mind is that they take from people paying full-fare!
Just look in the Lounges. Many People are *G with other Programs.
If you think that there are too many SEN, try to get HON! This may be the right Product for you!
BTW I will requalify this year with my travel plans.
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Old Dec 30, 05, 10:58 am
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by andre1970
PS What scares me most with LH is the yet-to-come enhancements...
I am with andre1970.
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. Who knows whether that webpage is even final... Is there a German version of it anywhere ?


edited to add:

ok, you can get to this page from the m&m frontpage, so I am assuming it's final for now. There is also a German version at:
http://www.miles-and-more.com/online...nodeid=1548509

Last edited by roesner; Dec 30, 05 at 11:02 am Reason: Found it...
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Old Dec 30, 05, 11:56 am
  #38  
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I'm indifferent about most of this enhancement, but one aspect has really pleased me heaps:
You will no longer be able to earn HON Circle miles on flights operated by United Airlines in the future.
This should really help control the HON numbers to actual LH flyers rather than domestic north-american and transpac UA flyers. ^ ^
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Old Dec 30, 05, 12:25 pm
  #39  
 
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Does anyone remember that last year and the beginning of this year LH was giving out FREE SEN and FTL status (so called Status Match)? I think that plays also into this "new" improvement. The numbers of status customers went up, using and abusing it and we, who really earned their status, actually have to suffer.
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Old Dec 30, 05, 12:29 pm
  #40  
 
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Question best to switch to another programm...

Well, I think for people like me who fly cheap eco mostly intra German it's impossible to get status by EQS now .
@:-) So it seems best to switch to another FF programm and maybe still reach *G there...
best regards,
zap!

Last edited by zap7; Dec 31, 05 at 4:26 am Reason: Many questions discussed on this thread, but more to changes in M&M so my one (alternative programms) got lost in all the other answers
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Old Dec 30, 05, 12:52 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by zap7
Hi,
having just reached FTL with 40 segments with only 6000 status miles, I wonder what to do to keep status (lounge access, priority check-in) when flying nearly only intra-German L and T fares. @:-) Can I just switch to Air Canada's, United's or US Air's elite programms and have my LH flights credited there to reach * Gold?

Is it correct that you can reach
AC elite (*G) by 50 segments
UA Premier Exec (*G) by 60 segments
US Gold Preferred (*G) by 60 segments?


Can I just credit my LH (and Austrian) flights to one of theese programms and do they count as segments even if they are the cheapest L, T or even E fares? Which one would you recommend (20-30 intra German trips and one to the US per year)?

Thanks for your help, have a nice sylvester party and a great new year enjoying whichever FF programm you use ,
best regards,
zap!
Well, if your wife/gf is expecting a baby, you could ask for "Maintaining your status when you take a baby break http://www.miles-and-more.com/online/portal/mam/de/programm/how_it_works?l=en&nodeid=499159", that would give you another year
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Old Dec 30, 05, 12:53 pm
  #42  
 
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I am sure LH will instruct their lounge dragons to enfore the "*G lounge access only on international itineraries" policy...
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Old Dec 30, 05, 1:02 pm
  #43  
 
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How do you understand the UA / Hon Circle miles section? The wording is quite confusing, at least to me. Is the non-qualification of UA flights as of now as it says on the "enhancement" page, or as of April 1, as it says on the M&M start page?
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Old Dec 30, 05, 1:02 pm
  #44  
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Looking back to the beginning

Okay,

lets have a look how M&Ms development was in the past. From my point of view, to judge about the new enhancement, one should look also at the beginning of M&M.


01/1993
introduction of LH Miles and More in Germany for the mass of Travellers.
There was no EQM, only RDM could have earned.

Mimimun Miles on domestic flights and flights to Austria Switzerland , Belgium, Nether-lands, Luxembourg, East Europe were
Y: 500
C: 1000

Minimum Miles on European and international flights
Y 1000
C 2000
F 3000

(additional you got an extra RDM if you flew to Canada / USA -> Y + 2500 / C + 5000 / F +7500)


11/1994
introduction of Status (no segments, 50000 EQM for FTL / 150000 EQM for SEN); EQM could only earned on LH flights.

BTW, I just read the old brochure, you were able to enter the RCC if you flew UA as FTL in this time. I was not aware of this fact.

Also a change in the earning scheme, now only domestic flights and flights to Austria, Swit-zerland, Luxemboug, earn
Y: 500
C: 1000

All other countries earn mim. Y 1000 / C 2000


09/1997

Now, You got 1000 EQM/ RDM for domestic Y segments and 2000 EQM / RDM for domes-tic C segments. Also the qualifying by segments (EQS) were introduced


09/1998
You were able to earn EQS / EQM on all Star Alliance flights.

To me, this both changes were a real improvement, especially as this was the time, I began to collect miles really instead of only three or four flights in the years since I joined M&M in April 93. And in this time, M&M was all we now look back, dreaming of the good old days. But we should also be aware of the time before.


02/1999
introduction of LH Visa
Since 2002 all miles of LH VISA card holders did not expire anymore.


04/2003
Changing the earning scheme, you only got 500 mls on cheap Y tickets (L/T) and no EQS.


08/2004
Earning scheme was heavily changed (we all know, how), but every flight earned an EQS again.

Hon was introduced

Honestly, the best time was between 1997 / 1998 and August 2004. LH has mad a decision, they focus on the business traveller, not on the normal leisure traveller with four flights in cheap Y fares. Personally, I doubt the lounges will really get less crowded in peak time (which I try to avoid, which is quite easy, as the fares in off-peak are cheaper) as you can buy business lounges access by buing an US Club Pass (with add-on) or a RCC membership for app. 500 US$. If lounge access is the only thing you need, this could be one possibility or a Priority Pass. I think, FTL should still be reachable for me, though I am a leisure flyer. But having two or three International trips, this should still be possible.

LC is as written focusing on the business traveller or the hard core leisure traveller (aka Flyertalker).

Jan

P.S.
I hope I do not forget a major change in my little M&M history.

Last edited by FLYGVA; Dec 30, 05 at 1:06 pm Reason: forget some tags
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Old Dec 30, 05, 1:07 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by FlorianGrassl
You really have a point, I totally agree!
Perhaps, we "true" SEN's then also receive some more EVouchers... (just dreaming)
Do you think, we should really do this... Sen is Sen as long as you got it. If you make it with C it's better for your comfort but that's it. BTW. I also requalifed for Sen and will do in future.

Originally Posted by roesner
I am with andre1970.
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. Who knows whether that webpage is even final... Is there a German version of it anywhere ?
Yes it is. Already (or still) on the mainpage. www.miles-and-more.de

Originally Posted by JetSet101
Is it correct that you can reach
AC elite (*G) by 50 segments
UA Premier Exec (*G) by 60 segments
US Gold Preferred (*G) by 60 segments?

Can I just credit my LH (and Austrian) flights to one of theese programms and do they count as segments even if they are the cheapest L, T or even E fares? Which one would you recommend (20-30 intra German trips and one to the US per year)?
Actually I don't think that'll gonna work that way. As far as I know at least UA just counts UA flights but not LH. Not sure about US and AC. But I think you can't make it that way. And if it would be still possible they'll find a way to fix this 'problem'. Please correct me if I am totally wrong.

Take care totti
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