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-   Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Brussels, LOT and Other Partners | Miles & More (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more-495/)
-   -   New "improvements" of M&M 1 April 2006 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/508854-new-improvements-m-m-1-april-2006-a.html)

Volasia Dec 30, 05 4:42 am

I'm wondering if a *G status is then more valuable given the new rules. For example, for 35k you get *G with AC and can access any Star Lounge with your partner and check in at Senator desk. Am I right ?

flysurfer Dec 30, 05 4:50 am


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
I'm wondering if a *G status is then more valuable given the new rules. For example, for 35k you get *G with AC and can access any Star Lounge with your partner and check in at Senator desk. Am I right ?

Yeah, but 35k miles aren't 35k miles on different programs/carriers. Also, lounge access is just one of many perks.

Personally, I don't use lounges often. I tend to be at the airport just in time. I'm really pretty good at that. :)

The only "lounge" I do care about is the FCT in FRA.

totti Dec 30, 05 4:51 am


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
I'm wondering if a *G status is then more valuable given the new rules. For example, for 35k you get *G with AC and can access any Star Lounge with your partner and check in at Senator desk. Am I right ?

yeah, but with AC it is not that easy to reach 35k. you won't have 200%C/300%F bonus on longhaul and won't have that much min miles on higher fares like B in econ or C on intra-european flights. If you just fly longhaul eco as you suggested it's much better taking AC or another *A program

Volasia Dec 30, 05 5:08 am


Originally Posted by totti
yeah, but with AC it is not that easy to reach 35k. you won't have 200%C/300%F bonus on longhaul and won't have that much min miles on higher fares like B in econ or C on intra-european flights. If you just fly longhaul eco as you suggested it's much better taking AC or another *A program

Yeah I think you got a point. F, C and Europe are not very well awarded. But if you can get *G, you will be able to access Senator lounges which are less crowded and more welcoming, aren't they ?

flysurfer Dec 30, 05 5:14 am


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
But if you can get *G, you will be able to access Senator lounges which are less crowded and more welcoming, aren't they ?

Nah, the "less crowded and more welcoming" part is quite a myth (because the FTL lounges are often the less crowded ones), and the "access Senator lounges" perk doesn't work everywhere for *G.

And, you know, maybe the next enhancement will be to send *G to the FTL lounges at even more locations or as a general rule, now that there's going to be more space there after the April "no companion" change. And maybe, just maybe, that might lead to service enhancements in the SEN lounges. OK, now I'm really dreaming.

weero Dec 30, 05 5:17 am

all hail mileage plus
 

Originally Posted by flysurfer
..Not too bad for many, though nothing will change for me, personally..

No ambitions to become HON-lite anymore :confused: ?

Lets count the weeks until SENs can no longer bring companions into the
lounge. I guess that 'upgrade' is due August or next New Year's present.

Mayrhuber's Yakuza sure is working on the issue. Now that they learnt that
you can berieve customers from two sides - applying fraudulent taxes and
well chosen crippling of the program.

..Oh, and the one-way award "discount" of 25% is really an additional fee of 50%. :) But that's typical LH marketing speech...
Unlike QF where one-way awards only cost half miles of return. Of course only
after QF doubled the required miles for an award.

Originally Posted by andre1970
..Also, the HON Circle "enhancement" (anyone in this forum predicted that the HON Circle were soon to be enhanced?) gives us a measure of the number of UA-flyer HONs. Too big..

Indeed and they solved the issue with the well tested Mayrhuber algorithm:
make the tiers hard to reach rather than to expand the lounges.

Despite owning LH shares, I really hope that this ongoing inconsistency and
fiddling with the program rules does fire back at the current management.
They adopted the operational principles of politicians. That one always gets
away with not keeping promises or commitments.
But it's not happening easily. Of course they loose the US HONs but they did
not want them in the first place. Only if pax abandon the sinking M&L
they might feel it somewhat - LH just has no need to run a Mileage Plus :td: .

Volasia Dec 30, 05 5:27 am


Originally Posted by weero
Despite owning LH shares, I really hope that this ongoing inconsistency and
fiddling with the program rules does fire back at the current management.
:td: .

Which leads me to a question: do you get any particular client advantages by owning LH shares?

dia15222 Dec 30, 05 5:41 am

This is a typical misinterpretion:
Customer says: Lounges are overcrowded - wants expansions of the lounges.
Mangement does: Throws some people out of the lounge, losing many customers.

What may come next:
If LH thinks that the C-Lounges are now less crowded (which i doubt, see my previous post). Than all *G members will get the allowence to visit only the C-Lounges...

The next step is that FTLs traveling only can use the Lounge when traveling on Full-Fare Y Tickets! (Like BMI!).

Then they could restrict the Lounge-Acces only when your last digit of your ticket number is odd....

What cost can you generate in an FTL-Lounge? You only get Softdrinks, Beer and Coffee. No expensive stuff!

Sorry LH.

flysurfer Dec 30, 05 5:42 am


Originally Posted by weero
No ambitions to become HON-lite anymore :confused: ?

I've never had any AMBITION to reach any kind of "status" with an airline. I'm not emotional about plastic cards. I can get emotional about fair treatment, decent service (or the lack of it), though.

Of course, when you travel a lot, it's nice to have some perks. But for me, status alone is not a GOAL, it's just a more or less simple calculation, incorporating the (monetary and personal) value I assign to perks like miles, upgrades, lounges, SWUs, award flights and so on. If I think it's a good deal, I'll go for it. If not, bye-bye.


Originally Posted by weero
Lets count the weeks until SENs can no longer bring companions into the lounge. I guess that 'upgrade' is due August or next New Year's present.

Quite unlikely, as the companion access is a reciprocal *G perk throughout *A. However, FTL/BUS lounges may eventually become LH's *G lounges. Personally, I wouldn't mind.


Originally Posted by weero
Mayrhuber's Yakuza...

Whoa, getting emotional about LH again? Relax! :)


Originally Posted by weero
Despite owning LH shares, I really hope that this ongoing inconsistency and fiddling with the program rules does fire back at the current management.

Dr. Weero and Mr. Hyde? :D

Btw, I find it suboptimal to own plain LH shares. My investment in LH is constructed in a way that I'm making good money when the stock goes up, goes down or doesn't move at all - all within a carefully chosen stock price band which makes it highly unlikely for me to lose money. My last LH investment was in April 2005, and it's already up more than 25%.


Originally Posted by weero
Only if pax abandon the sinking M&L
they might feel it somewhat

Yeah, right. Like that's ever gonna happen. I mean, even YOU aren't capable of divorcing LH. :D

JNBHEL Dec 30, 05 6:11 am


Originally Posted by flysurfer
HONs now really have to fly their 600,000 miles on LH and integrated partners, or it's game over

Wouldn't be suprised to hear less US English in the FCT and more Swiss-German in the future. LX heavy flyers might well fill up the HON instead of UA ones... This must have played a role here.

Sonwende Dec 30, 05 6:21 am

Sorry LH, you really forgot FTL with 75k status miles a year! What is my benefit? I can forget on private trips in Y the advantage of lounge, because I'm mostly traveling with my girlfrind or a friend.

If I travel alone on business trips in C, the access is given and I can share the overcrowded lounge with a lot of other traveles, 35k is really easy, two flights in C to US in booked in Z and you have it.

LH, please remember a C-class ticket costs round about 3 to 4k (Z to US east coast not considered!)

What will come next? Shout i bring my water to the lounge?

LH, look to other business longes ... e.g. Cathey in HKG ...

flysurfer Dec 30, 05 6:40 am


Originally Posted by JNBHEL
Wouldn't be suprised to hear less US English in the FCT and more Swiss-German in the future. LX heavy flyers might well fill up the HON instead of UA ones... This must have played a role here.

I'd guess some mileage runners on crazy multi-stop 2-class domestic F itineraries may have played a role, too.

totti Dec 30, 05 7:42 am


Originally Posted by Sonwende
Sorry LH, you really forgot FTL with 75k status miles a year! What is my benefit? I can forget on private trips in Y the advantage of lounge, because I'm mostly traveling with my girlfrind or a friend.

What will come next? Shout i bring my water to the lounge?

You're damm right. M&L is going down and down. SInce I am flying enough to achieve Sen, I'm not that angry but would change FF program if I'd fly less intra-german. I know a lot guys like Sonwende having arround 75k-100k most on LH-metal. But they'll lose a lot miles when changing program cause most other *A programs don't reward the intra-german flights that good as M&L does. :td:
Really to bad, but there is no real alternative :(

CalFlyer Dec 30, 05 8:12 am

I do not think that the changes are too unreasonable. To the contrary, they obviously correct some loopholes in the current program. In the long run, I want a financially stable and sound Lufthansa behind M&M -- and the M&M program is to reward those customers that contribute most. I do not want Lufthansa to spend much money on an FCT extension for UA HONs who prefer not to spend their dollars with LH. I do not want Lufthansa to spend much money on FTL/SEN benefits for passengers who earn their status on segments only, choosing dirt cheap fares. Lufthansa should better invest those funds into the cash cows in their client base.
BTW: The lowering of the miles levels for reaching SEN (now 130K) and FTL (now 35K) in my opinion is mostly a late reflection of the fact that the new earning rules introduced last year would otherwise diminish the number of SENs and FTLs significantly next year.

dia15222 Dec 30, 05 9:36 am

OK I did not read it correctly. The lack of Segments is a hit for all Domestc-German Flyers! After Losing the most after 01AUG04 now they mostly lose theis Status.
Before 01AUG05 it was: 40 Flights in Eco = 40* 1000 Miles + 25 Miles Exec = 50.000 Miles

Since that you got: Less Miles but requalified!

Changes after the 1April06 Joke!
If you Fly in T,L,E you now need:
- 280 Segments to quallify as FTL
- 224 Segments to requalify Wow! That would have made you nearly Twice SEN!
- 823 Segments to qualify as a SEN, beeing FTL! That is 2,3 Flights per Day!

If you fly the middle-price (500 Miles/Segment):
- 70 Segments to qualify
- 56 Segments to requalify
- 208 Segments to qualify as a SEN (beeing FTL) so that is 88 Segments more!

If you fly Flexible-Eco or Cross-Border Eco (750 Miles/Segment)
- 47 Segments to qualify (Still 7 Segments more!)
- 38 Segments to requalify (Two Segments less!)
- 139 Segments to qualify as SEN (beeng FTL) 19 More!

If you fly Domestic-Biz: (1500 Miles/Segment)
- 23 BIZ Segments (3 More than before)
- 19 BIZ Segments (1 Less than before)
- 70 BIZ Segments to requalify as a SEN (10 More!!!)

If you want to qualify as a SEN it looks more dramatically.
So Flyers who only fly domestically will naturally lose ther Staus.

I mostly travel in C. On very rare occasions I used to travel in Cheap Eco. Now I see no point in that. I will get almost no miles!
My Wife (Who is FTL) cannot take a guest with her traveling!

Surly LH hates their domestic travelers.
But there is still lots of room for improvements:
Domestic Travelers have to clean the Plane, do the dishes, bring something to eat for the crew, have to wear a Sign "I AM A LOUSY DOMESTIC TRAVELLER, KICK ME!".
What a ....!


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