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-   Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Brussels, LOT and Other Partners | Miles & More (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more-495/)
-   -   New "improvements" of M&M 1 April 2006 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/508854-new-improvements-m-m-1-april-2006-a.html)

OliverLHfan Jan 4, 06 11:03 am

Thank you Flying Lawyer for your post. Everyhting is said. So we can close this thread ?!? :D

weero Jan 4, 06 7:37 pm

[cakes]

Originally Posted by flysurfer
Priceless!

You are most welcome! But I am not making this up, I always prey for the
for leftover cakes, and they would never ever grant me a second one.
I offered them cash, my main dish, gadgets from Taiwan - all at no avail :eek: .

Originally Posted by OliverLHfan
Thank you Flying Lawyer for your post. Everyhting is said. So we can close this thread ?!? :D

Should - for the sake of politeness - Torsten71 ask for this? You
cannot really just close his thread .. sounds rude-ish to me.

Torsten71 Jan 5, 06 12:22 am


Originally Posted by weero
Should - for the sake of politeness - Torsten71 ask for this? You
cannot really just close his thread .. sounds rude-ish to me.

:D I wouldn't mind, but that's the sole decision of the mods, I think. However, it was good to see a thread I started with so many answers and views. A first-timer for me on FT.
Let's all make the best out of the changes M&L is giving to us.

Cheers,
Torsten

flysurfer Jan 5, 06 1:57 am

This thread can go on forever, because new "improvements" of M&M will go on forever - as well as their implementation and the practical consequences they have for us faithful subjects.

totti Jan 5, 06 4:05 am


Originally Posted by flysurfer
This thread can go on forever, because new "improvements" of M&M will go on forever - as well as their implementation and the practical consequences they have for us faithful subjects.

As is written on m&M homepage: 'The Miles & More programme is constantly under development. To get information about all the new features and changes, please take a look at the following items.'

Let's see want's comes next.

mith Jan 5, 06 4:28 am

Hi Grog, did you see Joschka Fischer on this plane? Well, he was probably in envoy, but I am quite sure i saw him at the gate in PHL tuesday afternoon.

Well, now that segments don't count anymore, no reason not to fly germanwings instead of LH, as you definitively get more redeemable miles there than with LH ELTU fares (via payback). Maybe this new move has something to do with the 100 % takeover of euro/germanwings by LH.

The main thing I am pissed off about, is the FTL-companion in lounge thing. This will probably lead to more divorces. Well, maybe our infamous STC into M/M integration and women in leadership position specialist Kerstin R. didn't like to see those German Hausfrauen in the business lounges. Okay I am mainly pissed, because this was one of the reasons I went for status and spend the extra bucks to fly/rail LH more than neccessary and now they take this perk away even for people who earned the status previously. It would be okay to say, companions of FTL card - expiring 2/07 and 2/08 - holders will still be accepted.


Originally Posted by Grog
First, HNY, all. I just got off of a USAir PHL-FRA flight in Y. A330. Very enjoyable, too; solid service for eco. And AVOD IFE at every Y seat--I can't even remember how many movies we were able to choose from. Why anyone would choose LH Y transatlantic, I just can't understand. With M&M, just as with LH Y, the market deserves what it gets.


totti Jan 5, 06 10:19 am


Originally Posted by mith
Okay I am mainly pissed, because this was one of the reasons I went for status and spend the extra bucks to fly/rail LH more than neccessary and now they take this perk away even for people who earned the status previously. It would be okay to say, companions of FTL card - expiring 2/07 and 2/08 - holders will still be accepted.

If this is the only perk you wanna have, you should probably think of joining UA RCC. That's cheaper than doing some AirRail trips and will give you excess to much more lounges.

fradoc Jan 5, 06 12:58 pm


Originally Posted by totti
...will give you excess to much more lounges.

Nice Freudian...

Also I am quite pissed about the "Wir müssen leider draußen bleiben" (We have to stay out)-rule. I considere the lounge access as an important perk, especially if on leisure travel with my honey. Now, there is one reason less for justifying my miliomania. I wonder, if they did some stats on lounge usage (like DB does).
Clearly, SEN has been "upgraded" by devaluating FTL.
I will write a complain letter to LH, just to let them know my anger.

roundtheworld Jan 5, 06 1:21 pm


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer
No zeroes for me ;)

mhh didn;t you fly FRA ZRH on the 2nd so you immediatly recharged your account....

Flying Lawyer Jan 5, 06 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by mith
Okay I am mainly pissed, because this was one of the reasons I went for status and spend the extra bucks to fly/rail LH more than neccessary and now they take this perk away even for people who earned the status previously.

Guys, be serious. What is the benefit for the airline in giving valuable status to people having "to fly/rail LH more than neccessary" to reach 50k miles? And v/v: What is the benefit for customer "to fly/rail LH more than neccessary" just to impress cumstomer's honey once a year on a W or T class flight to whereever or to get two free cokes on this occaison? Hey, get a Diner's Club card or become a member of the RCC, that will give you similar (or even better) benefits.

Space in the lounges is limited, rents in the airports are expensive and the airlines cannot convert the full airport into a lounge. If space is limited, it can only be distributed between a certain number of people. And I appreciate that the airlines keep it open and comfortable for the customers spending the hell on tickets.

Cheers
T.

Grog Jan 5, 06 4:58 pm


Originally Posted by mith
Hi Grog, did you see Joschka Fischer on this plane? Well, he was probably in envoy, but I am quite sure i saw him at the gate in PHL tuesday afternoon.
...
The main thing I am pissed off about, is the FTL-companion in lounge thing. This will probably lead to more divorces.
...
It would be okay to say, companions of FTL card - expiring 2/07 and 2/08 - holders will still be accepted.

Hi mith,

No sign of Joschka or his multitude of wives :p . If he was in Envoy class, he either didn't go to or didn't stay in the Envoy lounge for any length of time. Me and the Mrs. enjoyed the light buffet right up until boarding time.

And I agree completely on your FTL-companion opinion. So many companies 'enhance' their programs after-the-fact of earning status. Not good, not fair, but somehow expected none the less.

Grog Jan 5, 06 5:12 pm


Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
Guys, be serious. What is the benefit for the airline in giving valuable status to people having "to fly/rail LH more than neccessary" to reach 50k miles?
...
Space in the lounges is limited, rents in the airports are expensive and the airlines cannot convert the full airport into a lounge. If space is limited, it can only be distributed between a certain number of people. And I appreciate that the airlines keep it open and comfortable for the customers spending the hell on tickets.

Cheers
T.

We're serious. Just take us serious, please. The benefit to us was clear to LH obviously (or LH would have never been offered in the first place). And it was published, then withdrawn prematurely from us. Just as LH grandfathers SENs into a financial commitment concerning overdraft miles.

Space is limited in many airports because it's wasted (for lack of a better word) due to construction designs. Just how tall are the vast open spaces in front of and above FRA's check-in desks? Lots of heated dead space for no reason. I say space is limited only by choice of both the airport (in FRA's case, owned by LH from time to time) and by choice of the airline.

Anyway, it's not about space or rent; it's about what that mid-level customer is willing to put up with from LH. Take that to the bank...

andyZRH Jan 5, 06 5:41 pm


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
Well, by posting this, I was hoping somone would say: LH is going to upgrade IFE in Economy Class. But apparently not.

I hate to say this, but probably it just doesn't make sense commercially. See below... :rolleyes:


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
I cannot understand how they can sell longhaul tickets with such a bad product.

That's simply because the vast majority of leisure travellers always runs for the lowest fare.
No matter how much cr*p the airlines throw at them, how long the check-in lines, how surly and incompetent the staff, how tight the seats, how disgusting and scarce the food, how long the wait for the checked bags...
Maybe there's some whining to friends and family after the trip, but next time they travel they'll go for the cheapest carrier again.

weero Jan 5, 06 7:17 pm

guilt and atonement
 

Originally Posted by andyZRH
..That's simply because the vast majority of leisure travellers always runs for the lowest fare..

Yes. Lufthansa really roams that market and goes for it. And it seems to
work as for the long haul routes, there are no LCCs yet. And even if
there were, they would not have a stand against LH.

..Maybe there's some whining to friends and family after the trip, but next time they travel they'll go for the cheapest carrier again.
Of course incompetence and lack and spirit of planning are reasons why this
can happen. But they are not the only ones: paying a higher fare does not
save you from these problems. Plus - especially in Europe and Oz - pax are
confronted with a more and more mysterious market gearing: the gap between
bearable flying (that would be C and up on LH) and affordable flying gets
wider and wider. And now M&L has even de facto abolished the FFP for Y
travelers, whereas C turned into a super-luxurious class.
What I cannot explain is why they get away with it: is their market shaping power
so great that they can extort a ridiculous amount of assets from Business
travelers as they lack an alternative or is it simply market driven?
I.e. is the number of people such as I who could afford to ride in style but
not in luxury really that small?
The discrepancy in Europe is not yet as bad as here: the average transpac
D or Z class here costs 6-7 times more than the average S or T class. And
about 5 times more than a W (7K vs. 1.4K). So this is where it goes when
there is no competition on those routes.
So what is it that keeps a fourth class between Y- and C+ (or Y-- and C++
on LH) from emerging?

flysurfer Jan 6, 06 4:53 am


Originally Posted by weero
So what is it that keeps a fourth class between Y- and C+ (or Y-- and C++ on LH) from emerging?

Many carriers have this 4th class already, so I wouldn't rule it out on LH in the long run.

It would probably mean that upgrades will become even more expensive and that we will have to say good-bye to affordable year-round Z fares.


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