Irreg to SIN with business ticket in Z upgraded with fixed price

Old Aug 24, 2023, 6:58 pm
  #1  
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Angry Irreg to SIN with business ticket in Z upgraded with fixed price

Hello,
i now have a problem with LH.
I was booked DUS-FRA-SIN in Biz (in Biz Z) but with upsell Upgrade to First with LH today 24th August..
I upgraded by fix offer of both longhaul routes on LH 778 and LH 779 with 1250€ each.

So problem started with cancelation of my feeder flight LH87 to FRA due to whether problems. By calling the service line I was rebooked on a train ticket to FRA scheduled arrival 8.30 pm, but the train was canceled as well and my flight to SIN (LH778) was missed.I made it finally to FRA by taxi .
Since the LH personal at FRA( First class counter) was not really willing to help due to shortly quitting time I called the First class service line and they offered me to be rebooked on the next day night flight LH 778 in Biz. I told them that I have a paid (via Upsell) a First class ticket.
They just ignored this and said take it or leave it.
The next offered flight available in First was with LH 3 days later or with LX 2 days later. They never mentioned that with SQ First class flights were available!

According to EU261 LH has to rebook me on the first available flight possible with my booked classes.

I told them to rebook me on the SQ 25.flight leaving at about noon time tomorrow having First class seat available. They refused!!

So i booked a new one way ticket for incredible 7700€ in First class for the next day on SQ by myself. I informed LH via the First hotline that I rebooked myself and will them sue because of ignoring the EU law.
Since I will not get it resolved easily i have send a SMS & whatsapp to my attorny to take care of it and take care that my return flight will not be canceled..

Why does LH judge Upsell First Class transport as 2nd choice ?
You have a contract with LH by a proven issued EMD..
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Old Aug 24, 2023, 9:44 pm
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Originally Posted by Lufthansi
Hello,
i now have a problem with LH.
I was booked DUS-FRA-SIN in Biz (in Biz Z) but with upsell Upgrade to First with LH today 24th August..
I upgraded by fix offer of both longhaul routes on LH 778 and LH 779 with 1250€ each.

So problem started with cancelation of my feeder flight LH87 to FRA due to whether problems. By calling the service line I was rebooked on a train ticket to FRA scheduled arrival 8.30 pm, but the train was canceled as well and my flight to SIN (LH778) was missed.I made it finally to FRA by taxi .
Since the LH personal at FRA( First class counter) was not really willing to help due to shortly quitting time I called the First class service line and they offered me to be rebooked on the next day night flight LH 778 in Biz. I told them that I have a paid (via Upsell) a First class ticket.
They just ignored this and said take it or leave it.
The next offered flight available in First was with LH 3 days later or with LX 2 days later. They never mentioned that with SQ First class flights were available!

According to EU261 LH has to rebook me on the first available flight possible with my booked classes.

I told them to rebook me on the SQ 25.flight leaving at about noon time tomorrow having First class seat available. They refused!!

So i booked a new one way ticket for incredible 7700€ in First class for the next day on SQ by myself. I informed LH via the First hotline that I rebooked myself and will them sue because of ignoring the EU law.
Since I will not get it resolved easily i have send a SMS & whatsapp to my attorny to take care of it and take care that my return flight will not be canceled..

Why does LH judge Upsell First Class transport as 2nd choice ?
You have a contract with LH by a proven issued EMD..
Terrible, you are right & they are in the wrong but their behaviour comes as no surprise, they seem to think they do not need to follow rules or simply look after customers
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Old Aug 24, 2023, 11:01 pm
  #3  
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Originally Posted by Lufthansi
Hello,
i now have a problem with LH.
I was booked DUS-FRA-SIN in Biz (in Biz Z) but with upsell Upgrade to First with LH today 24th August..
I upgraded by fix offer of both longhaul routes on LH 778 and LH 779 with 1250€ each.

So problem started with cancelation of my feeder flight LH87 to FRA due to whether problems. By calling the service line I was rebooked on a train ticket to FRA scheduled arrival 8.30 pm, but the train was canceled as well and my flight to SIN (LH778) was missed.I made it finally to FRA by taxi .
Since the LH personal at FRA( First class counter) was not really willing to help due to shortly quitting time I called the First class service line and they offered me to be rebooked on the next day night flight LH 778 in Biz. I told them that I have a paid (via Upsell) a First class ticket.
They just ignored this and said take it or leave it.
The next offered flight available in First was with LH 3 days later or with LX 2 days later. They never mentioned that with SQ First class flights were available!

According to EU261 LH has to rebook me on the first available flight possible with my booked classes.

I told them to rebook me on the SQ 25.flight leaving at about noon time tomorrow having First class seat available. They refused!!

So i booked a new one way ticket for incredible 7700€ in First class for the next day on SQ by myself. I informed LH via the First hotline that I rebooked myself and will them sue because of ignoring the EU law.
Since I will not get it resolved easily i have send a SMS & whatsapp to my attorny to take care of it and take care that my return flight will not be canceled..

Why does LH judge Upsell First Class transport as 2nd choice ?
You have a contract with LH by a proven issued EMD..
good luck!
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 2:40 am
  #4  
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SQ would not have accepted you as the underlying ticket is in Z. Strange that they didn't try to accomodate you at the airport, the team there has more power/flexibility. Since you are at the airport, I would go to the F counter again and ask to be rebooked to SQ.
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 3:33 am
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
SQ would not have accepted you as the underlying ticket is in Z. Strange that they didn't try to accomodate you at the airport, the team there has more power/flexibility. Since you are at the airport, I would go to the F counter again and ask to be rebooked to SQ.
First Class hotline should have had the empowerment to move the OP to SQF
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 5:16 am
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I believe when you buy fix price upgrade before the flight, the underlying fare conditions remain and in case of irrops you end up back in the originally booked cabin. That was the case for a friend of mine and me with LX. After some arguments with the HON line they were willing to rebook me in the upgraded class but my friend, who is SEN, they did not want to help.
It was only at the airport in ZRH where we finally found a nice lady who rebooked both of us in the front of the plane again.
On another case earlier this year my LH778 got cancelled and I was immediately rebooked to SQ the next day but that time I was on a fullfare F tix from the begin with (not paid upgrade).
Anyway, I am also in SIN now, flying back LH779
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 5:45 am
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Originally Posted by chris63
First Class hotline should have had the empowerment to move the OP to SQF
Question out of curiosity, does LH have to pay the full fare to SQ and has a negative balance on the account for the particular segment ?

If I assume, that a one way to SIN in Z is between 2000 - 2500 euro + the upgrade of 1250€ you are at about 4000 Euro, and the full fare on SQ was 7700 euro, there is a substantial gap for LH.
Can that be the reason?
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 5:52 am
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Originally Posted by f4freeJunior
I believe when you buy fix price upgrade before the flight, the underlying fare conditions remain and in case of irrops you end up back in the originally booked cabin. That was the case for a friend of mine and me with LX. After some arguments with the HON line they were willing to rebook me in the upgraded class but my friend, who is SEN, they did not want to help.
It was only at the airport in ZRH where we finally found a nice lady who rebooked both of us in the front of the plane again.
The fixed price upgrade indeed says this:
  • Please note that the fare conditions of your original ticket (like rebooking, refund, and baggage provisions) remain unchanged.

But that does not mean that you will be downgraded in case if IRROPS due to LH canceling the feeder. LH has an obligation to book the OP on the next available flight under comparable conditions, but they will try to Puch back as they always do.

Same with evoucher upgrades where LH will try to avoid rebooking on other carriers if they get away with it.
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 6:00 am
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Originally Posted by Kid Flyer
Question out of curiosity, does LH have to pay the full fare to SQ and has a negative balance on the account for the particular segment ?

If I assume, that a one way to SIN in Z is between 2000 - 2500 euro + the upgrade of 1250€ you are at about 4000 Euro, and the full fare on SQ was 7700 euro, there is a substantial gap for LH.
Can that be the reason?
Very unlikely especially on that routing, they have revenue sharing *A agreements in place, presumably some cost implications otherwise why decline to rebook
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 6:05 am
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Originally Posted by MichielR
The fixed price upgrade indeed says this:
  • Please note that the fare conditions of your original ticket (like rebooking, refund, and baggage provisions) remain unchanged.

But that does not mean that you will be downgraded in case if IRROPS due to LH canceling the feeder. LH has an obligation to book the OP on the next available flight under comparable conditions, but they will try to Puch back as they always do.

Same with evoucher upgrades where LH will try to avoid rebooking on other carriers if they get away with it.
Agree but why play hardball with premium pax ?

Plus, terms and conditions need to be fair & reasonable to be valid in Law, the OP paid to fly F, exactly the fare LH requested, none of their behaviour in this equates to fair & reasonable, let alone contrary to EU261
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 6:57 am
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nothing via LX in F??? There are a few too many threads right now regarding LH messing w/ F pax - downgrades not taken care of, irops re-bookings, luggage issues.

Someone must have clearly decided to stop trying to compete. Very very sad, because I quite like the LH product.

The OP should take LH to the courts (or start with the SOEP if so desired). The more often some of us decide they accept the invitation from LH to play hardball the sooner someone at LH will realize that they this is not a good idea.

True that SQ will have not accepted a straightforward re-booking from an upgraded Z, but there are ways for LH to make it happen. The OP was confirmed in F an EC reg does not differentiate here - time for LH to learn this the hard way
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 7:02 am
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Originally Posted by cfischer
nothing via LX in F??? There are a few too many threads right now regarding LH messing w/ F pax - downgrades not taken care of, irops re-bookings, luggage issues.

Someone must have clearly decided to stop trying to compete. Very very sad, because I quite like the LH product.

The OP should take LH to the courts (or start with the SOEP if so desired). The more often some of us decide they accept the invitation from LH to play hardball the sooner someone at LH will realize that they this is not a good idea.

True that SQ will have not accepted a straightforward re-booking from an upgraded Z, but there are ways for LH to make it happen. The OP was confirmed in F an EC reg does not differentiate here - time for LH to learn this the hard way
OP was offered LX F 2 days later

Dr Bose would Love this case.
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 7:11 am
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Originally Posted by chris63
OP was offered LX F 2 days later

Dr Bose would Love this case.
I saw that ... but I find it weird. I rarely see F0 with Swiss. Was just wondering if they were looking for A/O instead of F for the re-booking and whether the OP checked.
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 7:15 am
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Originally Posted by cfischer
I saw that ... but I find it weird. I rarely see F0 with Swiss. Was just wondering if they were looking for A/O instead of F for the re-booking and whether the OP checked.
Given the way the OP was treated, probably O.
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Old Aug 25, 2023, 7:22 am
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Originally Posted by Kid Flyer
Question out of curiosity, does LH have to pay the full fare to SQ and has a negative balance on the account for the particular segment ?

If I assume, that a one way to SIN in Z is between 2000 - 2500 euro + the upgrade of 1250€ you are at about 4000 Euro, and the full fare on SQ was 7700 euro, there is a substantial gap for LH.
Can that be the reason?
When a pax is rebooked under irreg situations defined by IATA reolution 735d the carrier accepting the passenger (SQ) gets the coupon value of the ticket which was issued by LH. So SQ would have only received the Z fare of the ticket, as the upgrade to F with the cash upgrade system is an 'additional service' accounted for with an EMD, which doesn't change the ticket coupon value. IATA guidance on irregs is:
RP1790 (additional services) recommends that in an IRROP, members may not involuntarily reroute additional services on to other members unless bilaterally agreed.
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/e...25june2020.pdf

SQ being part of *A would not have to endorse the rebooking in advance, so the pax would have show up at checkin and SQ would have had to tell him to go to LH and sort out the missing fare issue first.
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