Dan72

I don't understand the relevance of the contract. LH determine the contract and have decied that F and J main courses should largely be the same, which is the gensis of the concern.

Expecting a better menu in F is not unreasonable. It's an expectation that most carriers with F would meet. LH F is a good product, but not as good as it used to be. Offering much of the J menu in F, admittedly only on some routes, is part of the deterioration.

Also whether catering is better or not from the hubs is neither here nor there, as it has no bearing on whether seperate F and Jmenus are possible.

nologic

Wanting paid F seats over award seats has nothing to do with what product they are offering.

Given that menus are published by LH online 4 months in advance, including the wine list, anyone can review and comment on the offerings. You don't need to be a sommelier to know that ratings of 4.2 for the white champagne and 3.9 for the premium red, and retail list prices of $90 and $56, respectively, are sub-standard for international F. The airline itself is tacitly agreeing with this, serving Louise (4.4/$175) or LPGS (4.5/$215) virtually every other month except August.

Grand marque premium champagne is a bellwether marquis product for premium international first class. Pointing this out is far from "rubbishing" the airline which I haven't come close to doing.

Also, now that menus are freely published online, remarking that I think it sends the wrong message to serve identical C class entrees in F, may be criticizing this decision as a messaging mistake, but it is also far from rubbishing the airline. Otherwise, I've said nothing to complain about or denigrate the airline which I've only had good experiences with in the past. I see much worse complaints by LH pax throughout these boards.

NYC1

There's a lot of blaming the victim going on in this thread and deviations into the subjective/personal attacks. LH F catering (other than the Champagne, most of the time) is 1) materially worse than what it used to be 5-10-15 years ago (and this includes the catering right before covid compared to 5/10/15 years ago, so no covid excuses) and 2) way below the competition. Whether that's intentional or not, I don't really care but it's a fact and I am willing to bet that it's a direct result of a reduction of budget. Bizarrely, SN which is part of LHG, has great catering out of JFK--so it is possible--the airline just has to pay for it. There's no magic.

Do I choose a specific F service based on the food? It's certainly not my priority. I focus on schedule, quality of bed and general service/can do attitude. Sometimes, those priorities are satisfied by more than one airline, in which case I then look at lounges/catering, among other things. Maybe I'm an edge case and maybe LH doesn't care/need to care but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't call them on it. The issue raised by this post is not so much the overlap between C and F but really the fact that LH is serving C quality level main courses from the US to Germany. And by the way, the catering from FRA/MUC isn't really that much better (and it's not good).

chris63

The relevance of the contract is it’s what LH have agreed with the caterer at BOS, at no point have i said it’s good

Dan72

You said it was 'down to the contract'. It's not. It's down to Lufthansa's decision, unless you believe some state regulation prohibits the differentiation of F and J meals in airline catering contracts in Massachusetts?

chris63

Your splitting hairs

Of course it’s Lufthansa’s decision it’s what they agreed with the caterer at BOS & all of that is in a contract.

seanp7

Except that LH has been serving LP Alexandra (4.5/$250-300) consistently on almost every flight since late June/early July. But price != quality/taste, as I'm sure you are aware.

Are you actually going to fly on LH F? Might I suggest a trip report once completed, rather than this pre-flight menu analysis?

nologic

I will certainly do that but the Vivino ratings are pretty solid…a 4.2 rated $90 bottle is not appropriate as a premium champagne. Certainly LPGS is, and it’s a regular selection on multiple airlines. So is DP and and Krug, which are regular options on multiple airlines. And technically speaking the Alexandra qualifies, but numerous people have mentioned that it tends to run out, or be in limited supply.

Is it the be all end all of a good flight…nope, but if there’s a low/limited supply of the Alexandra, I would be disappointed, especially with a lackluster premium red.

One doesn’t have to have taken the flight to be able to comment on the wines which are now published and public.

As I’ve said, there are many other things that make up a good flight, but this is a catering/planning snafu at best, unless they compensate w an oversupply of the Alexandra.

But yes, I look forward to writing a trip report and sharing my perspectives on the entire day they fly/experience, including the ground experience.

seanp7

There were 4 bottles each on my last two flights, and on one of them they served Alexandra upon boarding before take-off. Hopefully your flight has the same.

Again, cost != quality all the time. I've had some phenomenal reds (usually Malbecs) that were < $25. YMMV.

Don't forget that not everyone drinks alcohol; and many people fly to sleep / be comfortable. Enjoy your flight and please report back on how it goes!

Howard Long

I had the Alexandra ten days ago on LH F, the FA had it open as I boarded: I could have anything I wanted, and considered a G&T, but glad I was mildly coerced into the Alexandra. I'm not typically a pink Champagne drinker, but this was mind-blowingly good: despite being a rose, it has a very distinct creaminess reminiscent of an oaky white Burgundy, so it was always going to win my palate. I couldn't get enough of it, and I convinced myself I'd get some for home. Well, that was until I discovered how much it was. Maybe I'll forgo the case and keep one or two for those very special occasions,

nologic

That’s encouraging although I think many have reported that they have run out of the Alexandra… And yes on an overnight flight, some people should be sleepers.

I know that cost doesn’t equal quality although I think there’s a general correlation… And there are always exceptions… But that’s why I went with the Vinino ratings which I find to be highly indicative of relative quality.

Veuve (Orange Label) for example is rated 4.3 while Bollinger Special Cuvée is rated 4.2 and Moet Imperial Brut is rated 4.1… I agree with these relative rankings. There’s a huge difference between a 4.1 to 4.3 and 4.5 to 4.6 for the grande marques. Generally speaking something needs to stand out for the ratings to pop to 4.5 and above.

So when I see a Thienot rated 4.2 (based on more than 600 ratings),it basically fits in with an upper business class champagne.

If the Thienot was rated 4.5 (based on more than 600 ratings), despite its $90 price, I’d be enthused in advance and anticipating a wonderful surprise…But based on these ratings, I am anticipating that it’s nice but nothing special, and its price reinforces that… In addition, again, the airline seems to agree, because this seems to be the only month where the Thienot is being offered.

Whether it’s a supply chain fill in or an intentional attempt to average down cost (or test the response), I don’t know.

I’m surprised more people aren’t disappointed that the premium red is only a 3.9 rated $56 bottle… I think a mid $50 bottle of wine as the premium red for International F is a pretty weak effort (I’m using MSRP… for these purposes…of course LH pays less on a wholesale basis). I would have expected the top red to be in the $80-$100 bottle range, and a 3.9 rating (based on 1700 ratings no less). I generally buy a $20 red wine with a 4.2 rating.

daumueller

You really must be fun at parties…

seanp7

You “think” or you know ? There’s a big difference

Your reliance on public wine ratings is somewhat flawed as those were on the ground and not at 38,000 feet. And I disagree that Moët is 4.1 (it’s less than that) but, as you know, ratings are subjective. Good luck with the trip!

nologic

I've said relative ratings, not absolute. So, if you go by Vivinos thousands of ratings, the majority of people would put Moet before Bollinger before Veuve Orange Label...some like you and I, may downgrade the delta between Moet and Bollinger, but we'd probably agree on the relative order, and none of them compare with the grande marques, and that's the basic point, isn't it? Shouldn't F champagne always be be a grande marque (although this Thienot might be their grande marque, but it's not a major league grande marque)...it doesn't seem remotely in the same league as the LPGS, let alone others...

Does anyone really disagree with this?

I have a lot of experience w Vivino ratings and I personally find a high correlation among the relative ratings. You may disagree, and that's fine. You sound critical because I haven't tasted it yet, and I'll be the first to acknowledge if I find it's a diamond in the rough. But 600+ other people/ratings disagree, which is why I am trying to divorce this discussion from my personal opinion and independent ratings.

I think the bigger question here is whether this champagne thing, together with the C class entree thing -- where it is obviously pretty unusual for an int'l F airline to have the same budget for C class entrees as F class entrees (let alone identical entrees) -- is part of a strategic diminution of LH F?

There are lots of premium elements to LH F, from caviar service to the FCL/FCT...and there are parts of LH F that people are questioning (I'm not even touching the archaic seats which have been addressed by so many others), but different people have different preferences for what they want. Ultimately, we each will make our own decisions relative to our priorities. I am traveling on vacation, and we have a long layover in MUC. I am looking to enjoy the soft product side of things.

Most people want F to be a special experience from start to finish. When an airline lets us down, we get disappointed.

seanp7

Yes, I just wish you'd take your flight and report back on the tastings, rather than these pre-flight complaints that are, honestly, completely speculative. If it's so bothersome, don't fly LH F!

As I've said in multiple posts now - enjoy your flight.