Hon run ideas for H2 2022

Old Jun 28, 2022, 10:39 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
Hon run ideas for H2 2022

Hi all,
Im kinda new to M&M but would like to know what would be the cheapest or quickest way to earn HON from scratch starting next month until end of year.

Im looking for a set of flights to make and timing is not an issue.

Thanks for the help .
Qbase is offline  
Old Jun 28, 2022, 11:40 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 7,523
LH private jet is gone, so you'll have to do it the hard way, flying F(and J) around.
Fastest would be a couple trips in full fare F with a long haul connecting to long haul.
LX is easier because all flights have F. LH only some do.

Cheapest depends on catching sales a good bunch. If there's two of you, makes it a lot easier with companion sales.

Also you don't need to make it in one year, unlike FTL/SEN, HON takes two calendar years into account.
Fabo.sk is offline  
Old Jun 28, 2022, 12:23 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: MUC
Programs: LH HON | UA 1K
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Originally Posted by Qbase
Hi all,
Im kinda new to M&M but would like to know what would be the cheapest or quickest way to earn HON from scratch starting next month until end of year.

Im looking for a set of flights to make and timing is not an issue.

Thanks for the help .
First is heavily booked right now, but First Class companion sales are probably the best value. You'll have to be really flexible with dates though.
Alisamix is offline  
Old Jun 29, 2022, 1:50 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: LH HON, AF Plat, BA Gold, SPG Plat, HHo Gold
Posts: 155
Hi,
Let's get a bit analytical on this. With the H2/2022 50% HON Circle mileage bonus, assuming existing status (and hence 25% executive bonus) this is what we get:
  • For BRU-JNB First Class Partner Special (recently at EUR 2206) and assuming you can squeeze in 2 European international J legs inbound and outbound (e.g. BRU-ZRH-FRA), you can get away with 3.3 €cpm. You would have to do 9 of those, which is a bit of a stretch for 6 months and reduced F offer and availability.
  • A theoretical XXX-EZE First Class at the same price (which we haven't seen for a long time)under the same conditions clocks in at 2.6 €cpm (and you need 7), XXX-SIN (equally theoretical now) would be 2.9 €cpm.
  • The Croatia domestic two leg in D (DBV-ZAG-SPU return). at EUR 300 comes at 2.6€cpm. On these trunk routes, you can do that without an overnight. If you are brave enough and find a ticketing TA to juggle a 3 leg fare domestic fare something like DBV/SPU-ZAG-ZAD-PUY return at EUR 415 (you have to break your journey at Zadar, some days the flight number changes on the ZAG-ZAD-PUY two stop, otherwise you have to overnight). That's the best deal at 2.5€cpm, but not really worth it, unless you want to visit these two beautiful Istrian destinations, anyway.
  • With some searching you can find 3 international leg returns in D at EUR 750-800. Those come at unit cost of 3.3-3.6 €cpm. If you can't get intra-LHG codeshare flights, you will have to do XXX-FRA-MUC-YYY or XXX-ZRH-GVA-YYY, which adds roughly 0.2 €cpm, due to the domestic leg. You need 26-30 of those trips... which is quite a stretch in your time frame, of course.
None of these costs considers overnight accommodation or positioning flights.For your reference, 4 €cpm prices the HON Circle status at EUR 24,000.
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Jan@BRU is offline  
Old Jun 29, 2022, 5:38 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
Hi,
Let's get a bit analytical on this. With the H2/2022 50% HON Circle mileage bonus, assuming existing status (and hence 25% executive bonus) this is what we get:
  • For BRU-JNB First Class Partner Special (recently at EUR 2206) and assuming you can squeeze in 2 European international J legs inbound and outbound (e.g. BRU-ZRH-FRA), you can get away with 3.3 €cpm. You would have to do 9 of those, which is a bit of a stretch for 6 months and reduced F offer and availability.
  • A theoretical XXX-EZE First Class at the same price (which we haven't seen for a long time)under the same conditions clocks in at 2.6 €cpm (and you need 7), XXX-SIN (equally theoretical now) would be 2.9 €cpm.
  • The Croatia domestic two leg in D (DBV-ZAG-SPU return). at EUR 300 comes at 2.6€cpm. On these trunk routes, you can do that without an overnight. If you are brave enough and find a ticketing TA to juggle a 3 leg fare domestic fare something like DBV/SPU-ZAG-ZAD-PUY return at EUR 415 (you have to break your journey at Zadar, some days the flight number changes on the ZAG-ZAD-PUY two stop, otherwise you have to overnight). That's the best deal at 2.5€cpm, but not really worth it, unless you want to visit these two beautiful Istrian destinations, anyway.
  • With some searching you can find 3 international leg returns in D at EUR 750-800. Those come at unit cost of 3.3-3.6 €cpm. If you can't get intra-LHG codeshare flights, you will have to do XXX-FRA-MUC-YYY or XXX-ZRH-GVA-YYY, which adds roughly 0.2 €cpm, due to the domestic leg. You need 26-30 of those trips... which is quite a stretch in your time frame, of course.
None of these costs considers overnight accommodation or positioning flights.For your reference, 4 €cpm prices the HON Circle status at EUR 24,000.
I think you went highly "theoretical" on this .
  • Assuming the OP is new to M&M like he said he was, he won't have the 25% bonus for a while, so your assumption there is probably a wee bit off.
  • I haven't seen the BRU-JNB anywhere close to the even occasionally low €3500 until 2023, so 9 of those would be pretty impossible for the quoted cpm.
  • The domestic Croatia fares in anything higher or equal D class will only give you 1500 miles, so the OP would need a tremendous number of legs flown.
  • Where do you currently find 3 international leg returns in D for €750? I feel like I'm being ripped off . Luckily, I don't need to optimize my cpm, but I would definitely occasionally be interested to get down from my typical 15 - 20 cpm.
  • I've been flying very frequently (easily re-qualified for HON in the first 5 months of this year thanks to double HON miles), and from personal experience I can tell you that the current amount of cancelled, delayed or otherwise irregular flights will never actually allow you to perform enough s-haul runs to go for HON in 6 months in the second half of 2022. It's just not feasible during this summer, especially when you don't own the HON status already. The last five days it happened to me already twice that in FRA and in MUC they couldn't pick me up any more inbound for transfer due to missing staff. Imagine someone without the HON status on short connections.
  • I would estimate that to get your HON status in the second half of 2022 alone, you'd probably easily spend at least double your quote.
Not sure if achieving HON nowadays is actually still worthwhile outside your regular flight patterns. With my usual four ZRH-SIN and two ZRH-MIA flights I took in F this year alone, plus a couple of dozens s-hauls in C, my HON re-qualification for the 2022/2023 period was achieved in 5 months. That's undoubtedly the fastest I have ever re-qualified .
moreaki is offline  
Old Jun 30, 2022, 3:13 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
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LHR-ZRH/FRA/MUC-LPA in D will give you c. 13K miles for around €670. Should be able to add a double connect in there somewhere. You'd need to do quite a few of these, but should get you a decent chunk of the way there.
Dave_C is offline  
Old Jun 30, 2022, 6:01 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: LH HON, AF Plat, BA Gold, SPG Plat, HHo Gold
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Originally Posted by moreaki
I think you went highly "theoretical" on this ..
What exactly is your point? Not everything that is mathematically correct is "theoretical" (as in not practically possible or wrong).
Let's help the OP and the community by separating romantic warstories from the facts and give this discussion a bit of structure:

A. Is it worth to go for HON Circle status ?
I think this lies in the eye of the beholder and opens up a very different discussion than what the OP has asked. I have been a HON Circle member for 16 years and have seen the status and its benefits go from "wow" to "helpful" along with LH Group's long haul premium product moving from "lagging behind competition a few years" to "entirely subpar". IMHO, HON Circle back in the days was a very smart move by LH directed at the loyal Germany-based corporate travel community in order to secure that business by making an inferior inflight product more palatable in the face of Asian and then-emerging Middle East competition. I'd be interested to have that discusison in a separate thread ... but my personal view is that if you are based outside of FRA, MUC or ZRH, it's a status not worth pursuing anymore.

B. Is it worth to do HON Circle runs in order to get or maintain the status?
The OP didn't ask us about that, but it's of course an important question. Should you spend any money for flights you actually do not want to take to get that status? And if so, how much money is it worth? Once again, that's a very personal consideration (and I'm skipping the ecological, time wasting and comfort considerations around this). I stand by my estimate that you can "buy the status" for around 25000€ (or around 4 €cpm), at H2/2022 rules (50% bonus) and if you already have (min) FTL status. This calculation, by the way also does not consider the 150k award miles that come with this spend. This almost funds (before YQ+TAX) two LH Transatlantic business class returns considering the 50% partner mileage reduction and the 14days award booking guarantee wich comes with HON Circle status makes those miles quite valuable.)
Originally Posted by moreaki
Assuming the OP is new to M&M like he said he was, he won't have the 25% bonus for a while,
Well, if you don't have status when starting, the cpm is 20% higher if you do it by short haul J and around 8% higher if you do it by long haul F only.
25000€ for 2 years of First Class Lounge access at FRA, MUC and ZRH and a call center that actually picks up the phone most of the time is a lot of money still. But hey, on the other hand it's only the price of 2 or 3 of those
Originally Posted by moreaki
usual four ZRH-SIN and two ZRH-MIA flights I took in F this year alone,
and if you haven't experienced it and you and your family like Wiener Schnitzel, Ruinart and a mediocre Business Class product a lot, why not?

For most of us, the question is a little different ... Is it worth to do one or two of this long haul runs or five to ten of the short haul runs, if your regular current travel pattern doesn't allow you to otherwise requalify in 2022? My personal answer to that is: if I was 150k off the 600k threshold, I would probably do it at 4€cpm. It won't be any cheaper in the future.

C. Is it possible to do a "from the scratch" HON Circle status run in 6 months?
The answer to this is - well: "Theoretically only" .. Thanks for pointing that out, @moreaki. As mentioned, you would have to do
  • 7 to 10 F class returns
  • 27 six-leg D class trips within Europe
  • 54 four-leg or 36 six-leg D class domestic Croatia trips
or any combination of those. All of these trips would have to be "fully optimized" in terms of number of legs allowed in the routing and in case of the two former all be international legs. Booking these with availability in the correct class online is almost impossible. You need a bricks&mortar travel agency to help.
Then there is the question of "is there enough time" to do it? The answer to that one is - no matter how you turn it, it's almost impossible to do in 6 month, if you do not wish to make it a full time occupation, which the OP did not exclude, though.
It goes without saying that I would never consider doing such a thing myself from scractch in 6 months and if one does it, it will not be a classy or even comfortable or enrichitng experience. But we are not here to judge or to brag about our own opportunities gone by (and hence theoretical at present as well).

D. What's the cheapest way to do this?
That was the OP's legitimate question. It is also the question I would ask if I needed to dedicate a few spare weekends or a week of vacation to rack-up any miles that I'm short of the 600k threshold.


The very practical answer to this is: I can confirm that the cpm numbers mentioned are correct and not theoretical.
If you haven't booked any F class "deals" for H2/2022 yet at a good price, I would advise betting on the short haul options and definitely spend some time in Croatia doing that.

In terms of
Originally Posted by moreaki
  • I haven't seen the BRU-JNB anywhere close to the even occasionally low €3500 until 2023, so 9 of those would be pretty impossible for the quoted cpm.
  • The domestic Croatia fares in anything higher or equal D class will only give you 1500 miles, so the OP would need a tremendous number of legs flown.
  • Where do you currently find 3 international leg returns in D for €750? I feel like I'm being ripped off . Luckily, I don't need to optimize my cpm, but I would definitely occasionally be interested to get down from my typical 15 - 20 cpm.
the only advise I can give is to search in a systematic and logical way, instead of using anecdotal evidence to prove those who are searching wrong. Airline pricing and yield management is a self-fulfilling negative prophecy for clients, unfortunately. If we publish the "deals" on flyertalk, they will be gone in no time -- not due to some mean airline lurker, but because availability in the fare bucket will dwindle in no time. I'm happy to share some 'best practices', though:
  • Buy on bad news - I reserved my BRU-JNB deal for 1980 EUR in F for December in back in January this year, just after a schedule change in the previously bought DUB-JNB 2600 EUR deal allowed me to cancel for free. The 2206 EUR F partner deal on LH/LX was published about a month ago on all portals/newsletters specializing in those deals. You have to act fast in this case. Given the very limited capacity of LH First Class in the skies at present, I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for many new F deals coming online soon. But I think we'll some for November in markets on which LX operates and where Emirates and the likes make a comeback push ... watch Italy.
  • Do your math - A six leg European business class trip on LH group has fixed (and booking-class independent) cost of 292EUR (YQ) + 100-145EUR (TAX). All things being optimal, these yield 22500, 14063 and 8438 HONmi in D, Z, P respectively. That means that the €cpm of YQ+TAX is 1.9 (D), 3.1 (Z), 5.1 (P) -- NB that's without considering the airline fare!!! So in terms of status/HON circle mile optimization ... forget Z and P fares and look for "reasonably" priced D fares.
  • Be geo-flexible and forget about comfort on the run - So where to find those 750€-800€ six leg trips? From the above, we know that this leaves us with D fares priced at a maximum of 800-292-145=363 EUR. They are rare, but they exist. Look for origins in countries, where LH Group doesn't have any hubs, so forget about Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium. Good choices are places with a legacy competitor (including Star alliance) having their home base and/or a vibrant LCC environment. Amsterdam, Scandinavia and Italy are often good origins, partilulary on typical LCC destinations. The UK was the same, but recently strengthened a bit too much. Spain is another contender, but positioning is of course quite difficult from a Central European perspective and the flights are long, which makes it impossible to do 4 legs in a day. I havent checked on Budapest recently, but that was often a good origin in the past, too.
I hope some of that is helpful for the community.

Last edited by Jan@BRU; Jun 30, 2022 at 6:12 am
Jan@BRU is offline  
Old Jun 30, 2022, 4:29 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ZRH/VLC/MIA/SFO/SIN
Programs: LX HON
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
What exactly is your point? Not everything that is mathematically correct is "theoretical" (as in not practically possible or wrong).
I wasn't trying to make a point at any moment, merely an attempt at some, albeit probably misplaced, humor. You didn't interpret it this way and went on to dedicate your time to write a wonderful piece of overview for the community. Thank you for your insightful and impressive write-up. At the same time, I reckon you felt the urge to answer my rhetorical questions with the notion of more seriousness. Not being very active on this forum, the places where humor is appropriate likely escapes me. In indulge you on your quest to find a workable answer to the most likely "theoretical" question of the OP, along the guidelines you so finely established by quoting my reply.

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
Let's help the OP and the community by separating romantic warstories from the facts and give this discussion a bit of structure:
Sure, and let's try to minimize the theoretical aspects of this as well, to make it useful to the OP's question.

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
A. Is it worth to go for HON Circle status ?
I think this lies in the eye of the beholder and opens up a very different discussion than what the OP has asked. I have been a HON Circle member for 16 years and have seen the status and its benefits go from "wow" to "helpful" along with LH Group's long haul premium product moving from "lagging behind competition a few years" to "entirely subpar". IMHO, HON Circle back in the days was a very smart move by LH directed at the loyal Germany-based corporate travel community in order to secure that business by making an inferior inflight product more palatable in the face of Asian and then-emerging Middle East competition. I'd be interested to have that discusison in a separate thread ... but my personal view is that if you are based outside of FRA, MUC or ZRH, it's a status not worth pursuing anymore.
Not going to go into this, as it's an opinion, and I suppose all of us have years-long experiences, which as you suggest is definitely more suited in a separate thread.

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
B. Is it worth to do HON Circle runs in order to get or maintain the status?
The OP didn't ask us about that, but it's of course an important question. Should you spend any money for flights you actually do not want to take to get that status? And if so, how much money is it worth? Once again, that's a very personal consideration (and I'm skipping the ecological, time wasting and comfort considerations around this). I stand by my estimate that you can "buy the status" for around 25000 (or around 4 cpm), at H2/2022 rules (50% bonus) and if you already have (min) FTL status. This calculation, by the way also does not consider the 150k award miles that come with this spend. This almost funds (before YQ+TAX) two LH Transatlantic business class returns considering the 50% partner mileage reduction and the 14days award booking guarantee wich comes with HON Circle status makes those miles quite valuable.)
Well, if you don't have status when starting, the cpm is 20% higher if you do it by short haul J and around 8% higher if you do it by long haul F only.
25000 for 2 years of First Class Lounge access at FRA, MUC and ZRH and a call center that actually picks up the phone most of the time is a lot of money still. But hey, on the other hand it's only the price of 2 or 3 of those
I stand my notion that this is "theoretical" (certainly analytical), given the current climate of booking availability of the fares you quoted, the increasing amount of IRROPs, and the resulting time constraints. Your initially quoted 24'000 (now 25'000) spread over any combination of your proposal in

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
C. Is it possible to do a "from the scratch" HON Circle status run in 6 months?
The answer to this is - well: "Theoretically only" .. Thanks for pointing that out, @moreaki. As mentioned, you would have to do
  • 7 to 10 F class returns
  • 27 six-leg D class trips within Europe
  • 54 four-leg or 36 six-leg D class domestic Croatia trips
would for example translate in F fares between 2'400 and 3'430 on any route combination offering you between 60'000 and 85'000 miles (including HON Exec Bonus and the current mileage multiplier: 1.5 starting from tomorrow) on your 10 to 7 F class returns. I would gladly pay people 10% of the fare difference between what I normally pay and what they could optimize. PM me if you're interested.

The best fare I currently find -- so to not make it "theoretical" -- is the 3'500 F fare LJU-ZRH-JNB, which in 2022 can currently still be booked
  • 2 times in October, same day turnaround
  • 3 times in September, same day turnaround
  • 2 times in August, same day turnaround
I doubt with this you get the 600'000 miles needed in H2/22, and, seen from my cockpit, not for 24k or 25k. Hence, my notion of "theoretical".

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
or any combination of those. All of these trips would have to be "fully optimized" in terms of number of legs allowed in the routing and in case of the two former all be international legs. Booking these with availability in the correct class online is almost impossible. You need a bricks&mortar travel agency to help.
Hence, my notion of "theoretical", besides attempting an ill-conceived funny pun in my first reply.

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
Then there is the question of "is there enough time" to do it? The answer to that one is - no matter how you turn it, it's almost impossible to do in 6 month, if you do not wish to make it a full time occupation, which the OP did not exclude, though.
The OP was looking for a "set of flights to make". It's feasible time-wise, just not for your quoted 24k or 25k in my view.

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
It goes without saying that I would never consider doing such a thing myself from scractch in 6 months and if one does it, it will not be a classy or even comfortable or enrichitng experience. But we are not here to judge or to brag about our own opportunities gone by (and hence theoretical at present as well).
Not going to go into this, as it's an opinion, which I understood is not helping to answer the OP's inquiry much.

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
D. What's the cheapest way to do this?
That was the OP's legitimate question. It is also the question I would ask if I needed to dedicate a few spare weekends or a week of vacation to rack-up any miles that I'm short of the 600k threshold.

The very practical answer to this is: I can confirm that the cpm numbers mentioned are correct and not theoretical.
If you haven't booked any F class "deals" for H2/2022 yet at a good price, I would advise betting on the short haul options and definitely spend some time in Croatia doing that.
The OP actually asked for "set of flights to make ... cheapest or quickest". It's highly unlikely that he would be asking this question, if it were obvious to find those flights. It's doable in F & a couple of C flights in H2/22 currently (effortless to find for everyone on Google Flights according to my listing above). Unless you show clearly how he would perform this feat realistically in Croatia, I think you'd have to admit it's a rather "theoretical" exercise.

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
the only advise I can give is to search in a systematic and logical way, instead of using anecdotal evidence to prove those who are searching wrong.
Exactly. Otherwise, it's "theoretical" at best .

Originally Posted by Jan@BRU
Airline pricing and yield management is a self-fulfilling negative prophecy for clients, unfortunately. If we publish the "deals" on flyertalk, they will be gone in no time -- not due to some mean airline lurker, but because availability in the fare bucket will dwindle in no time. I'm happy to share some 'best practices', though:
  • Buy on bad news - I reserved my BRU-JNB deal for 1980 EUR in F for December in back in January this year, just after a schedule change in the previously bought DUB-JNB 2600 EUR deal allowed me to cancel for free. The 2206 EUR F partner deal on LH/LX was published about a month ago on all portals/newsletters specializing in those deals. You have to act fast in this case. Given the very limited capacity of LH First Class in the skies at present, I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for many new F deals coming online soon. But I think we'll some for November in markets on which LX operates and where Emirates and the likes make a comeback push ... watch Italy.
  • Do your math - A six leg European business class trip on LH group has fixed (and booking-class independent) cost of 292EUR (YQ) + 100-145EUR (TAX). All things being optimal, these yield 22500, 14063 and 8438 HONmi in D, Z, P respectively. That means that the cpm of YQ+TAX is 1.9 (D), 3.1 (Z), 5.1 (P) -- NB that's without considering the airline fare!!! So in terms of status/HON circle mile optimization ... forget Z and P fares and look for "reasonably" priced D fares.
  • Be geo-flexible and forget about comfort on the run - So where to find those 750-800 six leg trips? From the above, we know that this leaves us with D fares priced at a maximum of 800-292-145=363 EUR. They are rare, but they exist. Look for origins in countries, where LH Group doesn't have any hubs, so forget about Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium. Good choices are places with a legacy competitor (including Star alliance) having their home base and/or a vibrant LCC environment. Amsterdam, Scandinavia and Italy are often good origins, partilulary on typical LCC destinations. The UK was the same, but recently strengthened a bit too much. Spain is another contender, but positioning is of course quite difficult from a Central European perspective and the flights are long, which makes it impossible to do 4 legs in a day. I havent checked on Budapest recently, but that was often a good origin in the past, too.
I hope some of that is helpful for the community.
Point 1 is likely not an option anymore for the OP.

Point 2 requires the OP to perform 26 (actually rather 28 if starting from zero miles) D class 6 legs turnarounds in Europe in 6 months (one a week), which is feasible, if you really find those fares you quoted on a weekly basis; but quite importantly, with the current frequent IRROPs, I don't believe it's an option worthwhile pursuing, only combined with the F fares I posted. Since I'm not versed in MR aspects, seeing how you calculate your cpm using YQ and Tax only, I now start to understand how you claim that the total cost might be 24k. I always assumed total expenditure .

Point 3 to me is the same as point 2, only more limited in that the OP would need even more runs. Also, probably not feasible. We have to take your word on it.

Therefore, in my eyes, to make this more practical (which is what I understood you wanted this thread to become), this is a concrete example of how the OP can get his HON in H2/22 starting tomorrow:
  • LJU-ZRH-JNB: 7 same day turnarounds in F for currently 3500 each in August, September and October. I don't know on top of my head how many miles that would give, but probably close to 400'000 Miles.
  • NCE-FRA-VIE-BER-ZRH-NCE: 11 same day turnarounds in D for currently 730 in July, August, September, Oktober, November and December. This should give you the remaining 200'000+ Miles.
You can easily find those on Google Flights.

Hope this helps the OP.
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moreaki is offline  
Old Jun 30, 2022, 6:55 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 7,523
Couple notes. Even though I think being HON would be a fun thing to experience, these prices are out of my budget so I don't have a horse in this race.

Re. Point 2 - IRROPs are your friends in these circumstances, unless they impact your last leg. Hightail it home and claim original routing credit. Time saved and maybe some money from compensation if you are lucky.

Re. Point 3 - I have to wonder if there is not an arbitrary route that could be leveraged which does not start and end in Europe, but connects two intercontinental F destinations, maybe even something as close as DXB.
Potentially something like JNB-ZRH-SFO, I see prices for under 7000 EUR but I am having issues finding a right return (maybe a multicity or something)

Also, positioning would have to be considered. OP gave us no indication as to where they reside, so it's difficult.
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Fabo.sk is offline  
Old Jul 1, 2022, 6:29 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: LH HON, AF Plat, BA Gold, SPG Plat, HHo Gold
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by moreaki
. Since I'm not versed in MR aspects, seeing how you calculate your cpm using YQ and Tax only, I now start to understand how you claim that the total cost might be 24k. I always assumed total expenditure ..
Your initial assumption was correct, but you didn't believe the result.

The 4 cpm benchmark is for total tix price, I. E. fare+YQ+tax. The 1.9 cpm estimate is for YQ+tax only on a 6 leg international European itinerary in D bucket, delivering 22500 HON Circle miles.
If you want to run at 3.5 cpm, you have to look for 360 EUR D fares max. (3.5-1.9)"22500. Expertflyer.com is your friend for this as is itasoftware with a bit of patience or webcrawling.


Last time I checked, you couldn't specify booking classes on Google flights front-end (which is actually built on itasoftware data now). So you cant be sure about the booking class, unless you know the resulting total price beforehand or go to the end of the booking process. If that had, changed and you can now search by fare bucket on Google, that would be a major leap forward.

Originally Posted by moreaki
Unless you show clearly how he would perform this feat realistically in Croatia, I think you'd have to admit it's a rather "theoretical" exercise.
You might want to reconsider your tone just a little bit, as I'm not one of your junior associates nor in a competition with somebody who just discovered Google Flights to book his
Originally Posted by moreaki
typical 15 - 20 cpm.
itineraries.

The Croatian Domestic routings at 2.6 cpm have been clearly stated in my original post for those who care to read without bias. They are open and available almost every day this year, so literally hundreds of possible options. As with every bucket specific routings (e.g. D class only), it can be a challenge to use online booking channels to get those ticketed. Offline agencies often add an additional cost. So a good option is the usually very friendly and helpful OU call center, who mostly help you free of charge to upgrade direct online bookings, that accidentally ended up in Z...

​​

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Last edited by Jan@BRU; Jul 2, 2022 at 8:58 am
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Old Jul 1, 2022, 7:03 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: LH HON, AF Plat, BA Gold, SPG Plat, HHo Gold
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by Fabo.sk

Re. Point 2 - IRROPs are your friends in these circumstances, unless they impact your last leg. Hightail it home and claim original routing credit. Time saved and maybe some money from compensation if you are lucky.
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Very good point. Although, you can only claim the full mileage, if you travel on another flight to your destination (ie the fare break), not when you simply turn around back home after your first missed connection, say after your first leg. Anyone has some concrete experience with that?
Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
Re. Point 3 - I have to wonder if there is not an arbitrary route that could be leveraged which does not start and end in Europe, but connects two intercontinental F destinations, maybe even something as close as DXB.
Potentially something like JNB-ZRH-SFO, I see prices for under 7000 EUR but I am having issues finding a right return (maybe a multicity or something)

Also, positioning would have to be considered. OP gave us no indication as to where they reside, so it's difficult.
Technically that's of course possible and has the advantage of being less time consuming as a run. For the routing you mentioned, you are looking at roughly 110000 miles with the previous assumptions. That's not extra cheap at 7000EUR. You would have to put in some additional intra EU legs between LH hubs. But as you mention, it's already difficult to find. Single A seat to anywhere these days, finding 2 or even 4 subsequent ones will be pure luck...
Jan@BRU is offline  
Old Jul 1, 2022, 7:09 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bergen - Norway
Programs: EBD , FBG
Posts: 552
From what Im reading here, it looks like a significant amount of money and an insane amount of flying. If I were to do any of those options, it would probably keep me away from any airport for the next two years, while the HON membership expired. And Id be in AA.
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Old Jul 2, 2022, 4:41 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: LH HON, AF Plat, BA Gold, SPG Plat, HHo Gold
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by Kleffen
From what Im reading here, it looks like a significant amount of money and an insane amount of flying. If I were to do any of those options, it would probably keep me away from any airport for the next two years, while the HON membership expired. And Id be in AA.
Yes indeed,
'from scratch' in 6 month is not really realistic.
As I tried to suggest, use one or two of the run possibilities, if you are 100k short, in that case you can do it for a relatively decent amount of money.
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Old Jul 2, 2022, 5:58 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: Miles & More, BA Executive Club
Posts: 750
Originally Posted by Kleffen
From what Im reading here, it looks like a significant amount of money and an insane amount of flying. If I were to do any of those options, it would probably keep me away from any airport for the next two years, while the HON membership expired. And Id be in AA.
It might be worthwhile trying to get FTL for now as it only involves 30 flight segments (7 bookings with 4 flights in and one there and back) and then try for HON over 2023.

From what I can tell you already get some great benefits, like business class check in, lounge access and priority lanes.
iLied is offline  
Old Jul 2, 2022, 11:47 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 7,523
Originally Posted by iLied
It might be worthwhile trying to get FTL for now as it only involves 30 flight segments (7 bookings with 4 flights in and one there and back) and then try for HON over 2023.

From what I can tell you already get some great benefits, like business class check in, lounge access and priority lanes.
If you are going for HON eventually, you might want to get FTL by miles rather than by segments. One F return will get you there. remember HON is over two years, so 2022+2023 or 2023+2024 are both plausible options, but 2022+2023 is still ~16 months if we plan 2m advance purchase. That's much more feasible to make it, unlike trying to cram the whole HON into just the rest of 2022.
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