Shocking Anti Semitic incident
Jun 13, 2022, 6:38 am
#481
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FRA, DRS
Programs: M&M SEN , Hilton Diamond, NH Platinum
Posts: 155
As ridiculous as it sounds, but it is the rule/law and obviously everybody needs to comply with that.
Jun 13, 2022, 8:02 am
#482
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: CH
Programs: LX SEN
Posts: 899
In my family, coming from an ethnic group that has been almost destructed, we tend to bet on camouflage to make us invisible and less susceptible of pogroms/discrimination. I would not solely rely on the rule of law. This case proves that resurgences occur even within exemplary countries and organizations.
Jun 13, 2022, 9:04 am
#483
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
Don't you think that you are a tad dramatic here? And also, the rule breakers made no efforts of camouflaging and being invisible - I don't recognize your sentiment in this event.
Jun 13, 2022, 9:31 am
#484
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: All of them...
Posts: 382
The EU has a law about flight compensation, yet LH tries every time an excuse not to pay
But I guess they like to follow the laws & rules very carefully
Jun 13, 2022, 5:31 pm
#485
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Its been 5 weeks and still no one has posted anywhere any "Proof" that any of this was due to someone/s being anti-semitic. Its very easy to cast a stone its something else to come up with proof.
That said I just got back from a 2 week Intl trip. I transited via ZRH both ways and each time I saw police patrols of 2 people in the terms, 1 of them had a sub-machine gun with their finger < 1 sec from being on the trigger, no different then the pics of the police in FRA. Like I said up thread its how its done in Europe, dont like it dont fly there, period, dont come up with nonsense statements thats its due to anti-semitism
On my Outbound connection there were 2 teams of 2 by my gate, I couldnt hold back and I screamed at them how being there with the machine guns reminded me of my family who were turned back at the Swiss border during WWII @ gun point and forced back to Germany and the death camps, And how their forbearers would be proud of them for being there once again with guns by Jews. They tried explaining that since it was a flight to TLV they were there to protect the passengers , I wouldnt have any of that nonsense and said you are here to coral The Jews once again. yes I flew to TLV and NO no such conversation took place, since I knew full well these 2 teams were there to make sure those flying to TLV wouldnt be harmed in any way , shape manner or form. No different then those if FRA whose job it was to make sure nothing happened to the LH employees or those allowed to board the BUD flight
FWIW there was also of 2 1 with a machine gun guarding the gate area upon arrival into ZRH yesterday and leaving this morn (over nighted) I saw a couiple teams walking around on patrol with 1 with a machine gun and her finger < 1 sec from being on the trigger.
My opin is most will say they wont ever fly LH ever again, that is unless LH has a cheap sale or wants less miles for an award tkt, and personally feel many are looking for a large ca$hout
That said I just got back from a 2 week Intl trip. I transited via ZRH both ways and each time I saw police patrols of 2 people in the terms, 1 of them had a sub-machine gun with their finger < 1 sec from being on the trigger, no different then the pics of the police in FRA. Like I said up thread its how its done in Europe, dont like it dont fly there, period, dont come up with nonsense statements thats its due to anti-semitism
On my Outbound connection there were 2 teams of 2 by my gate, I couldnt hold back and I screamed at them how being there with the machine guns reminded me of my family who were turned back at the Swiss border during WWII @ gun point and forced back to Germany and the death camps, And how their forbearers would be proud of them for being there once again with guns by Jews. They tried explaining that since it was a flight to TLV they were there to protect the passengers , I wouldnt have any of that nonsense and said you are here to coral The Jews once again. yes I flew to TLV and NO no such conversation took place, since I knew full well these 2 teams were there to make sure those flying to TLV wouldnt be harmed in any way , shape manner or form. No different then those if FRA whose job it was to make sure nothing happened to the LH employees or those allowed to board the BUD flight
FWIW there was also of 2 1 with a machine gun guarding the gate area upon arrival into ZRH yesterday and leaving this morn (over nighted) I saw a couiple teams walking around on patrol with 1 with a machine gun and her finger < 1 sec from being on the trigger.
My opin is most will say they wont ever fly LH ever again, that is unless LH has a cheap sale or wants less miles for an award tkt, and personally feel many are looking for a large ca$hout
Jun 13, 2022, 6:10 pm
#487
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,631
I found this response to the DOT from Lufthansa, which was posted on DansDeals, quite revealing:
***
As you may be aware, Lufthansa has offered to refund the full amount you paid for your itinerary from New York through Budapest and all reasonable incidental travel expenses that you incurred as a result of not traveling on Lufthansa flight LH 1334 from Frankfurt to Budapest as originally scheduled. This includes the cost of alternative transportation to Budapest and the cost of lodging and meals. Additionally, Lufthansa agreed to pay compensation for denied boarding in accordance with EU Regulations 261/2004. This reimbursement proposal was made in good faith and did not require you to waive any other legal rights that you may have resulting from this experience. We were advised through your counsel that our proposal was reviewed and rejected.
There have been numerous similar complaints filed by your fellow passengers, which we acknowledge, and similar responses shall be submitted to them. We note that the events you are referring to in your statement to the DOT occurred outside the U.S. but we, nevertheless desire to respond to you in good faith.
We again offer you and the other individuals impacted our apologies for what transpired on May 4. We hope you afford us the opportunity to regain your trust.
Sincerely,
Alison Russo
Customer Relations, North America
As you may be aware, Lufthansa has offered to refund the full amount you paid for your itinerary from New York through Budapest and all reasonable incidental travel expenses that you incurred as a result of not traveling on Lufthansa flight LH 1334 from Frankfurt to Budapest as originally scheduled. This includes the cost of alternative transportation to Budapest and the cost of lodging and meals. Additionally, Lufthansa agreed to pay compensation for denied boarding in accordance with EU Regulations 261/2004. This reimbursement proposal was made in good faith and did not require you to waive any other legal rights that you may have resulting from this experience. We were advised through your counsel that our proposal was reviewed and rejected.
There have been numerous similar complaints filed by your fellow passengers, which we acknowledge, and similar responses shall be submitted to them. We note that the events you are referring to in your statement to the DOT occurred outside the U.S. but we, nevertheless desire to respond to you in good faith.
We again offer you and the other individuals impacted our apologies for what transpired on May 4. We hope you afford us the opportunity to regain your trust.
Sincerely,
Alison Russo
Customer Relations, North America
Jun 13, 2022, 6:49 pm
#488
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Fortunately, the majority of all those victims survived the horrors of being rebooked and will be able to henceforward serve as living witnesses to the devastation inflicted upon their kin by a one-day delay.
Don't you think that you are a tad dramatic here? And also, the rule breakers made no efforts of camouflaging and being invisible - I don't recognize your sentiment in this event.
Don't you think that you are a tad dramatic here? And also, the rule breakers made no efforts of camouflaging and being invisible - I don't recognize your sentiment in this event.
Jun 13, 2022, 7:04 pm
#489
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
No argument with your assessment of the situation.
I found this response to the DOT from Lufthansa, which was posted on......, quite revealing:
I found this response to the DOT from Lufthansa, which was posted on......, quite revealing:
My grip is that w/o any proof stop being Al Sharptons and claim every time its Anti-semitism unless you have proof that that is true. Heres another case from last week not an airline, https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news...auschwitz.html Now if they saw an employee run and lock the gate and allow everyone but those girls thru Id agree, but AS is being thrown out since as with LH all Germans are anti-semitic and so are all Poles now.
Again it may be AS but with Buffalo until they looked at the shooters social media posts they didnt say it was Racism
But unfortunately many people on the site you mentioned when a bag is Missing (didnt arrive) think they can go on a spending spree and buy things they never would have and if the bag ends up as never being found , up go the posts eg How can I max out the amount XX will pay me for my lost bag , does anyone know someone who will back date receipts and for items I didnt buy etc etc. The point is not to be made whole but to profit from it. So it doesnt surprise me if most folks will pull a Dao, who was on the phone with his lawyer when the police came to take him off and did what he could so as to max out his profits IMO.
Jun 14, 2022, 12:12 am
#490
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FRA, DRS
Programs: M&M SEN , Hilton Diamond, NH Platinum
Posts: 155
The US DOT has a rule that if a flight gets cancelled the airline needs to refund the ticket within 7 days, but someone LH felt that can ignore the law and give everyone a run around
The EU has a law about flight compensation, yet LH tries every time an excuse not to pay
But I guess they like to follow the laws & rules very carefully
The EU has a law about flight compensation, yet LH tries every time an excuse not to pay
But I guess they like to follow the laws & rules very carefully
Jun 14, 2022, 6:25 am
#491
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
But I do agree with your overall sentiment.
Jun 17, 2022, 4:59 pm
#492
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
And I'd rant about Lufthansa and their incapable ground agents here.
What I would not do is, call the Italian staff fascisti and claim that the Italians have learned nothing from history and still treat the Swiss as they (and the French) did in 1515 at Marignano. And I'd not call a random Carabineri a Moschettieri del Duce.
Subtly different but different.
Sep 20, 2022, 3:22 am
#493
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,162
LH is the first airline to sign up to the IHRA
The Lufthansa Group adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism, including its examples, joining other German companies and the Federal German government, in taking a leadership role in speaking out against antisemitism, discrimination as well all manifestations of racism. The Lufthansa Group is the first airline group globally to adopt the definition.
“I speak with conviction when I say: there is no room for antisemitism, discrimination and racism of any kind in society, nor in the Lufthansa Group,” Lufthansa Group Executive Board Member Christina Foerster, stated at a ceremony in Washington D.C. commemorating the adoption of the definition, which is guiding countries and corporations globally.
With the adoption of the IHRA definition, the Lufthansa Group reinforces the Group’s global engagement against all forms of racist, xenophobic and antisemitic behavior.
“Fundamental to standing against antisemitism is understanding what it is and how it manifests, both in overt forms and through unconscious bias. The IHRA definition recognizes all of this – that is its distinct strength,” noted Foerster.
The meaningful event brought together government officials from the U.S., Germany, and Israel as well as leaders from the American Jewish community. Foerster further announced the collaboration between the Lufthansa Group and the American Jewish Committee to develop further corporate sensitivity trainings.
Speaking at the ceremony were Ambassador Dr. Deborah Lipstadt, United States Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism and Dr. Felix Klein, Federal Government Commissioner for Jewish Life in Germany and the Fight against antisemitism, two of the leading authorities on combating
antisemitism, globally. Also joining were Dr. Emily Haber, German Ambassador to the U.S. and Michael Herzog, Israeli Ambassador to the U.S.
IHRA definition of antisemitism: “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish communityinstitutions and religious facilities. In addition, the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity, may also be the target of such attacks.”
Lufthansa Group adopts IHRA antisemitism definition
First airline globally to endorse definition as part of global engagement gainst racismThe Lufthansa Group adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism, including its examples, joining other German companies and the Federal German government, in taking a leadership role in speaking out against antisemitism, discrimination as well all manifestations of racism. The Lufthansa Group is the first airline group globally to adopt the definition.
“I speak with conviction when I say: there is no room for antisemitism, discrimination and racism of any kind in society, nor in the Lufthansa Group,” Lufthansa Group Executive Board Member Christina Foerster, stated at a ceremony in Washington D.C. commemorating the adoption of the definition, which is guiding countries and corporations globally.
With the adoption of the IHRA definition, the Lufthansa Group reinforces the Group’s global engagement against all forms of racist, xenophobic and antisemitic behavior.
“Fundamental to standing against antisemitism is understanding what it is and how it manifests, both in overt forms and through unconscious bias. The IHRA definition recognizes all of this – that is its distinct strength,” noted Foerster.
The meaningful event brought together government officials from the U.S., Germany, and Israel as well as leaders from the American Jewish community. Foerster further announced the collaboration between the Lufthansa Group and the American Jewish Committee to develop further corporate sensitivity trainings.
Speaking at the ceremony were Ambassador Dr. Deborah Lipstadt, United States Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism and Dr. Felix Klein, Federal Government Commissioner for Jewish Life in Germany and the Fight against antisemitism, two of the leading authorities on combating
antisemitism, globally. Also joining were Dr. Emily Haber, German Ambassador to the U.S. and Michael Herzog, Israeli Ambassador to the U.S.
IHRA definition of antisemitism: “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish communityinstitutions and religious facilities. In addition, the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity, may also be the target of such attacks.”
Sep 20, 2022, 3:36 am
#494
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 853
Got it.
One must think twice before speaking against Jewish owned property (businesses), institutions (the Israeli Defense Forces, the ADL), or the state of Israel lest they be labeled as "antisemites".
I wonder if an objective viewer might consider such immunization from criticism a form of supremacy. Is posing that question a form of antisemitism?
One must think twice before speaking against Jewish owned property (businesses), institutions (the Israeli Defense Forces, the ADL), or the state of Israel lest they be labeled as "antisemites".
I wonder if an objective viewer might consider such immunization from criticism a form of supremacy. Is posing that question a form of antisemitism?
Sep 20, 2022, 12:32 pm
#495
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
"..endorse definition as part of global engagement gainst racism"
So if you gain (or gainst) something from it, it's ok
?
Sounds a bit like our banking system in the late days of The Great Patriotic War.
"Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property"
So criticizing anyone or their stuff is now antisemitic
?
That's tough for someone who complains all the time, such as I.
So if you gain (or gainst) something from it, it's ok
?Sounds a bit like our banking system in the late days of The Great Patriotic War.
"Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property"
So criticizing anyone or their stuff is now antisemitic
?That's tough for someone who complains all the time, such as I.