Shocking Anti Semitic incident

Old Jun 13, 22, 7:38 am
  #481  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FRA, DRS
Programs: M&M SEN , Hilton Diamond, NH Platinum
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by craz View Post
Now I dont get why LH insists on masks in flight if they dont have to wear them in the Terms, could be its not up to them and they have a ridiculous CDC like we do, but as long as its the policy then it should be held to
It is not the choice of LH. It is German goverment rules, that in public transportation (airplane, train, buses, etc) it is mandatory to wear a face masks.
As ridiculous as it sounds, but it is the rule/law and obviously everybody needs to comply with that.
catawiki1 likes this.
redwings is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 9:02 am
  #482  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: CH
Programs: LX SEN
Posts: 868
In my family, coming from an ethnic group that has been almost destructed, we tend to bet on camouflage to make us invisible and less susceptible of pogroms/discrimination. I would not solely rely on the rule of law. This case proves that resurgences occur even within exemplary countries and organizations.
hugolover likes this.
Nic33 is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 10:04 am
  #483  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP
Posts: 38,132
Originally Posted by Nic33 View Post
.. This case proves that resurgences occur even within exemplary countries and organizations.
Fortunately, the majority of all those victims survived the horrors of being rebooked and will be able to henceforward serve as living witnesses to the devastation inflicted upon their kin by a one-day delay.

Don't you think that you are a tad dramatic here? And also, the rule breakers made no efforts of camouflaging and being invisible - I don't recognize your sentiment in this event.
weero is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 10:31 am
  #484  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: All of them...
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by redwings View Post
It is not the choice of LH. It is German goverment rules, that in public transportation (airplane, train, buses, etc) it is mandatory to wear a face masks.
As ridiculous as it sounds, but it is the rule/law and obviously everybody needs to comply with that.
The US DOT has a rule that if a flight gets cancelled the airline needs to refund the ticket within 7 days, but someone LH felt that can ignore the law and give everyone a run around

The EU has a law about flight compensation, yet LH tries every time an excuse not to pay

But I guess they like to follow the laws & rules very carefully
Dave_C and gojko88 like this.
chff is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 6:31 pm
  #485  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Its been 5 weeks and still no one has posted anywhere any "Proof" that any of this was due to someone/s being anti-semitic. Its very easy to cast a stone its something else to come up with proof.

That said I just got back from a 2 week Intl trip. I transited via ZRH both ways and each time I saw police patrols of 2 people in the terms, 1 of them had a sub-machine gun with their finger < 1 sec from being on the trigger, no different then the pics of the police in FRA. Like I said up thread its how its done in Europe, dont like it dont fly there, period, dont come up with nonsense statements thats its due to anti-semitism

On my Outbound connection there were 2 teams of 2 by my gate, I couldnt hold back and I screamed at them how being there with the machine guns reminded me of my family who were turned back at the Swiss border during WWII @ gun point and forced back to Germany and the death camps, And how their forbearers would be proud of them for being there once again with guns by Jews. They tried explaining that since it was a flight to TLV they were there to protect the passengers , I wouldnt have any of that nonsense and said you are here to coral The Jews once again. yes I flew to TLV and NO no such conversation took place, since I knew full well these 2 teams were there to make sure those flying to TLV wouldnt be harmed in any way , shape manner or form. No different then those if FRA whose job it was to make sure nothing happened to the LH employees or those allowed to board the BUD flight

FWIW there was also of 2 1 with a machine gun guarding the gate area upon arrival into ZRH yesterday and leaving this morn (over nighted) I saw a couiple teams walking around on patrol with 1 with a machine gun and her finger < 1 sec from being on the trigger.

My opin is most will say they wont ever fly LH ever again, that is unless LH has a cheap sale or wants less miles for an award tkt, and personally feel many are looking for a large ca$hout
pdeut and Ghoulish like this.
craz is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 7:04 pm
  #486  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 58
Very interesting event. I wonder what the sentiment would have been if the people in question had been Muslim?
catawiki1 is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 7:10 pm
  #487  
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: VNY | BUR | LAX
Programs: AAdvantage | MileagePlus
Posts: 17,613
Originally Posted by craz View Post
My opin is most will say they wont ever fly LH ever again, that is unless LH has a cheap sale or wants less miles for an award tkt, and personally feel many are looking for a large ca$hout
No argument with your assessment of the situation.

I found this response to the DOT from Lufthansa, which was posted on DansDeals, quite revealing:
***
As you may be aware, Lufthansa has offered to refund the full amount you paid for your itinerary from New York through Budapest and all reasonable incidental travel expenses that you incurred as a result of not traveling on Lufthansa flight LH 1334 from Frankfurt to Budapest as originally scheduled. This includes the cost of alternative transportation to Budapest and the cost of lodging and meals. Additionally, Lufthansa agreed to pay compensation for denied boarding in accordance with EU Regulations 261/2004. This reimbursement proposal was made in good faith and did not require you to waive any other legal rights that you may have resulting from this experience. We were advised through your counsel that our proposal was reviewed and rejected.

There have been numerous similar complaints filed by your fellow passengers, which we acknowledge, and similar responses shall be submitted to them. We note that the events you are referring to in your statement to the DOT occurred outside the U.S. but we, nevertheless desire to respond to you in good faith.

We again offer you and the other individuals impacted our apologies for what transpired on May 4. We hope you afford us the opportunity to regain your trust.

Sincerely,

Alison Russo

Customer Relations, North America
TWA884 is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 7:49 pm
  #488  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Originally Posted by weero View Post
Fortunately, the majority of all those victims survived the horrors of being rebooked and will be able to henceforward serve as living witnesses to the devastation inflicted upon their kin by a one-day delay.

Don't you think that you are a tad dramatic here? And also, the rule breakers made no efforts of camouflaging and being invisible - I don't recognize your sentiment in this event.
Let me try putting it this way, you have a trip where you are flying to Rome to arrive on 12/24, you are told at your connecting gate you are banned from flying for 24 hrs and can continue the next day , by the time you get to Rome the reason for you going will be MOOT. These folks werent on a scenic tour and were trying to arrive to their final destination before sundown of that day, arriving the next day would be no different then you arriving on 12/26 into Rome
craz is offline  
Old Jun 13, 22, 8:04 pm
  #489  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Originally Posted by TWA884 View Post
No argument with your assessment of the situation.

I found this response to the DOT from Lufthansa, which was posted on......, quite revealing:
Thats the min they should get as I said from the get go, and unfortunately the culprits who didnt listen to the crew will also get that

My grip is that w/o any proof stop being Al Sharptons and claim every time its Anti-semitism unless you have proof that that is true. Heres another case from last week not an airline, https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news...auschwitz.html Now if they saw an employee run and lock the gate and allow everyone but those girls thru Id agree, but AS is being thrown out since as with LH all Germans are anti-semitic and so are all Poles now.

Again it may be AS but with Buffalo until they looked at the shooters social media posts they didnt say it was Racism

But unfortunately many people on the site you mentioned when a bag is Missing (didnt arrive) think they can go on a spending spree and buy things they never would have and if the bag ends up as never being found , up go the posts eg How can I max out the amount XX will pay me for my lost bag , does anyone know someone who will back date receipts and for items I didnt buy etc etc. The point is not to be made whole but to profit from it. So it doesnt surprise me if most folks will pull a Dao, who was on the phone with his lawyer when the police came to take him off and did what he could so as to max out his profits IMO.
craz is offline  
Old Jun 14, 22, 1:12 am
  #490  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FRA, DRS
Programs: M&M SEN , Hilton Diamond, NH Platinum
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by chff View Post
The US DOT has a rule that if a flight gets cancelled the airline needs to refund the ticket within 7 days, but someone LH felt that can ignore the law and give everyone a run around

The EU has a law about flight compensation, yet LH tries every time an excuse not to pay

But I guess they like to follow the laws & rules very carefully
Yeap, Germans like to follow the rules/law carefully. For the good and bad.
redwings is offline  
Old Jun 14, 22, 7:25 am
  #491  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP
Posts: 38,132
Originally Posted by chff View Post
The US DOT has a rule that if a flight gets cancelled the airline needs to refund the ticket within 7 days, but someone LH felt that can ignore the law and give everyone a run around..
A great many would share that feeling regarding an intra-Europe flight segment.

But I do agree with your overall sentiment.
weero is offline  
Old Jun 17, 22, 5:59 pm
  #492  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP
Posts: 38,132
Originally Posted by craz View Post
Let me try putting it this way, you have a trip where you are flying to Rome to arrive on 12/24..
I'd be miffed to put it mildly - partly also angry for not planning any better when I have an immovable appointment.

And I'd rant about Lufthansa and their incapable ground agents here.

What I would not do is, call the Italian staff fascisti and claim that the Italians have learned nothing from history and still treat the Swiss as they (and the French) did in 1515 at Marignano. And I'd not call a random Carabineri a Moschettieri del Duce.

Subtly different but different.
weero is offline  
Old Sep 20, 22, 4:22 am
  #493  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN**
Posts: 44,660
LH is the first airline to sign up to the IHRA

Lufthansa Group adopts IHRA antisemitism definition

First airline globally to endorse definition as part of global engagement gainst racism

The Lufthansa Group adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism, including its examples, joining other German companies and the Federal German government, in taking a leadership role in speaking out against antisemitism, discrimination as well all manifestations of racism. The Lufthansa Group is the first airline group globally to adopt the definition.

I speak with conviction when I say: there is no room for antisemitism, discrimination and racism of any kind in society, nor in the Lufthansa Group, Lufthansa Group Executive Board Member Christina Foerster, stated at a ceremony in Washington D.C. commemorating the adoption of the definition, which is guiding countries and corporations globally.

With the adoption of the IHRA definition, the Lufthansa Group reinforces the Groups global engagement against all forms of racist, xenophobic and antisemitic behavior.

Fundamental to standing against antisemitism is understanding what it is and how it manifests, both in overt forms and through unconscious bias. The IHRA definition recognizes all of this that is its distinct strength, noted Foerster.

The meaningful event brought together government officials from the U.S., Germany, and Israel as well as leaders from the American Jewish community. Foerster further announced the collaboration between the Lufthansa Group and the American Jewish Committee to develop further corporate sensitivity trainings.

Speaking at the ceremony were Ambassador Dr. Deborah Lipstadt, United States Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism and Dr. Felix Klein, Federal Government Commissioner for Jewish Life in Germany and the Fight against antisemitism, two of the leading authorities on combating
antisemitism, globally. Also joining were Dr. Emily Haber, German Ambassador to the U.S. and Michael Herzog, Israeli Ambassador to the U.S.

IHRA definition of antisemitism: Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish communityinstitutions and religious facilities. In addition, the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity, may also be the target of such attacks.
oliver2002 is offline  
Old Sep 20, 22, 4:36 am
  #494  
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
LH is the first airline to sign up to the IHRA
Got it.

One must think twice before speaking against Jewish owned property (businesses), institutions (the Israeli Defense Forces, the ADL), or the state of Israel lest they be labeled as "antisemites".

I wonder if an objective viewer might consider such immunization from criticism a form of supremacy. Is posing that question a form of antisemitism?
Ghoulish is offline  
Old Sep 20, 22, 1:32 pm
  #495  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP
Posts: 38,132
Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
LH is the first airline to sign up to the IHRA
"..endorse definition as part of global engagement gainst racism"

So if you gain (or gainst) something from it, it's ok ?
Sounds a bit like our banking system in the late days of The Great Patriotic War.


"Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property"
So criticizing anyone or their stuff is now antisemitic ?
That's tough for someone who complains all the time, such as I.
Ghoulish likes this.
weero is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread