Shocking Anti Semitic incident

Old May 24, 22, 12:14 pm
  #466  
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Originally Posted by chff View Post
who said their were "culprits"? Who said anyone really misbehaved in a way they should be removed from a flight
Very simple if a crew member tells you something and you dont listen thats good enough reason to be removed or be denied boarding by a GA or if the Capt deems theres a safely issue then to divert and the expense be charged to the culprits. So yes being asked to mask up properly and not doing so is a case of refusing to listen to a crews instructions, or being told you cant have more then 3 people standing together = no minyanim. If you are told to remain in your seat then dont get up etc etc etc etc

And Ive been on many a flight where there was a min of a few dz charidei Jews who decided the crew had no right to tell them what they can and cant do. UNFORTUNATELY its nothing new , There are tons of crews that will work with everyone and others that wont, just cause say on Sun a LH crew let everything slide by doesnt mean all the others must do likewise.

I dont have a problem with anyone who doesnt want to follow a crew members instructions that is if they charter a private flight and make all the arrangements prior as to what they can and cant do, if you fly commercial its NOT up to each person.
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Old May 24, 22, 1:10 pm
  #467  
 
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
IMO Yes, this letter was needed, but came too late. There should be some follow-up in terms of the culture problem at the airline.
Who is training and hiring Lufthansa employees that exhibit this ignorance?
A re-structuring may be needed at the airline as this was no small incident.
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Old May 24, 22, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by sobore View Post
IMO Yes, this letter was needed, but came too late.
Sure. The Twitter mob needs a culprit, verdict, and a public execution all inside of the working day. Investigating takes too long.

There should be some follow-up in terms of the culture problem at the airline.
Who is training and hiring Lufthansa employees that exhibit this ignorance?
A re-structuring may be needed at the airline as this was no small incident.
Get a life for Zeus' sake! It was a minor incident necessitated and made unavoidable by bad data and communications at the very moment. Keep that culture war hobby inside the US please - reprogramming employees and restructuring a huge company to prevent a tiny problem that can be addressed by some compensation, good heavens .

Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Apology letter from LH CEO to pax..
From the link:
"While most of the roughly 130 passengers on the flight have joined a class action lawsuit against the airline..".

So they are a group by their own definition.
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Old May 24, 22, 3:50 pm
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Originally Posted by weero View Post
Sure. The Twitter mob needs a culprit, verdict, and a public execution all inside of the working day. Investigating takes too long.
"While most of the roughly 130 passengers on the flight have joined a class action lawsuit against the airline..".

So they are a group by their own definition.


They became a group when Lufthansa decided to deny all of (((them))) boarding.

Again, I find it humorous that the FT LH-can-do-no-wrong fan club sticks up for an action that an airlines' own CEO has now called in writing embarrassing and said should have never happened.
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Last edited by ctownflyer; May 24, 22 at 4:29 pm
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Old May 24, 22, 4:18 pm
  #470  
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post


They became a group when Lufthansa decided to deny all of (((them))) boarding.

Again, I find it humorous that the FT LH-can-do-no-wrong fan club sticks up for an action that an airlines' own CEO has now called in writing embarrassing and said should have never happened?

Honestly that shouldnt come as any surprise, since its no different then your site where Dan MUST always be right according to your members and dare a person disagree they will Bully that person to no end
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Old May 24, 22, 5:12 pm
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Originally Posted by craz View Post
1- the data known and is fact is little to none in regards to the # of culprits on board the flight
Yes and that was what brought the whole mess about. The cabin crew of the longhaul should have done better due diligence IMO.

2- from the video it appears theres 1 IDIOT who yelled Nazi, so therefore punish everyone who is at the gate cause you dont know who it was???
Yes, we again don't know who it was. But I guess it affirmed the notion that there is some unsavory group dynamics at work here.

3- as for the calm down period, they acted at the gate ONLY due to being told NO FLIGHT FOR YOU, so they were banned way way before getting to the gate, the police were there before they would have boarded.
You find that credible? The police was called because of the way "they" acted on the flight. Maybe not aggressively but without regards to crew orders and other pax. The performance at the gate then cemented what some feared might transpire.

4- no way was it a safety measure it was Punishment plain and simple , since the crew didnt ID the culprits they were all made out to be the culprits, nice try
I fail to see the contradiction. The crew should have done a better job, I agree. But that doesn't render it a punishment.

And theres a pilot who posted thusly up thread.
Approximately - where?

It seems the known facts arent important to you, why I dont know..
I don't know what you are referring to.
This isn't an in dubio pro reo situation. People were deprived of their right to travel without due diligence but not with malice.

Had the Capt diverted to off load the known culprits and everyone missed the BUD connection or didnt end up making it on time to their destination it would be understandable. Since every passenger no matter who would have been effective, here its only the religious Jews that were affected.
So more people being affected is better?

Also why didnt the JFK Capt divert? maybe he felt there was no safety issue , Im sure if he felt there was a safety issue he would have landed at the closest open airport.
I don't know but mostly, I would guess, is that the scene unfolded slowly.
Diverting across the Ocean isn't entirely risk free, it may enrage the mob even more.
Also, quot licet 747 non licet A319. It's a difference if 30% of your passengers are up to Shenanigans or 80%.
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Old May 25, 22, 3:16 am
  #472  
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Originally Posted by weero View Post


This isn't an in dubio pro reo situation.

Also, quot licet 747 non licet A319. It's a difference if 30% of your passengers are up to Shenanigans or 80%.

Great! Now we need a latin glossary as well as the hebrew/yiddish one


BTW I'm guessing that stoking the righteous in their outrage has something to do with maximising the amounts of cash that can be gouged from Lufthansa.
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Old May 25, 22, 6:40 am
  #473  
 
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Originally Posted by weero View Post

Get a life for Zeus' sake! It was a minor incident necessitated and made unavoidable by bad data and communications at the very moment. Keep that culture war hobby inside the US please - reprogramming employees and restructuring a huge company to prevent a tiny problem that can be addressed by some compensation, good heavens .
It's a minor incident until it happens to you, then I bet it would not be so minor.
Blaming bad data and communication for outright anti-Semitism is foolish and naive.
Based on the actions of multiple LH employees this does demonstrate a culture problem.
Your view on the issue is bizarre at best.
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Old May 25, 22, 7:05 am
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK View Post
Great! Now we need a latin glossary as well as the hebrew/yiddish one


BTW I'm guessing that stoking the righteous in their outrage has something to do with maximising the amounts of cash that can be gouged from Lufthansa.
Considering I have no horse in this race, I'm curious to know why you think that would be a factor.
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Old May 25, 22, 7:42 am
  #475  
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Considering I have no horse in this race, I'm curious to know why you think that would be a factor.
I wouldnt say that, At first I believe you wanted in an honest way to help those who were Wronged. But even you posted numerous times on your site how 1 of your mistakes was not water marking the videos and pics with your site info = to drive more eyes to your site and how you contacted some sites to make sure your site got the credit ( which when you 1st started your site and reposted almost everything off of FT you NEVER mentioned your source and had folks think it was all coming from you).

So you do have a horse in the race in an indirect way.
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Old May 25, 22, 8:51 am
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Originally Posted by craz View Post
I wouldnt say that, At first I believe you wanted in an honest way to help those who were Wronged. But even you posted numerous times on your site how 1 of your mistakes was not water marking the videos and pics with your site info = to drive more eyes to your site and how you contacted some sites to make sure your site got the credit ( which when you 1st started your site and reposted almost everything off of FT you NEVER mentioned your source and had folks think it was all coming from you).

So you do have a horse in the race in an indirect way.
Well yes, when video that you sourced and edited gets ripped off, it's obvious in retrospect that I should have been more protective of it. At the end of the day, I do run a business and don't hide that. Everyone at this point understands that blogging as a business isn't altruistic, but that doesn't mean it can't also benefit your readers.

I joined FT and started blogging when I was a teenager literally decades ago. Not sure why you have an obsession of pointing that out multiple times in this thread. I'd like to think that in that time I've grown as a person and as a writer and at some point you need to let that anger go.

But no, I don't see how I have any horse in whether LH pays out lots of cash for this fiasco. Personally, I'd much rather see a sincere public mea culpa and what will be changed going forward.
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Old May 25, 22, 2:54 pm
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post

The ADL and the US ambassador against anti-Semitism both said that it was anti-Semitism, so whether you think it is or is not is irrelevant at this point.

your 1st 2 pts you can PM if you wish to further discuss them but I doubt you will since you havent answered my last PM of a few days ago

As for what The ADL and US Amb want to call it is up to them. If I was able to Id ask them the exact same question, can you please provide me Proof that the banning was due to someone being anti-semitic. theres no question that all the religious Jews on the JFK flight werent suppose to be allowed onto the BUD flight since it was wrongly assumed by someone/s that everyone was traveling as a single group. Should everyone of the religious passengers been singled out, No. Were they singled out only cause they were Jewish ,I dont believe so, they were singled out for traveling as 1 group where x members of that group didnt listen to the flight crew.

Now if LH says it has terminated x employees since upon investigation they found for eg social media accts where said employee made anti-semitic posts then that will solve that, till then theres no proof that being a Jew was the reason in and of itself

If say instead of religious Jews, it was Manchester United fans would that mean they were banned for being British, or it was all the black passengers that were banned would that mean it was due to racism and the person/s who did the banning was a racist.not in my book, although it may end up that way when its checked out.

Last edited by craz; May 25, 22 at 3:08 pm
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Old May 25, 22, 4:32 pm
  #478  
 
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Originally Posted by sobore View Post
It's a minor incident until it happens to you, then I bet it would not be so minor.
Sure, I'd be miffed, if I had been unfairly been denied boarding. But then I'd put up with compensation and some hate-posting on FT rather than demanding that all staff at BKK or PER - two places, I remember being treated unfairly - all be retrained to fit my personal cultural needs..

Blaming bad data and communication for outright anti-Semitism is foolish and naive.
Based on the actions of multiple LH employees this does demonstrate a culture problem.
If you'd really believe that they are a bunch of antisemites - which is ludicrous in itself - then demanding that they need to be "re-trained" is a ridiculous demand. Do you seriously think that people hate Jews because they have not been educated enough of the cultural subtleties of the orthodox subset of the Jewish religion? That's a fairly big disconnect.

Your view on the issue is bizarre at best.
Wild hand waving isn't an argument.
No one got injured, no one detained, no one got separated from their families or lost a lot of money. So it's not a major incident.

Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
..The ADL and the US ambassador against anti-Semitism both said that it was anti-Semitism, so whether you think it is or is not is irrelevant at this point.
Oh, that makes it official then .
A group for which the Norwegian brand Helly Hansen is "hate wear" and a Biden appointed activist who sees antisemitism in literally everything, most notably in Jimmie Carter (sic!) - I guess that is totally relevant for something that happened on foreign soil.
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Old Jun 12, 22, 8:18 pm
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I hope I am misinterpreting your statement

Originally Posted by IAN-UK View Post
Great! Now we need a latin glossary as well as the hebrew/yiddish one


BTW I'm guessing that stoking the righteous in their outrage has something to do with maximising the amounts of cash that can be gouged from Lufthansa.

The above sure reads like a dog whistle antisemitic troupe - "Oh those Jews, just out to grab money". Hopefully I am misunderstanding you.
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Old Jun 13, 22, 2:46 am
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Originally Posted by BJfly View Post
The above sure reads like a dog whistle antisemitic troupe - "Oh those Jews, just out to grab money". Hopefully I am misunderstanding you.
Your interpretations are yours alone. The sentiments, and the words you use to express them, are ugly. But they are your words: they mirror your own prejudices and experience, they do not reflect mine.

A significant proportion of FT exchanges involve configuring compensation and maximising the payout: that was my reference. I am blind to the interplay of any political, religious or gender issues that might colour the phenomenon of compo-culture.
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