Shocking Anti Semitic incident

Old May 19, 22, 2:26 pm
  #421  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: All of them...
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by craz View Post
The question (problem) is most likely if LH offers up a nice amount as compensation they will jump at it (free money) and the Truth will probably never be known
LH promised to make public the report
chff is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 2:29 pm
  #422  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: All of them...
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by craz View Post
but LH still mandated it and I believe still does
LH doesn't have a mandate, its the German government that has the mandate. Yet UA/AA don't enforce it, and seems LH has a gotten a waiver from the Bundesregierung for First Class passengers
chff is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 2:29 pm
  #423  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, France
Programs: LH HON****, AF/KL Gold; HHilton Diamond; Marriott Gold; IHG Platinium; Avis PresClub
Posts: 720
Originally Posted by craz View Post
1- Yet Germany decided that a mask wasnt needed at least @ FRA, yet LH decided to remain with the mandate which means if you were flying on LH you needed to be properly masked the entire time except when eating
To be very clear. An eventual Mask mandate in an airport is based on local state laws (Hesse for FRA). An mask mandate in an aircraft is based on Federal German law ( inside an aircraft). They may differ. So it is possible that in departure airport there is no mask mandate, whereas there is one in the aircraft and in the arrival airport.
The EU provides guidance in this respect, but it is not binding for the Federal government nor the state governments.
flospi likes this.
athome is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 2:50 pm
  #424  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Originally Posted by athome View Post
To be very clear. An eventual Mask mandate in an airport is based on local state laws (Hesse for FRA). An mask mandate in an aircraft is based on Federal German law ( inside an aircraft). They may differ. So it is possible that in departure airport there is no mask mandate, whereas there is one in the aircraft and in the arrival airport.
The EU provides guidance in this respect, but it is not binding for the Federal government nor the state governments.
I understood that more or less. Or as I posted on my last JetBlue flight MIA-JFK 2 weeks ago the only time a mask had to be worn was in JFK, not on the flight or @ MIA, and it wasnt only the Term @ JFK it included the AirTrain as well. which brings up tons of confusion for people who thought it wasnt a must any where any longer. Now if JetBlue wanted to I believe they can say everyone must be masked up on the flight even thou The FAA or CDC or whomever is in charge doesnt mandate that, Result would be dont fly JetBlue or whomever if you dont want to mask up and their policy is you have to.

thats what I was trying to say with LH , although you didnt have to mask up @ FRA and had to @ JFK LH held by masking up, to me its not important if it was due to German Fed Law or Hesse mandate or if it was just what LH wanted. since LH had it in place its the end of discussion, dont want to mask up no problem dont fly LH
craz is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 2:55 pm
  #425  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: WRO/BOS
Programs: LH HON/AF Gold
Posts: 221
Originally Posted by chff View Post
LH doesn't have a mandate, its the German government that has the mandate. Yet UA/AA don't enforce it, and seems LH has a gotten a waiver from the Bundesregierung for First Class passengers
Sorry for going off topic- but just curious about the waiver for first class passengers? Is this actually true?

Last edited by theKrafty1tar; May 20, 22 at 2:23 am
theKrafty1tar is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 2:55 pm
  #426  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Originally Posted by chff View Post
LH doesn't have a mandate, its the German government that has the mandate. Yet UA/AA don't enforce it, and seems LH has a gotten a waiver from the Bundesregierung for First Class passengers
Thx for this tidbit, weird that the 1st class cabin isnt a threat and masking isnt needed. I hope the FAs working there were never able to be seen by the passengers in the other cabins not wearing a mask, nor the passengers for that matter. I know it wouldnt have sat well with me if I saw passengers walking around w/o a mask or crew members and being told I must mask up, even if they didnt leave the FC cabin unmasked. Its simply asking for trouble to allow even the FC cabin to go maskless and force everyone else to mask up
craz is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 3:13 pm
  #427  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
so? I understand they werent 1 group except for being religious Jews, not sure the crew saw it that way. That doesnt mean any of the crew were AS or did what they did to get The Jews

1 of my neighbors , Rocky, always refers to the Hassidim moving into the area close by as Rabbis and assumes we are all together, why cause Im religious and they are. To him Satmar and Lubovs are 1 and the same. Are they? sure they both are religious Jews. So too theres a very good chance thats how those on the flight were made to be (yes wrongly) Rocky always tells me the same story how they buy bulbs from Israel (they own a large nursery) Sort like a non-religious Jew pulling a Bagel

Or when I was flying back to Israel on TW a few days after Rabin was killed 1 Fa after another came up to me saying how sorry they were, I thanked them and didnt explain there was no connection with me to Rabin ( whenever I flew I knew apx 95% of the crew since I flew so often we were like family) To the crew I lost my leader , go try and explain since I wasnt an Israeli citizen he wasnt my leader. You also have to try and see things from how they may be looking at it. Since Im wearing a yamulka even thou I dont have side curls that guy and I are the same. Its not done out being AS its just how people view things. Yet to others it appears as if its nothing less then anti-semitism maybe due to not being associated with non_Jews on a daily basis or engaging in talking with them

Last edited by craz; May 19, 22 at 3:21 pm
craz is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 5:02 pm
  #428  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DUS (and somewhere in transit)
Programs: LH SEN, AB PLAT, BA Gold, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, SPG Lifetime Platinum, IHG RA, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 10,140
Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
The LH apologists in this thread saying there was no Jewish discrimination have conveniently avoided answering this very straight-forward question.
The only one avoiding a clear answer to a straight forward question is yourself: Will you finally delete the hate speech in the posts in your blog? Or do you concur with such hate speach? This is an easy YES or NO question and no schribschrab will give an answer. And please give us an idea how to go ahead. How can one make sure that this religios sub-group - and I cite the posts in your blog - learns to behave themselves?
flospi likes this.
Flying Lawyer is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 5:07 pm
  #429  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer View Post
The only one avoiding a clear question is yourself: Will you finally delete the hate speech in the posts in your block? Or do you concur with such hate speach? These are easy YES or NO questions and no schribschrab will give an answer. And please give us an idea how to go ahead. How can one make sure that this group - and I cite the posts in your blog - learns to behave themselves?
Man are you ever asking for a bunch of miracles!! please dont hold your breath, waiting for any of it to happen. If you want to see hateful personal attacks , just join that site and post why Chabad isnt in the apple of your eye. their hands will be coming out of your monitor to grab your neck,Im sorry to say.
craz is offline  
Old May 19, 22, 7:10 pm
  #430  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, SPG PLT, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, Avis CHM.
Posts: 4,404
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer View Post
The only one avoiding a clear answer to a straight forward question is yourself: Will you finally delete the hate speech in the posts in your blog? Or do you concur with such hate speach? This is an easy YES or NO question and no schribschrab will give an answer. And please give us an idea how to go ahead. How can one make sure that this religios sub-group - and I cite the posts in your blog - learns to behave themselves?
Nice deflection. Does Mark Zuckerberg concur with everything written on Facebook or Gary Leff with everything posted on VFTW comments?

But no, you haven't answered my question. Wake me up when you have.
friedablass likes this.
ctownflyer is offline  
Old May 20, 22, 2:19 am
  #431  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DUS (and somewhere in transit)
Programs: LH SEN, AB PLAT, BA Gold, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, SPG Lifetime Platinum, IHG RA, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 10,140
Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Nice deflection. Does Mark Zuckerberg concur with everything written on Facebook or Gary Leff with everything posted on VFTW comments?
Nice try. I do not know whether they concur with everything written on their media. This is, however, not the relevant question. If they become aware or made aware of racist or hate speech, they certainly need to remove it. If not, they are responsible for the hate speech themselves and might well rightfully become liable for criminal prosecution in several countries. Facebook Germany stated to v/v the press that they do not tolerate hate speech:

Instagram und Facebook duldeten keinerlei Diskriminierung, sagte eine Sprecherin von Facebook Deutschland der Deutschen Presse-Agentur. Deshalb bekmpfen wir missbruchliches Verhalten auf unseren Plattformen und wollen die Menschen, die solche Inhalte teilen, zur Verantwortung ziehen. Dazu kooperiere der Konzern auch mit Strafverfolgungsbehrden, wenn ein ordnungsgemes Auskunftsersuchen vorliege.
https://www.muensterschezeitung.de/s...-druck-1020310

Convenience translation: "Instagram and Facebook do not tolerate any form of discrimination, a spokeswoman for Facebook Germany told the German Press Agency. "That's why we fight abusive behavior on our platforms and want to hold the people who share such content accountable." The group also cooperates with law enforcement authorities "if a proper request for information" is available

You have been made aware of shocking racist hate speech on your blog. if you allow people to post hate speech and keep this online, the responsibility for such hate speech is clearly yours. It is a criminal offense under several laws and to my understanding "chilul hashem". To my belief, you well disservice the interest of the Israeli people and the followers of Judaism as such. You might well accept this as free legal advise. I am still waiting for an answer: Do you share the hate speech on your very own business model, your blog?

Last edited by Flying Lawyer; May 20, 22 at 2:55 am
Flying Lawyer is offline  
Old May 20, 22, 2:45 am
  #432  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DUS (and somewhere in transit)
Programs: LH SEN, AB PLAT, BA Gold, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, SPG Lifetime Platinum, IHG RA, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 10,140
Originally Posted by craz View Post
Man are you ever asking for a bunch of miracles!! please dont hold your breath, waiting for any of it to happen. If you want to see hateful personal attacks , just join that site and post why Chabad isnt in the apple of your eye. their hands will be coming out of your monitor to grab your neck,Im sorry to say.
Thank you very much, this is the impression I unfortunately had to gain.

Just to understand better: Is my understanding correct that the chassidim believe to be superior to other Jewish groups, so to say, "the chasidim are the chosen group within the people selected by God"? At least one poster raised the further allegation that they are even a "race".

From what I read further, the chasidim discriminate against woman and LGBT. This goes as far, as it is reported, that they refuse to sit next to a woman on a plane. I read further that they promote that boys and girls may not be educated together. It appears to be public domain that most chasidim refuse to serve in the Israeli or any other army, promote marriages arranged by the parents or the community (to avoid the term "forced marriage") and marry within their even smaller subgroup. I read further, and this is very much in line with the impression one gains here, that the chassidim have a tendency to qualify criticism as "anti-semitic". They are, and this is widely reported, to a certain extend opposed to the state and the government of Israel.

They are, however, a small religious minority in the Jewish world (I read 5%), however strong in the US and pretend to speak for the entire Jewish world and the secular Jewish people, too. I am aware this is all OT but it helps to put these posts in the right context. Thank you.
flospi and gojko88 like this.
Flying Lawyer is offline  
Old May 20, 22, 5:53 am
  #433  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer View Post
Thank you very much, this is the impression I unfortunately had to gain.

Just to understand better: Is my understanding correct that the chassidim believe to be superior to other Jewish groups, so to say, "the chasidim are the chosen group within the people selected by God"? At least one poster raised the further allegation that they are even a "race".

From what I read further, the chasidim discriminate against woman and LGBT. This goes as far, as it is reported, that they refuse to sit next to a woman on a plane. I read further that they promote that boys and girls may not be educated together. It appears to be public domain that most chasidim refuse to serve in the Israeli or any other army, promote marriages arranged by the parents or the community (to avoid the term "forced marriage") and marry within their even smaller subgroup. I read further, and this is very much in line with the impression one gains here, that the chassidim have a tendency to qualify criticism as "anti-semitic". They are, and this is widely reported, to a certain extend opposed to the state and the government of Israel.

They are, however, a small religious minority in the Jewish world (I read 5%), however strong in the US and pretend to speak for the entire Jewish world and the secular Jewish people, too. I am aware this is all OT but it helps to put these posts in the right context. Thank you.
1- AFAIK I dont know of a single Hassdic group and there are many that feels/thinks they are superior to other Jews whatsoever. I think you are mixing up either The Shia and Sunnis or maybe its like that with the different branches of chirstanity. I never ever ever heard or read where anyone claims to be the chosen group over all the others.

The best way I can explain it is each sect came from a certain European town thats where they each get their name from. Sort of like each was a mayor of that town and when they moved on they left the mayors job to their kid. But unlike Islam no 1 group proclaims they are the chosen group and are better then the rest and will kill off anyone who doesnt hold by that.

2- Again I wouldnt say they discriminate against women or LGBT., you may see it that way but I dont whatsoever. Its Omni for me to explain why they dont and not enough time or space to post why.Whenwas the last time you read where a person born as a male gave birth to a child the way a woman does, its that discrimination, after all their are some animals that reproduce by themselves why not a human.

Most of what you posted are extremely isolated cases and not the norm. Ive sat next to a woman on a plane and religious ones at that that arent related to me at all and at times I was seated 1st and they came afterwards and sat down. Just because that 1 Sen lounge rep was an anti-semite doesnt mean every Sen lounge rep is, or that all FRA employees are or that all Germans are Im thankful the its the vast vast vast minority that are

As for the IDF its full of Hassidim serving, not all sects go in but the largest do

to marriages its not like you are trying to make it out to be. No one afaik is forced to marry anyone.There maybe a case here or there where they never met prior to getting married but again its the vast vast vast minority

against The State of Israel, some are the vast majority arent if they were why do the serve in the IDF?

Sorry to say this but it seems the books or papers or websites you are getting your info from is from hateful group that has no idea what they are talking about

Now Ive been on occasion in the boondocks when a friend had biz in that area and no less then a dz Hassidim came up to me (since just by looking at me they knew I didnt live there) told me I was coming home with them to eat dinner and they have a bed for me to sleep in and will arrange a tow for my car and a transport back to The City. They in general have set up a massive amount of Charidy organizations to help people not just for their sect or if you're Jewish during Covid at times I saw more non-Jews and non-whites on the line to get a food pkg or a meal then there were Jews I can go and on, what you described is so so so far from reality its not funny

As for whom speaks for whom. I didnt vote for Biden(nor Trump) yet Biden says he speaks for me and represents me, that couldnt be the furtherest thing from the truth . Did Merkel speak and represent all Germans? doubtful

the last time I read so much garbage was when I was reading posts on Dans site which in and of itself Im not a fan of ,But its a biz and his way to make money so thats his overriding concern, but Im also not a fan of any of the so called travel blogs, which are really only money making sites and use travel as their means to make it. They didnt start out as such but thats what they have become. Funny most bash how the FAs are hawking the credit cards their program have and yet those Bloggers are doing the exact same they want the referrel $$$$s for getting people to get the cards.
Flying Lawyer likes this.

Last edited by craz; May 20, 22 at 7:56 am
craz is offline  
Old May 20, 22, 7:03 am
  #434  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DUS (and somewhere in transit)
Programs: LH SEN, AB PLAT, BA Gold, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, SPG Lifetime Platinum, IHG RA, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 10,140
Thank you ever so much craz , this is really helpful!
Flying Lawyer is offline  
Old May 20, 22, 8:18 am
  #435  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,156
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer View Post
Thank you ever so much craz , this is really helpful!
that was just a very small nutshell

Basicaly not every German is an anti-semite are there Germans that are of cause , not every white cop is a racist are there white cops that are of cause. Is every single religious Jew living as they should, of cause not but try to. Im positive in any 1 group you will find heros and bad folks and mostly there are more good then bad in each group

The problem with the threads issue was All the religious Jews outwardly on that flight were grouped together as if they were in fact 1 group traveling together, which couldnt be the furthest from the Truth. Even among the Hassidim I dont have enough fingers and toes to count the number of the different sects. It would like I saying all non-Americans on a flight are flying together and are banned for 24 hrs since on the flight a few non-Americans didnt listen to the crews instructions and they are known not to. And grouping and punishing all the religious Jews was Wrong, but I still dont think it was due to being a Jew perse and thats what to me would be the deciding factor if it was anti-semitic or not. while many feel as long as its only a group of Jews its AS,Im not a part of that group.
craz is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread