craz

very true and I highly doubt it will get to a courtroom no way can LH afford that even if they think they can win it, they want to get this PR nightmare behind them And now that the Intl media is on it Im sure they will watch it to see the outcome and report on it

Flying Lawyer

I am confident you will find an excuse for everything. I was shocked by the behavior of the pax as reported in Jüdische Allgemeine and so more shocked by the behavior of the crowd in Frankfurt as to be seen on these videoclips. I am glad that both, the crew and the police kept as calm as they did. I this had happened in Ben Gurion Airport or on board of an EL AL plane, the reactions and the consequences would have been different

craz

I look at it from an unbiased position. And if you read my posts up thread you would have known that. The scene at the airport is to an extent very understandable, folks who had no connection with the 2 groups traveling were told you are off loaded (not these words) from the BUD flight due to your fellow group members disregard for LHs policy The sole exception is calling The Police Nazi's there is no reason to do so unless you know 100% that that particular officer is in fact a member of an Alt Right party, since I doont know how anyone could know that then they never should have used that word.Period

How they would have been dealt with be it in TLV,MIA,LHR,LED isnt important

Im 100% sure that there were religious Jews on the flight that didnt follow LHs policy when told to, just as there are what seems to be 2 non-Jewish males sitting with their masks not covering their noses. How many of each didnt follow LHs policy I dont know, but its fair to assume that not every religious Jew on the flight didnt comply and worst was simply bunching anyone who had an outward appearance of being Jewish both Hassid and Modern to ALL be a part a single group flying together , when all they had in common with one another was being a religious Jewish person

If Im mugged and the police come and ask me for a description of the muggers and I answer they were Asian the police shouldnt simply go around and arrest any Asian thats within a certain distance unless I said there were 2 males and they found only 2 male Asians within a short distance from the mugging site.The last thing the police should do is round up any and all Asians if I cant be more descriptive of those who mugged me. thats what Im saying here, yes there were probably religious Jews who didnt follow LHs policy no matter how many times the were told, so they and only them should have been tied up with plastic ties and arrest upon arrival into FRA or deported back to NY on the 1st flight. since it seems the crew had no idea which individuals were the problem, then you cant do anything but let them fly onwards with a warning this is your 1 and ONLY Warning if you dont listen on the BUD flight you will be arrested @ BUD and you will forfeit the rest of your tkts.

Can you imagine the outcry if the police would have rounded up lets say all 70 Asian males that were within a 2 block radius of where I was mugged and rightly so! Im sure youd be calling for them to be fired.

Its not a question if people kept not listening to the crew as told, that is fact they didnt, the question is who didnt listen, it wasnt every religious Jew on the flight so dont penalize every religious Jew on the flight just cause your crew doesnt know whom they were. Im sure not every 150 or whatever the # was yelled "Nazi", or acted up even @ FRA
,
I get sucker punched tonight at The Mets game by a white male wearing a Mets shirt, therefore you Im sure will agree any and all white males wearing a Mets uniform shirt should be thrown out of the ballpark and those with season passes loss them thats NUTS, now if I can positively ID the guy or guys thats something else but you dont throw out everybody because a few were in on the sucker punch and I cant be 100% sure who they are

As for the passengers statements in the German paper Im sure there is some truth to it, but as I said up thread I highly doubt they wore a mask 24/7 when in The US and at ALL times maintained a 6 ft distance from anyone w/o a mask! how can they since having to wear a mask in NY as well as most States has been shelved So I may believe their story to it was more then 2. I dont believe their description of what it did to them, for if it matter that much they should have been on the 1st flight out of The US once the States started shelving the mask rule and it seems they didnt jump at that time to get out, why not?

craz

let me guess that The US Govt employee must be a Charedi Jew and thats why she says what she did as Official Policy: https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-envoy-d...181138181.html

again its how LH reacted that is the problem (yes along with those who refused to listen to what the crew told them, no one I know condones those who didnt listen, but LH simply didnt handle it correctly)

ctownflyer

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ight-rcna28763

Excellent video telling it like it is.

craz

this story was already linked to in the post above yours

daisyatl

We will never know the full truth. Both sides are biased. We do know some people broke rules. We do know LH really overreacted and profiled. And they apologized for doing so and committed to doing better. I am not even sure if the rest matters. It is unfortunate but I hope this leads to more sensitivity. It really is the most one can hope for...

friedablass

I don't know about never knowing the truth; it would just be a long tedious process to grill down to it, but it's doable. You individually interview all 250 or whatever # passengers there were on there and then each FA for their take. You look at available pictures and videos. You weed out the liars when you see nobody and nothing corroborating their stories and you can get as close to the truth as possible. I don't think they'll do this but this is one way of attempting to get to the bottom of this and airing the true facts.

8420PR

I take 5 things away:
- it wasn't a pleasant flight from JFK to FRA for the crew in the large economy cabins - the multiple announcements from the Captain, plus 24 police at the gate of the connecting flight is not for one or two people not wearing masks. However I can't see it being that bad.
- there is no institutional Anti-Semitism at Lufthansa - there are no rules saying if one Jewish person misbehaves all should be punished.
- there was probably implicit Anti-Semitism from the FA's on the flight from JFK - once some visibly Jewish people refused to follow the rules more were tarnished with the same brush. I can see that being how it escalated to the groups connections cancelled and 24 police at the gate.
- there was certainly implicit Anti-Semitism from the Gate Agents for the BUD flight in FRA.- I suspect the instructions were to deny boarding to the group which ended up being denying boarding to Jewish looking people from the JFK flight. As things escalated the video of the GA specifically blaming the "Jews from NYC" is actual anti-semitism - whether said in anger or not.
- there is a video of the passengers calling the police the N word, and the N word is mentioned 70 times in the comments of the original article. Not sure why but I was a bit shocked.

This is not good people on both sides - it shows the sorry state of humanity today. I don't know how to fix it, but I think the experience of my mother in law offers some hope: I visited for Christmas 2015 and she spent the entire time complaining about the foreigners /refugees) coming to the village where she lives. In 2018 we didn't visit and she had Christmas drinks with the same foreigners and spent the time complaining about her son in law not visiting. People are people, no matter the skin colour, religion, sexuality etc.

daisyatl

I am not sure it matters. I think the public has moved on. I think LH clearly did some profiling. It is on video. They are committed to better educating and training their employees. To take this further won't change what happened. The only thing to combat what LH did is education and training. No one can change what happened. A lawsuit does nothing. As a Jew, I am sad that it happened and feel for others but my I can't imagine a lawsuit. I don't think they will ultimately seek that. I suspect it will be payment for costs, etc. and perhaps accept an offer from LH to donate to something. The only time i can see a lawsuit making sense is if the discrimination was maybe related to a job or something along those lines. You can, in some way, quantify a loss. That is, loss of promotion or potential job. Anyway, I hope everyone made it home safe and sound.

craz

Doubt thats possible and if it is youd end up as it is now some saying it was just a handful and the other side claiming it was most of them. Now if they had to appear in court and swear/promise you might end up with most not showing up even if those US based can do it over here and not travel there

those who feel they stand to make out like bandits wont say yea it was most of us even if it was true nature of the beast especially if you arent under any oath , and thos ewho want to make it out that only a handful listened most likely wont backtrack at this point even if its not true

friedablass

Passengers? I heard in a video one person saying it once and I sure hope that was it. Where did you see/ hear multiple passengers saying it?

friedablass

If it doesn't matter then there's no point in making a statement that we will never know the truth. There are ways to find out, this isn't only between 2 people where it would be the word of 1 against the other. That's all I'm saying.

I hope so too.

You have any better idea(s) you can suggest it to the relevant parties .

That was just a suggestion and of course I'm not expecting anyone to run with it or that it was without its shortcomings.

ctownflyer

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael...sh-passengers/

daisyatl

No offense but Forbes is the worst. Contributors are people who pay to post. I think the public has moved on. Again, that is a good thing. That means that action is being taken. That should be the goal. More "press" should not be and it is not clear why anyone would want more.