LO/LH disruptions due to Polish ATC restrictions starting May 1, 2022
Apr 24, 2022, 8:05 am
#16
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: WAW
Programs: LH SEN *
Posts: 1,149
The title of the thread is misleading, flight cancelations will affect all carriers flying to/out of Poland, not just LOT.
According to the press, "some flight irregularities" means that around 300 flights might be canceled daily (out of around 700 flying over Poland). In the worst case scenario, Eurocontrol expects that 1300 flights will be canceled only during the long weekend in Poland (April 30-May 3) and both Warsaw airports, due to air control staff shortage, will be able to work only from 9:30 AM to 5 PM.
According to the press, "some flight irregularities" means that around 300 flights might be canceled daily (out of around 700 flying over Poland). In the worst case scenario, Eurocontrol expects that 1300 flights will be canceled only during the long weekend in Poland (April 30-May 3) and both Warsaw airports, due to air control staff shortage, will be able to work only from 9:30 AM to 5 PM.
Apr 24, 2022, 9:05 am
#17
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: Miles & More, BA Executive Club
Posts: 751
The title of the thread is misleading, flight cancelations will affect all carriers flying to/out of Poland, not just LOT.
According to the press, "some flight irregularities" means that around 300 flights might be canceled daily (out of around 700 flying over Poland). In the worst case scenario, Eurocontrol expects that 1300 flights will be canceled only during the long weekend in Poland (April 30-May 3) and both Warsaw airports, due to air control staff shortage, will be able to work only from 9:30 AM to 5 PM.
According to the press, "some flight irregularities" means that around 300 flights might be canceled daily (out of around 700 flying over Poland). In the worst case scenario, Eurocontrol expects that 1300 flights will be canceled only during the long weekend in Poland (April 30-May 3) and both Warsaw airports, due to air control staff shortage, will be able to work only from 9:30 AM to 5 PM.
Apr 24, 2022, 9:21 am
#18
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: Miles & More, BA Executive Club
Posts: 751
From what I read the Polish CAA will heavily reduce the number of flights into/out of Polish airports if no agreement is reached.
Also currently 206 people operate the Warsaw area, 180 of which have resigned and their notice period ends 30APR.
Also currently 206 people operate the Warsaw area, 180 of which have resigned and their notice period ends 30APR.
Apr 24, 2022, 5:05 pm
#19
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: Miles & More, BA Executive Club
Posts: 751
Statement from the Polish CAA about meeting with Eurocontrol and PANSA on Friday 22nd April 2022:
With reference to the talks between the Polish Air Navigation Services Agency (PANSA) and the air traffic controllers, a meeting of the President of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) with the PANSA representatives and the European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation (EUROCONTROL) was organized on April 22, 2022. The meeting concerned a potential launch of the massive cancellation procedure, i.e. flights cancellation. At present the procedure has not been initiated.
Together with EUROCONTROL it was established that despite a decreased number of flight controllers, the flight operations from Polish regional airports and over Poland should be performed without violent disturbances. More irregularities are to be expected at the airports in Warsaw and Modlin.
Regardless of how much the air traffic is going to be limited, all flight operations will be performed with the preservation of the safety standards.
The President of the CAA, on the basis of tools and competences defined in Art. 21 of the Act of July 3, 2002 – Aviation Law, performs oversight over PANSA whose task is, especially, to ensure safety and continuity of air traffic.
Nevertheless, the President of the CAA’s competences do not cover the ownership supervision of PANSA. The President of the CAA has neither authority nor tools to engage in social disputes arising from the labor law in institutions he oversees.
Although the CAA is not a party to the dispute, it takes any possible steps to preserve the continuity of flight operations and is in constant contact with appropriate international aviation institutions, inclusive of EUROCONTROL and the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).
Together with EUROCONTROL it was established that despite a decreased number of flight controllers, the flight operations from Polish regional airports and over Poland should be performed without violent disturbances. More irregularities are to be expected at the airports in Warsaw and Modlin.
Regardless of how much the air traffic is going to be limited, all flight operations will be performed with the preservation of the safety standards.
The President of the CAA, on the basis of tools and competences defined in Art. 21 of the Act of July 3, 2002 – Aviation Law, performs oversight over PANSA whose task is, especially, to ensure safety and continuity of air traffic.
Nevertheless, the President of the CAA’s competences do not cover the ownership supervision of PANSA. The President of the CAA has neither authority nor tools to engage in social disputes arising from the labor law in institutions he oversees.
Although the CAA is not a party to the dispute, it takes any possible steps to preserve the continuity of flight operations and is in constant contact with appropriate international aviation institutions, inclusive of EUROCONTROL and the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).
Apr 25, 2022, 4:33 pm
#20
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: Miles & More, BA Executive Club
Posts: 751
I’ve just spoken to LOT and a decision is expected Thursday or Friday. LOT will be awaiting on the Polish CAA and Eurocontrol to activate the mass cancellation plan. Yes, it is true all carriers using Polish airspace will be affected, the airline affected the most will be LOT.
Apr 25, 2022, 11:28 pm
#21
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: WAW
Programs: LH SEN *
Posts: 1,149
If no agreement has been reached, from May 1st WAW airport will work from 9:30AM to 5:00PM, and there will be a limited list of 32 "priority airports" from which/where flights will be flown.
Apr 25, 2022, 11:48 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: WAW
Programs: LH SEN *
Posts: 1,149
The above-mentioned list of priority airports includes: London Heathrow, London Luton, London Stansted, Frankfurt, New York, Chicago, Paris, Brussels, Istanbul, Rome, Amsterdam, Toronto, Dubai, Incheon, Munich, Vienna, Tel Aviv, Oslo, Zurich, Dublin, Copenhagen, Budapest, Vilnius, Prague, Bucharest, Düsseldorf, Barcelona, Lisbon, Tbilisi, Berlin, Rzeszów, Szczecin-Goleniów
Apr 26, 2022, 1:43 am
#23
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Warsaw
Programs: Miles and More (Senator)
Posts: 75
The above-mentioned list of priority airports includes: London Heathrow, London Luton, London Stansted, Frankfurt, New York, Chicago, Paris, Brussels, Istanbul, Rome, Amsterdam, Toronto, Dubai, Incheon, Munich, Vienna, Tel Aviv, Oslo, Zurich, Dublin, Copenhagen, Budapest, Vilnius, Prague, Bucharest, Düsseldorf, Barcelona, Lisbon, Tbilisi, Berlin, Rzeszów, Szczecin-Goleniów
Apr 26, 2022, 2:50 am
#24
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
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Posts: 5,879
Apr 26, 2022, 4:12 am
#26
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: M&M
Posts: 145
Folks, is this situation still unconfirmed?
I'm just wondering how likely it is that the first leg of my journey WAW-FRA-LOS on 08.05 (LH1353) will be cancelled is?
It's scheduled for 06:25 departure from WAW in order to make the LOS connection.
What would LH do in this case? Fly us the day before and put us in a hotel? Or leave it to us to resolve?
I'm just wondering how likely it is that the first leg of my journey WAW-FRA-LOS on 08.05 (LH1353) will be cancelled is?
It's scheduled for 06:25 departure from WAW in order to make the LOS connection.
What would LH do in this case? Fly us the day before and put us in a hotel? Or leave it to us to resolve?
Apr 26, 2022, 5:01 am
#27
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Warsaw
Programs: Miles and More (Senator)
Posts: 75
As per the published regulation priority will be given to the airline that has flown most pax on a given route in years 2019-2021 - I'd assume that for LHR it would be LO. Not so sure about AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC and ZRH though - might well be the case that KL, AF, LH and LX had more pax on these routes.
Apr 26, 2022, 5:06 am
#28
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Warsaw
Programs: Miles and More (Senator)
Posts: 75
Folks, is this situation still unconfirmed?
I'm just wondering how likely it is that the first leg of my journey WAW-FRA-LOS on 08.05 (LH1353) will be cancelled is?
It's scheduled for 06:25 departure from WAW in order to make the LOS connection.
What would LH do in this case? Fly us the day before and put us in a hotel? Or leave it to us to resolve?
I'm just wondering how likely it is that the first leg of my journey WAW-FRA-LOS on 08.05 (LH1353) will be cancelled is?
It's scheduled for 06:25 departure from WAW in order to make the LOS connection.
What would LH do in this case? Fly us the day before and put us in a hotel? Or leave it to us to resolve?
Apr 26, 2022, 5:20 am
#29
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Warsaw
Programs: Miles and More (Senator)
Posts: 75
As per the published regulation priority will be given to the airline that has flown most pax on a given route in years 2019-2021 - I'd assume that for LHR it would be LO. Not so sure about AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC and ZRH though - might well be the case that KL, AF, LH and LX had more pax on these routes.
1) London - Heathrow (EGLL) - PLL LOT;
2) London - Luton (EGGW) - Wizz Air,
3) London - Stansted (EGSS) - Ryanair,
4) Frankfurt (EDDF) - Lufthansa,
5) New York-JFK (KJFK) - PLL LOT,
6) Chicago (KORD) - PLL LOT,
7) Paris (LFPG) - Air France,
8) Brussels (EBBR) - PLL LOT,
9) Istanbul (LTFM) - Turkish Airlines.
10) Rome (LIRF) - Wizz Air,
11) Amsterdam (EHAM) - KLM,
12) Toronto (CYYZ) - PLL LOT,
13) Dubai (OMDB) - Emirates,
14) Seoul-Incheon (RKSI) - PLL LOT,
15) Munich (EDDM) - Lufthansa,
16) Rzeszów (EPRZ) - PLL LOT,
17) Vienna (LOWW) - Austrian Airlines,
18) Tel Aviv (LLBG) - PLL LOT,
19) Oslo (ENGM) - PLL LOT,
20) Zurich (LSZH) - Swiss,
21) Dublin (EIDW) - Ryanair,
22) Copenhagen (EKCH) - PLL LOT,
23) Budapest (LHBP) - PLL LOT,
24) Vilnius (EYVI) - PLL LOT,
25) Prague (LKPR) - PLL LOT,
26) Bucharest (LROP) - PLL LOT,
27) Duesseldorf (EDDL) - PLL LOT,
28) Barcelona (LEBL) - PLL LOT,
29) Lisbon (LPPT) - TAP Air Portugal,
30) Tbilisi (UGTB) - PLL LOT,
31) Berlin (EDDB) - PLL LOT,
32) Szczecin-Goleniów (EPSC) - PLL LOT.
Apr 26, 2022, 5:21 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: Miles & More, BA Executive Club
Posts: 751
Just so I’m clear, are these flights only taking place between 09:30AM and 5PM? I thought it might be normal operations in those hours with the list being applied out of those key hours.