[SCANDAL] Lufthansa do not refund and reject CC chargeback!
Mar 17, 2020, 2:22 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
[SCANDAL] Lufthansa do not refund and reject CC chargeback!
I want to share my (first) experience with a refund process with Lufthansa.
My ticket was a revenue First Class Ticket to Shanghai in April.
Here is what happened,
I was travelling to Shanghai to watch the Formula 1.
The race got cancelled, I can't exactly remember the date but I think it was around mid February the decision from F1 came that it got cancelled/postponed.
A fun fact is that F1 refunded my money instantly, they arrived in my bank account after only 2 days! That is very good calculating how many people they had to refund/process.
Here is how Lufthansa handled a First Class Ticket refund:
After the race got cancelled I called Lufthansa February 17th and at that time Lufthansa website was very confusing. It said you could cancel flights to Mainland China but also something about March 31.
So I called February 17th, and pretty quickly (this was before the Corona situation escalated) an agent picked up and I asked her about my trip. Since I was not sure If I was entitled to a full refund I asked her 5 times If I were to get a full refund, because I was not interested to cancel my trip otherwise since it would only return peanuts/taxes. She put me on hold to go and check and came back some 5-10 minutes later and said to me, yes sir. You will get a full refund because of the Corona Situation in China.
So she cancelled the trip and I got a cancellation email shortly after.
I was told to wait 7 days until the money would appear in my account.
February 26, 7 working days later I have no money in my account so I decide to call and check what's going on. An other agent answers this time and says to me: Sorry sir, I think the last agent you spoke to a week ago didn't send the file (or something like that). I assume some sort of refund file to refunds department. Even so, I was told maximum 3-5 days, I would have my money.
I wait 3-4 days, and make a short call March 2nd just to confirm whether the money has started to process since I had read some horror stories online regarding Lufthansa refunds. (people who waited several months). An agent picks up, telling me some error has occured? and puts me on hold. Comes back with some excuse and says she has put this on a rush for me. You will get your money in maximum 3-4 days.
I wait 6 working days and calls back March 10. At this point I am really frustrated that no money has arrived in my account and I get to speak with an agent called Shelly. She seems really nice and puts me on hold for over 40 minutes and comes back to me with a long explanation what has happened.
She tells me the first agent who answered my very first call in February made a mistake, since she cancelled my flight even though the Lufthansa waiver window for Corona cancellation at that time was only to March 31. I panic and try to say to her, yes but I asked her 5 times. Do I get a full refund?
She keeps on explaining that yes, you will get a full refund but since the waiver window was only to March 31 the first agent filled out a wrong kind of refund? or something like that.
Now your flights is officially cancelled and we need to do a new refund.
But sir, I promise you the money now in 3 to maximum 5 days. We deeply regret the situation and the hassle this has caused you. She was really friendly and this time I believed Lufthansa support since she put me on hold for 40 minutes, it felt like she really cared about the situation and took care of it. She told me to call back on Tuesday (today) if I had no recieved any money.
Well, now it's almost impossible to reach Lufthansa because the corona has escalated so today I did not have a choice but to dispute the orignal transaction with Revolut. Soon it's March 18th and still no money in my account and I have given up. Now I have to hope for Revolut to accept my dispute request.
I sincerely hope you will never have to deal with Lufthansa refunds department ever in your life.
Are they stalling refunds now because of the situation with Corona? Remember that when I started this case the situation in Europe was not even that bad so I don't understand the stalling here. It's so many lies and excuses on top of each other.
I am deeply disappointed with Lufthansa. If the case was started this week or last I would understand because now it's chaotic but 1 month ago it was not so bad in Europe and having to wait over 1 month for a refund in my world is not great. Five stars to F1 who refunded me within 2 days in comparission.
If Lufthansa said from the beginning, like that a refund may take up to 30-60 days or something I would not complain. It's just annoying being told 3-5 days several times (we promise) and then no money comes. It's very frustrating for me.
Andaz
My ticket was a revenue First Class Ticket to Shanghai in April.
Here is what happened,
I was travelling to Shanghai to watch the Formula 1.
The race got cancelled, I can't exactly remember the date but I think it was around mid February the decision from F1 came that it got cancelled/postponed.
A fun fact is that F1 refunded my money instantly, they arrived in my bank account after only 2 days! That is very good calculating how many people they had to refund/process.
Here is how Lufthansa handled a First Class Ticket refund:
After the race got cancelled I called Lufthansa February 17th and at that time Lufthansa website was very confusing. It said you could cancel flights to Mainland China but also something about March 31.
So I called February 17th, and pretty quickly (this was before the Corona situation escalated) an agent picked up and I asked her about my trip. Since I was not sure If I was entitled to a full refund I asked her 5 times If I were to get a full refund, because I was not interested to cancel my trip otherwise since it would only return peanuts/taxes. She put me on hold to go and check and came back some 5-10 minutes later and said to me, yes sir. You will get a full refund because of the Corona Situation in China.
So she cancelled the trip and I got a cancellation email shortly after.
I was told to wait 7 days until the money would appear in my account.
February 26, 7 working days later I have no money in my account so I decide to call and check what's going on. An other agent answers this time and says to me: Sorry sir, I think the last agent you spoke to a week ago didn't send the file (or something like that). I assume some sort of refund file to refunds department. Even so, I was told maximum 3-5 days, I would have my money.
I wait 3-4 days, and make a short call March 2nd just to confirm whether the money has started to process since I had read some horror stories online regarding Lufthansa refunds. (people who waited several months). An agent picks up, telling me some error has occured? and puts me on hold. Comes back with some excuse and says she has put this on a rush for me. You will get your money in maximum 3-4 days.
I wait 6 working days and calls back March 10. At this point I am really frustrated that no money has arrived in my account and I get to speak with an agent called Shelly. She seems really nice and puts me on hold for over 40 minutes and comes back to me with a long explanation what has happened.
She tells me the first agent who answered my very first call in February made a mistake, since she cancelled my flight even though the Lufthansa waiver window for Corona cancellation at that time was only to March 31. I panic and try to say to her, yes but I asked her 5 times. Do I get a full refund?
She keeps on explaining that yes, you will get a full refund but since the waiver window was only to March 31 the first agent filled out a wrong kind of refund? or something like that.
Now your flights is officially cancelled and we need to do a new refund.
But sir, I promise you the money now in 3 to maximum 5 days. We deeply regret the situation and the hassle this has caused you. She was really friendly and this time I believed Lufthansa support since she put me on hold for 40 minutes, it felt like she really cared about the situation and took care of it. She told me to call back on Tuesday (today) if I had no recieved any money.
Well, now it's almost impossible to reach Lufthansa because the corona has escalated so today I did not have a choice but to dispute the orignal transaction with Revolut. Soon it's March 18th and still no money in my account and I have given up. Now I have to hope for Revolut to accept my dispute request.
I sincerely hope you will never have to deal with Lufthansa refunds department ever in your life.
Are they stalling refunds now because of the situation with Corona? Remember that when I started this case the situation in Europe was not even that bad so I don't understand the stalling here. It's so many lies and excuses on top of each other.
I am deeply disappointed with Lufthansa. If the case was started this week or last I would understand because now it's chaotic but 1 month ago it was not so bad in Europe and having to wait over 1 month for a refund in my world is not great. Five stars to F1 who refunded me within 2 days in comparission.
If Lufthansa said from the beginning, like that a refund may take up to 30-60 days or something I would not complain. It's just annoying being told 3-5 days several times (we promise) and then no money comes. It's very frustrating for me.
Andaz
Last edited by Andaz; Mar 17, 2020 at 2:31 pm
Mar 17, 2020, 4:28 pm
#2
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
No, I have only written a statement to Customer Relations yesterday complaining and explaing the situation. Other than that I have only spoken to LH over phone since they don't offer any service over email/facebook/twitter regarding bookings, just general questions so phone is the only option?
They have confirmed I will get a full refund multiple times. When I say the booking code they have saved all information on file so I am not worried about that.
No one in their right mind would cancel a first class ticket when it's not refundable. I'd rather throw it away than cancel it and receive like 50 euros.
I asked the first agent 6 times and she confirmed. All other agents have seen the notes on the booking code and said the same thing.
I have no reasons to believe that Lufthansa will 'scam me'. It's just a strange situation overall and I will call as soon as they open the phones tomorrow and ask for Shelly.
The cancellation email just shows:
Lufthansa booking code: XXXXXX
Display/edit booking Cancellation Confirmation
From now on I will record all my phone calls, just for my own safety. Just sad that you need to do that 2020.
Andaz
They have confirmed I will get a full refund multiple times. When I say the booking code they have saved all information on file so I am not worried about that.
No one in their right mind would cancel a first class ticket when it's not refundable. I'd rather throw it away than cancel it and receive like 50 euros.
I asked the first agent 6 times and she confirmed. All other agents have seen the notes on the booking code and said the same thing.
I have no reasons to believe that Lufthansa will 'scam me'. It's just a strange situation overall and I will call as soon as they open the phones tomorrow and ask for Shelly.
The cancellation email just shows:
Lufthansa booking code: XXXXXX
Display/edit booking Cancellation Confirmation From now on I will record all my phone calls, just for my own safety. Just sad that you need to do that 2020.Andaz
Last edited by Andaz; Mar 17, 2020 at 4:41 pm
Mar 17, 2020, 4:55 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
That is actually illegal in Germany and may present a criminal act.
I don't think that LH wants to scam you. A scam would require a bad intention.
The problem here seem to be that ticket was cancelled hastily on your side. You should have waited for some written cancellation waiver advise. A passenger cancelling a ticket is a very straightforward matter.
The issue is the subsequent refund process. If your original ticket was mostly non-refundable, the system would not follow through with a full refund. I was reading through your original posting, and I couldn't find any account on that you have gotten a written confirmation on the full refund.
It needs human intervention. As it stands now there was no explicit cancellation waiver in place when you cancelled the ticket. Hence, your refund request is keeping to bounce back again and again.
What you need now is some good will on the part of LH. With the current ongoing situation you may have to wait very, very long to receive that level of good will.
With the news situation on Feb 17, I think it was very easy to predict that the China flights in April are still to be cancelled by the airline.
You should have waited a couple of weeks, esp. if you had a mostly non-refundable ticket.
I don't think that LH wants to scam you. A scam would require a bad intention.
The problem here seem to be that ticket was cancelled hastily on your side. You should have waited for some written cancellation waiver advise. A passenger cancelling a ticket is a very straightforward matter.
The issue is the subsequent refund process. If your original ticket was mostly non-refundable, the system would not follow through with a full refund. I was reading through your original posting, and I couldn't find any account on that you have gotten a written confirmation on the full refund.
It needs human intervention. As it stands now there was no explicit cancellation waiver in place when you cancelled the ticket. Hence, your refund request is keeping to bounce back again and again.
What you need now is some good will on the part of LH. With the current ongoing situation you may have to wait very, very long to receive that level of good will.
With the news situation on Feb 17, I think it was very easy to predict that the China flights in April are still to be cancelled by the airline.
You should have waited a couple of weeks, esp. if you had a mostly non-refundable ticket.
In what world would an agent working for Lufthansa lie to a passenger? Makes no sense. Yes, I could have waited but look at this picture.
(Good recommendation btw. I will next time demand a written confirmation before doing anything and didn't know it was illegal to record. You have no evidence, you can't modify bookings over the computer, you can't record phone calls? You have no proof in case of error then. Really bad! That's their plan?)
This is a printscreen I took the day I cancelled the flight. How would you understand the red outline? As far as I know they could have been much clearer if it was just to March 28/31? It does not say. Just that they offer free cancellation/rebooking.
If it was some limit they could easily have added: to/from Mainland China until XX:XX. Maybe they meant to end of March, still not very clear. Also as I mentioned, the agent confirmed my April flight would get me a full refund after speaking with a supervisor. I don't expect an agent to straight up lie to my face.
Andaz
Last edited by Andaz; Mar 17, 2020 at 5:08 pm
Mar 24, 2020, 12:01 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
I want to share my (first) experience with a refund process with Lufthansa.
My ticket was a revenue First Class Ticket to Shanghai in April.
Here is what happened,
I was travelling to Shanghai to watch the Formula 1.
The race got cancelled, I can't exactly remember the date but I think it was around mid February the decision from F1 came that it got cancelled/postponed.
A fun fact is that F1 refunded my money instantly, they arrived in my bank account after only 2 days! That is very good calculating how many people they had to refund/process.
Here is how Lufthansa handled a First Class Ticket refund:
After the race got cancelled I called Lufthansa February 17th and at that time Lufthansa website was very confusing. It said you could cancel flights to Mainland China but also something about March 31.
So I called February 17th, and pretty quickly (this was before the Corona situation escalated) an agent picked up and I asked her about my trip. Since I was not sure If I was entitled to a full refund I asked her 5 times If I were to get a full refund, because I was not interested to cancel my trip otherwise since it would only return peanuts/taxes. She put me on hold to go and check and came back some 5-10 minutes later and said to me, yes sir. You will get a full refund because of the Corona Situation in China.
So she cancelled the trip and I got a cancellation email shortly after.
I was told to wait 7 days until the money would appear in my account.
February 26, 7 working days later I have no money in my account so I decide to call and check what's going on. An other agent answers this time and says to me: Sorry sir, I think the last agent you spoke to a week ago didn't send the file (or something like that). I assume some sort of refund file to refunds department. Even so, I was told maximum 3-5 days, I would have my money.
I wait 3-4 days, and make a short call March 2nd just to confirm whether the money has started to process since I had read some horror stories online regarding Lufthansa refunds. (people who waited several months). An agent picks up, telling me some error has occured? and puts me on hold. Comes back with some excuse and says she has put this on a rush for me. You will get your money in maximum 3-4 days.
I wait 6 working days and calls back March 10. At this point I am really frustrated that no money has arrived in my account and I get to speak with an agent called Shelly. She seems really nice and puts me on hold for over 40 minutes and comes back to me with a long explanation what has happened.
She tells me the first agent who answered my very first call in February made a mistake, since she cancelled my flight even though the Lufthansa waiver window for Corona cancellation at that time was only to March 31. I panic and try to say to her, yes but I asked her 5 times. Do I get a full refund?
She keeps on explaining that yes, you will get a full refund but since the waiver window was only to March 31 the first agent filled out a wrong kind of refund? or something like that.
Now your flights is officially cancelled and we need to do a new refund.
But sir, I promise you the money now in 3 to maximum 5 days. We deeply regret the situation and the hassle this has caused you. She was really friendly and this time I believed Lufthansa support since she put me on hold for 40 minutes, it felt like she really cared about the situation and took care of it. She told me to call back on Tuesday (today) if I had no recieved any money.
Well, now it's almost impossible to reach Lufthansa because the corona has escalated so today I did not have a choice but to dispute the orignal transaction with Revolut. Soon it's March 18th and still no money in my account and I have given up. Now I have to hope for Revolut to accept my dispute request.
I sincerely hope you will never have to deal with Lufthansa refunds department ever in your life.
Are they stalling refunds now because of the situation with Corona? Remember that when I started this case the situation in Europe was not even that bad so I don't understand the stalling here. It's so many lies and excuses on top of each other.
I am deeply disappointed with Lufthansa. If the case was started this week or last I would understand because now it's chaotic but 1 month ago it was not so bad in Europe and having to wait over 1 month for a refund in my world is not great. Five stars to F1 who refunded me within 2 days in comparission.
If Lufthansa said from the beginning, like that a refund may take up to 30-60 days or something I would not complain. It's just annoying being told 3-5 days several times (we promise) and then no money comes. It's very frustrating for me.
Andaz
My ticket was a revenue First Class Ticket to Shanghai in April.
Here is what happened,
I was travelling to Shanghai to watch the Formula 1.
The race got cancelled, I can't exactly remember the date but I think it was around mid February the decision from F1 came that it got cancelled/postponed.
A fun fact is that F1 refunded my money instantly, they arrived in my bank account after only 2 days! That is very good calculating how many people they had to refund/process.
Here is how Lufthansa handled a First Class Ticket refund:
After the race got cancelled I called Lufthansa February 17th and at that time Lufthansa website was very confusing. It said you could cancel flights to Mainland China but also something about March 31.
So I called February 17th, and pretty quickly (this was before the Corona situation escalated) an agent picked up and I asked her about my trip. Since I was not sure If I was entitled to a full refund I asked her 5 times If I were to get a full refund, because I was not interested to cancel my trip otherwise since it would only return peanuts/taxes. She put me on hold to go and check and came back some 5-10 minutes later and said to me, yes sir. You will get a full refund because of the Corona Situation in China.
So she cancelled the trip and I got a cancellation email shortly after.
I was told to wait 7 days until the money would appear in my account.
February 26, 7 working days later I have no money in my account so I decide to call and check what's going on. An other agent answers this time and says to me: Sorry sir, I think the last agent you spoke to a week ago didn't send the file (or something like that). I assume some sort of refund file to refunds department. Even so, I was told maximum 3-5 days, I would have my money.
I wait 3-4 days, and make a short call March 2nd just to confirm whether the money has started to process since I had read some horror stories online regarding Lufthansa refunds. (people who waited several months). An agent picks up, telling me some error has occured? and puts me on hold. Comes back with some excuse and says she has put this on a rush for me. You will get your money in maximum 3-4 days.
I wait 6 working days and calls back March 10. At this point I am really frustrated that no money has arrived in my account and I get to speak with an agent called Shelly. She seems really nice and puts me on hold for over 40 minutes and comes back to me with a long explanation what has happened.
She tells me the first agent who answered my very first call in February made a mistake, since she cancelled my flight even though the Lufthansa waiver window for Corona cancellation at that time was only to March 31. I panic and try to say to her, yes but I asked her 5 times. Do I get a full refund?
She keeps on explaining that yes, you will get a full refund but since the waiver window was only to March 31 the first agent filled out a wrong kind of refund? or something like that.
Now your flights is officially cancelled and we need to do a new refund.
But sir, I promise you the money now in 3 to maximum 5 days. We deeply regret the situation and the hassle this has caused you. She was really friendly and this time I believed Lufthansa support since she put me on hold for 40 minutes, it felt like she really cared about the situation and took care of it. She told me to call back on Tuesday (today) if I had no recieved any money.
Well, now it's almost impossible to reach Lufthansa because the corona has escalated so today I did not have a choice but to dispute the orignal transaction with Revolut. Soon it's March 18th and still no money in my account and I have given up. Now I have to hope for Revolut to accept my dispute request.
I sincerely hope you will never have to deal with Lufthansa refunds department ever in your life.
Are they stalling refunds now because of the situation with Corona? Remember that when I started this case the situation in Europe was not even that bad so I don't understand the stalling here. It's so many lies and excuses on top of each other.
I am deeply disappointed with Lufthansa. If the case was started this week or last I would understand because now it's chaotic but 1 month ago it was not so bad in Europe and having to wait over 1 month for a refund in my world is not great. Five stars to F1 who refunded me within 2 days in comparission.
If Lufthansa said from the beginning, like that a refund may take up to 30-60 days or something I would not complain. It's just annoying being told 3-5 days several times (we promise) and then no money comes. It's very frustrating for me.
Andaz
Last time I called Lufthansa, was March 19.
I spoke to a lady, and she promised 100%, basically swore on the bible that the money has already been sent from the Lufthansa bank on March 17th and you will get the money within 48 hours, maximum.
Today it's March 24 and still no money. What a joke this is, even during this situation.
So many lies being told to my face I don't even know what the truth is anymore.
If they had just been honest from the start. Like, this can take up to 60 days sir, please be patient.
But so many lies that the money has been sent, it's on the way. Sigh..
I give up, hope the chargeback/fraud team at Revolut is faster.
Last edited by Andaz; Mar 24, 2020 at 12:11 pm
Apr 18, 2020, 4:46 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
Opened a dispute case, but have to wait 48 days according to Mastercard rules.
I am sure Lufthansa will respond after 47 days and do something that will make me wait another 2 months.
I WILL NEVER IN MY ENTIRE LIFE BOOK ANOTHER LUFTHANSA FLIGHT.
I don't care if it's free, if all other options are 5 times expensive.
Lufthansa are after all lies to me, totally dead. I hope they crash and burn eventually. (Not the planes, but the company)
For all other flight bookings I had, I now give them maximum 7 days. I don't care what they say.
Then after 7 days I open a dispute case with my credit card company instead, goes way quicker.
I recommend everyone to do this. Best case scenario is that you get money from your CC company, then when airlines get the thumbs out of their thieving a*es you might get a refund from the as well. It happened to me once, AA didn't refund for 1 month, applied for a dispute. Got money from CC company, then 3 months later I got money from AA again. Never heard again from anyone so thanks for that money.
Next recommendation is: Use American Express, the chargeback there is way faster than Visa (30 days) and MC (48 days).
I have learned my lesson now. Will only use Amex for large transactions.
Gosh, my heart is going to kill me. I have lost so many years mentally because of LH now.
Sadly I have more tickets in First Class booked with LH. Hope Covid-19 is around for another 5-6 months so I don't have to fly LH First anymore. I don't even want to.
Last edited by Andaz; Apr 18, 2020 at 5:06 pm
Apr 19, 2020, 7:22 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
I am going to do the exact same thing now if LH refunds me after several months, no way I will mention it to the CC company.
I don't expect to get double, but after all this I have lost several years of my mental health and for that I deserve X5 the original refund.
If they would have contacted me, sure I would have paid the money back but I am not going to highlight it and do their job.
But don't be a moral guy. If the girl/guy at the register didn't scan one of your items when shopping, would you let she or he know about it if you saw it or just 'walk away acting like nothing'? I know what 90-95% of the people would have done.
People are always like that. Complaining about other peoples morals, and themselves are never doing anything bad.
Actually, the ones complaining about other peoples morals are usually the worst, with corruption and bad morals.
I am not going to act like I am Jesus, because I am not.
It's like these old guys who travels to Asia to buy boys and girls.. at home they are the sweet guy, working at a company with a nice suit and all, having a wife and beautiful children.
Then in Asia it's a different story being there for "conference". Seen it myself. It happens. Yuck.
Or the people working at FIFA, or all the other corrupt companies in the world. Corruption, bad morals. Everywhere.
They all have bad morals until they get caught, then they blame someone else for the "mistake".
And don't get me started on the politicians. The absolute worst of the worst.
This world sadly often rewards idiotic people, but then again. Maybe they are the smart people and all other who make them famous are the dumb people, Idk.
Anyway, I'm out. Just wanted to share that I have waited since mid-feb for a refund and don't expect to get it anytime soon.
Have a nice day y'all.
Last edited by Andaz; Apr 19, 2020 at 7:46 am
Apr 19, 2020, 3:41 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
Sorry. I do it. So I can regard myself as the 5% morally correct people.
On the other side I do not understand why you complain that LH is not reimbursing you the money, they owe you. LH just behaves as you do. You and LH are just part of the 95% of morally incorrect people/companies.
On the other side I do not understand why you complain that LH is not reimbursing you the money, they owe you. LH just behaves as you do. You and LH are just part of the 95% of morally incorrect people/companies.
"Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones."
So therefore I should maybe go out on Ebay, sell my Macbook for 2.000€ and never ship it to the buyer.
Then after 2-3 months I will refund the buyer. Should be completely legal, right?
I will just blame Covid-19 that I couldn't send the Macbook.
And congratulations Mr Perfect. I assume you never drove over the speed limit as well, you never did anything morally bad? Yeah, keep telling yourself that lie.
Anyway, I have no interest in fighting with you. You best know yourself and your morals.
Everyone lives there own lives and takes the consequences.
Still, Lufthansa should not steal peoples money "to survive". The money issue is their problem.
Not the travelers problem.
Apr 19, 2020, 5:17 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
Furthermore breaking the speed limit vs. intentionally keeping money that doesn't belong to you is hardly comparable. (legal ethics 101)
We're not here to belittle or lecture you or your ethics, however, I hope that you take the several comments you got regarding said action as constructive criticism that might lead you to reconsider your stance.
(Regarding restaurants I always mention if their is anything wrong with the bill, good or bad.)
I might not be the most honest person, and taking advantages of small mistakes here and there (airline and hotel mistake rates for example, like many people here on FT love to take advantage of. That's morally wrong since many times it's a human error but so many people still do it) but having been used and taken advantage of my whole life, that's maybe the person I have become.
Being the nice guy and putting everyone before myself hasn't taken me anywhere in over 30 years. Sadly.
Everywhere I see people behaving bad and getting away with it. All the time.
Whether it's taking advantage of a drunk girl at a party, streaming casino with fake money = get viewers = get rich, driving insanely fast (and getting away with it, meanwhile I get caught while speeding like 2/mph on the highway.) I assume some people are just born lucky. All the bad people seem to end up successful. Truly annoying.
After being scammed several times, tricked, abused, fooled and god what else over the years. I basically don't care anymore.
Maybe I should live like everyone (almost) in the world where the motto seem to be: Don't give a **** about anything but yourself..
Even so, I just want my money. If I get both money from CC and LH, I most likely will pretend I didn't see transaction number two but If they ask me about it later on, sure I will pay it back but my anger with Lufthansa is basically at level 100 out of 100 now. And that's not the waiting time. It's all the lies. All the phone calls I had to do, time spent and all the promises I got that I would get the money within a week. Imagine being told that you will have the money within 7 days like 5-6 times. Fun? Hardly.
I prob won't comment more on this topic now.
I respect everyone and wish you a great day. Bye!
(English is not my native language so my vocabulary is not comparable to you guys but I am trying my best to make myself understandable.)
Last edited by Andaz; Apr 19, 2020 at 5:43 pm
May 2, 2020, 3:27 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
May 12 I have waited 48 days since my chargeback case started with Mastercard.
Hopefully I will have money then, over 2.5k euros Lufthansa decided to steal from me.
I cancelled my booking Mid-February so almost 3 months ago and Lufthansa has told me many times the money has already been sent from their bank.
Sir, your money HAS LEFT THE LUFTHANSA BANK. IT'S ON THE WAY!
And when I called them few days they said they don't do refunds anymore.
But they said the money was sent 1 month ago? Now they suddenly are not sent? How funny.
Being told money has already left their bank five times -> Now they haven't. They don't do refunds.
I can deal with the waiting, It's not really that.
What I have a problem with is Lufthansa and their lies.
If they would have been honest I could have raised a dispute already after a week, instead of giving them almost a month before contacting my bank.
Hope they are happy losing a Revenue F passenger. Never Lufthansa, never ever again. Lying is one of the worst things I know.
So for your guys and girls that writes that you cancelled a flight in March/April and still no refund.
No wonder since I have not even got my refund from Mid-February while the situation wasn't even that bad.
So just forget about the money and initiate a credit card dispute now if you want to see your money again..
Hopefully I will have money then, over 2.5k euros Lufthansa decided to steal from me.
I cancelled my booking Mid-February so almost 3 months ago and Lufthansa has told me many times the money has already been sent from their bank.
Sir, your money HAS LEFT THE LUFTHANSA BANK. IT'S ON THE WAY!
And when I called them few days they said they don't do refunds anymore.
But they said the money was sent 1 month ago? Now they suddenly are not sent? How funny.
Being told money has already left their bank five times -> Now they haven't. They don't do refunds.
I can deal with the waiting, It's not really that.
What I have a problem with is Lufthansa and their lies.
If they would have been honest I could have raised a dispute already after a week, instead of giving them almost a month before contacting my bank.
Hope they are happy losing a Revenue F passenger. Never Lufthansa, never ever again. Lying is one of the worst things I know.
So for your guys and girls that writes that you cancelled a flight in March/April and still no refund.
No wonder since I have not even got my refund from Mid-February while the situation wasn't even that bad.
So just forget about the money and initiate a credit card dispute now if you want to see your money again..
Last edited by Andaz; May 2, 2020 at 3:58 pm
May 2, 2020, 3:45 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
A question.
I have a First Class Ticket to Argentina in October, however restricted. Not flexible a tiny bit.
What are my options to get a full refund? Because I don't wanna fly Lufthansa no more.
1. Hope Argentina is closed for visitors? Or Ukraine? (The travel starts in Ukraine)
2. Hope LH change/cancel the route?
3. Schedule change?
What about this scenario?
Let's say I live in country X and my travel starts in Ukraine. Ukraine does not allow people to enter the country from country X.
That's my problem? so the ticket will be thrown in the toilet? Unlikely it will happen though.
I have a First Class Ticket to Argentina in October, however restricted. Not flexible a tiny bit.
What are my options to get a full refund? Because I don't wanna fly Lufthansa no more.
1. Hope Argentina is closed for visitors? Or Ukraine? (The travel starts in Ukraine)
2. Hope LH change/cancel the route?
3. Schedule change?
What about this scenario?
Let's say I live in country X and my travel starts in Ukraine. Ukraine does not allow people to enter the country from country X.
That's my problem? so the ticket will be thrown in the toilet? Unlikely it will happen though.
Last edited by Andaz; May 2, 2020 at 3:51 pm
May 2, 2020, 5:23 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
Argentina announced no scheduled commercial flights allowed until September. Lufthansa is no longer selling seats before then, and has zeroed capacity in all fare classes - but crucially not cancelled the flights. Who knows if the flight ban will be extended, or shortened. If it IS extended through October, you'll be fine; a voucher will be on its way to you sometime in 2021 
If Ukraine is shut down, then Lufthansa will not be operating to Kiev, so your trip will be cancelled and you will be off the hook: voucher-time again.
But if there's no cancellation, the first-basic fare is unforgiving: no refund if you simply decide not to fly.
There is something in some A fare rules that allow a refund if you are refused a visa: this could cover you if you are non grata due to COVID restrictions covering your home country or your recent travel.
If Ukraine is shut down, then Lufthansa will not be operating to Kiev, so your trip will be cancelled and you will be off the hook: voucher-time again.
But if there's no cancellation, the first-basic fare is unforgiving: no refund if you simply decide not to fly.
There is something in some A fare rules that allow a refund if you are refused a visa: this could cover you if you are non grata due to COVID restrictions covering your home country or your recent travel.
Not interested in a voucher, rather go dispute road.
Just hope EU doesn't go quick with the voucher idea "everyone" wants to put into place.. (so insanely bad for customers)
I didn't accept my money to become a worthless voucher in case of "problems". They can probably do it for upcoming bookings but doing it retroactively can't be legal?
So Lufthansa has not cancelled the flights f.e FRA-EZE August 13? Even though they wont fly obviously.
So if, lets call him Frank has a flight to EZE from FRA on August 13. Can't he contact his CC provider and ask for a dispute/chargeback? And just show the statement released by Argentina that no flights will be allowed on his travel date? Even if Lufthansa hasn't cancelled the ticket?
Here is another theoretical scenario.
What would happen if ....
I were to make a dispute for the October trip, just making some things up.
According to the card companies, they will try to reach out to LH (who does not seem to respond to disputes at the moment) So after: 30 days (VISA), 48 days (MC), 7 days (Amex) I will get the money refunded because LH won't respond? Automatically. Case will be considered a win since they prob won't respond in time. This is just hypothetical and should be considered as 'fraud'. Even so, I am pretty curious what would happen if the flights later turn out to actually fly.
Will the money be drawn from my account again?
Last edited by Andaz; May 2, 2020 at 5:34 pm
May 2, 2020, 5:55 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
I am not doing it. I just wonder what would happen in the long run. Like, for a PS Pro it's not very hard to make solid "evidence".
Anyway, that's not the way we are going here. We shall not sink to the level of Lufthansa German Airlines.
May 11, 2020, 9:16 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Hyatt
Posts: 75
[SCANDAL] Lufthansa do not refund and reject CC chargeback!
This deserves an own thread in my opinion! Very important information!
This is important information for all the people waiting for Lufthansa money and has been doing so for a long time!
You might not get your money even if you do a CC chargeback. Well, for you whom used Amex or another good CC company, you are probably safe but Mastercard users, take note of some important things here.
Flights booked:
KBP
MUC
2545 J 17-Apr-20
MUC
PVG A 17-Apr-20
PVG
MUC
0727 A 20-Apr-20
MUC
KBP
2544 J 21-Apr-20
Non refundable (cheap A fare) but was allowed to cancel for a full refund due to the situation in Shanghai.
Steps: (shortened so you don't have to read that much).
1. February 17 - I call Lufthansa, ask for a full refund for my trip to China. Agent confirms multiple times. You will get a full refund within 7-10 days maximum.
2. February 26 - I call to check if the refund has been processed. It has not. The last agent 'forgot' to send the file or something? This agent says it's now corrected and in queue for a refund.
3. March 2 - I call to just check if they have started the process of the refund. No, it has been some other 'error' in the system. She excuses and put this refund on a RUSH for me. I will have the money within 3-4 days she says.
4. March 10 - Still no money in my account, another long explanation and excuse coming my way. Now I am being told, wait 3-5 days and you will have the money.
5. March 18 - Still no money and Covid-19 has escalated now in Europe as well. Almost impossible to reach LH at this time. I make a decision to open a dispute with Revolut and they accept it. I must now wait 48 days for Lufthansa to respond to the disputed transaction.
(I called Lufthansa more times but these are the ones I remember)
6. I let this go, and the next time I contact Lufthansa is like the end of April so well over a month later.
The other day an agent says the money has been sent. The next day an other agent tells me I can basically look in the stars for my money.
The last call I made to Lufthansa was I think May 5 or something like that because I called in another matter. So I tried for some information regarding my refund.
He insisted 5 times, Sir you have gotten your refund. No, I said. He said again. Sir, you have gotten your refund. No I say again. Believe me, I can see my bank account.
He puts me on hold, goes away, comes back and says I must wait another 7 days and you will 'probably have it'.
7. May 11. I contact Revolut to check on the dispute and Lufthansa has rejected the dispute by this reason, I quote:
"After a careful evaluation of your case, we won't be treating it as valid as per mastercard rules and won´t proceed with the reimbursement. The merchant rejected our claim as they showed they "had the right to deny boarding to you as you would not have been able to enter the country at your destination due to travel restrictions currently effective in China." As you agreed to their terms and conditions, "due to article 7.1.1 and 7.1.7 Lufthansa may refuse to carry or continue to carry the passenger in order to prevent any violation of applicable laws of any state to be blown to". If you wish you dispute this matter further, please consult the merchant from now on".
So, now I am stuck and I am not sure I follow why Lufthansa denied my request. I simply want my money since the flight was cancelled (or free to cancel because of the situation.)
Lufthansa only lie to me when I call them. Tells me the money has been sent, the next day it hasn't been sent and so on.
They still deny my CC chargeback with the above rules? which I don't understand since I cancelled for a full refund.
So what to do? Revolut say I should contact Lufthansa but that is just pointless as you can read from above. Nothing ever happens.
Sue Lufthansa? How? Not familiar with the process at all.
Any final advice to me before I kill myself because of all the mental pain Lufthansa has caused me? I just feel done.
Wasted so much time and energy on this and now they denied my CC chargeback after waiting 48 days.
This is important information for all the people waiting for Lufthansa money and has been doing so for a long time!
You might not get your money even if you do a CC chargeback. Well, for you whom used Amex or another good CC company, you are probably safe but Mastercard users, take note of some important things here.
Flights booked:
KBP
MUC
2545 J 17-Apr-20
MUC
PVG A 17-Apr-20
PVG
MUC
0727 A 20-Apr-20
MUC
KBP
2544 J 21-Apr-20
Non refundable (cheap A fare) but was allowed to cancel for a full refund due to the situation in Shanghai.
Steps: (shortened so you don't have to read that much).
1. February 17 - I call Lufthansa, ask for a full refund for my trip to China. Agent confirms multiple times. You will get a full refund within 7-10 days maximum.
2. February 26 - I call to check if the refund has been processed. It has not. The last agent 'forgot' to send the file or something? This agent says it's now corrected and in queue for a refund.
3. March 2 - I call to just check if they have started the process of the refund. No, it has been some other 'error' in the system. She excuses and put this refund on a RUSH for me. I will have the money within 3-4 days she says.
4. March 10 - Still no money in my account, another long explanation and excuse coming my way. Now I am being told, wait 3-5 days and you will have the money.
5. March 18 - Still no money and Covid-19 has escalated now in Europe as well. Almost impossible to reach LH at this time. I make a decision to open a dispute with Revolut and they accept it. I must now wait 48 days for Lufthansa to respond to the disputed transaction.
(I called Lufthansa more times but these are the ones I remember)
6. I let this go, and the next time I contact Lufthansa is like the end of April so well over a month later.
The other day an agent says the money has been sent. The next day an other agent tells me I can basically look in the stars for my money.
The last call I made to Lufthansa was I think May 5 or something like that because I called in another matter. So I tried for some information regarding my refund.
He insisted 5 times, Sir you have gotten your refund. No, I said. He said again. Sir, you have gotten your refund. No I say again. Believe me, I can see my bank account.
He puts me on hold, goes away, comes back and says I must wait another 7 days and you will 'probably have it'.
7. May 11. I contact Revolut to check on the dispute and Lufthansa has rejected the dispute by this reason, I quote:
"After a careful evaluation of your case, we won't be treating it as valid as per mastercard rules and won´t proceed with the reimbursement. The merchant rejected our claim as they showed they "had the right to deny boarding to you as you would not have been able to enter the country at your destination due to travel restrictions currently effective in China." As you agreed to their terms and conditions, "due to article 7.1.1 and 7.1.7 Lufthansa may refuse to carry or continue to carry the passenger in order to prevent any violation of applicable laws of any state to be blown to". If you wish you dispute this matter further, please consult the merchant from now on".
So, now I am stuck and I am not sure I follow why Lufthansa denied my request. I simply want my money since the flight was cancelled (or free to cancel because of the situation.)
Lufthansa only lie to me when I call them. Tells me the money has been sent, the next day it hasn't been sent and so on.
They still deny my CC chargeback with the above rules? which I don't understand since I cancelled for a full refund.
So what to do? Revolut say I should contact Lufthansa but that is just pointless as you can read from above. Nothing ever happens.
Sue Lufthansa? How? Not familiar with the process at all.
Any final advice to me before I kill myself because of all the mental pain Lufthansa has caused me? I just feel done.
Wasted so much time and energy on this and now they denied my CC chargeback after waiting 48 days.
Last edited by Andaz; May 11, 2020 at 9:48 am
May 11, 2020, 9:23 am
#14
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
So many words and so little information...
Were you allowed to enter China at the time? Did the flight operate? When did you buy the ticket? Was it a refundable fare? If the flight operated and you cancelled as you were unable to enter China, how is that LH's fault? Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly.
Any reason why this could not have gone in the main thread on this topic?
Were you allowed to enter China at the time? Did the flight operate? When did you buy the ticket? Was it a refundable fare? If the flight operated and you cancelled as you were unable to enter China, how is that LH's fault? Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly.
Any reason why this could not have gone in the main thread on this topic?
May 11, 2020, 9:23 am
#15
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,404
Was your flight cancelled or did it operate as scheduled? Were you starting from FRA (or MUC if there's a nonstop to China) or elsewhere? I assume EC261 applies, but it might help to know details. Also, did you have a RT or OW ticket? Can we assume that your fare rules say that it's nonrefundable? And have you checked the LH CoC (now and at the time the ticket was purchased/cancelled) to see what it actually says about the case where a passenger would be denied entry due to COVID-19 rules. Also, your OP seems to suggest (but doesn't actually state) that you cancelled in advance, but LH says you no showed: which is correct?