Ticket Refund Timeline

Old Apr 9, 20, 3:34 pm
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Ticket Refund Timeline

Anyone have some recent experience on refund timelines?
I have a refundable ticket that was cancelled on 6 March. Still haven't seen a refund. I know busy times, but I think 6 March was even before it got so bad.
Thanks for any feedback!
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Old Apr 9, 20, 11:35 pm
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Looks like whole LH group is refusing to refund for the time being. We are having the same issue with LX

Covid19: Swiss refunds after cancellation

Go for a credit card chargeback
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Old Apr 10, 20, 5:12 am
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Originally Posted by citricut View Post
Looks like whole LH group is refusing to refund for the time being. We are having the same issue with LX
Does this include OS? I requested a refund for a canceled flight two weeks ago and haven't gotten anything.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 5:35 am
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Originally Posted by dcmike View Post
Does this include OS? I requested a refund for a canceled flight two weeks ago and haven't gotten anything.
I would say so, looks like itís a group-wide policy. Iíd recommend chargeback or youíll be waiting until end of year for a cash refund... provided company still exists by then.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 5:37 am
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What would you as a CEO do if you are bleeding 1m EUR per hour (as per C. Spohr) and don't know how long the situation will prevail ?
Avoid any cash payout whatsoever that is not absolutely necessary.

And that's what happens...
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Old Apr 10, 20, 5:54 am
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
What would you as a CEO do if you are bleeding 1m EUR per hour (as per C. Spohr) and don't know how long the situation will prevail ?
Dodging legal obligations and stealing customer money would not be on my list.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 6:31 am
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Originally Posted by TBD View Post
Anyone have some recent experience on refund timelines?
I have a refundable ticket that was cancelled on 6 March. Still haven't seen a refund. I know busy times, but I think 6 March was even before it got so bad.
Thanks for any feedback!
chargeback. And alerting the German regulators as well. For a refundable ticket there is no excuse whatsoever for this.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 6:34 am
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Originally Posted by dcmike View Post
Does this include OS? I requested a refund for a canceled flight two weeks ago and haven't gotten anything.
Same here, was told early March that the refund request was sent, but so far I haven't seen anything. News reports say that German regulators might actually be ok with vouchers instead of cash.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 7:54 am
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I booked 2 tickets to AKL mid March and cancelled within the 24hrs and got the refund within 10/12 days.

A few days after, the airline cancelled three tickets(bookings made in Jan/Feb) and l asked the reimbursement, but so far no news.
When should I consider starting a charge back from the credit card company?
I donít mind waiting another 3/4 weeks but would not like having to wait until December or so.

Thanks,
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Old Apr 10, 20, 8:41 am
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
What would you as a CEO do if you are bleeding 1m EUR per hour (as per C. Spohr) and don't know how long the situation will prevail ?
Avoid any cash payout whatsoever that is not absolutely necessary.

And that's what happens...
I would tap those credit facilities that the airlines have, or turn to the shareholders or the government, but I would not steal other people's money.

And, what should you, as a passenger, do if you paid money for the service that you did not receive and you are forced to accept a voucher you have no use for because you have no plans to travel with this airline again? Many many trips were planned as a one-off. I am sure many restaurants, bars, cinemas, theatres etc. would love to be in the lucky position that the airlines found themselves in because they took our money in advance. Those other businesses also want to stay afloat and pay their staff, and yet they are forced to survive resorting to other measures. Some passengers may have lost their jobs or have been furloughed and would want to get their money back to get by. It sucks for everyone now, but the money belongs to the passenger. No tearful story will change that fact. Passengers should not try to 'understand' the situation the airlines are in. Many other businesses are in the same situation but without the free loans that we have given to the airlines.
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Last edited by Andriyko; Apr 10, 20 at 10:26 am
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Old Apr 10, 20, 9:16 am
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OP actually held a refundable ticket. Thus, the entire Covid-19 situation is even less relevant. He may cancel for any reason or no reason at all and LH sold him a ticket on that basis.

Bottom line is that a refund should be initiated in 7 days. OP cancelled on 6 March and there is no reason for him not to have initiated a chargeback on the 8th day, e.g. 14 March. Almost a month later now.

Anyone due a refund who does not receive one ought to initiate a chargeback on the first day after it was due and has either not been paid or has been declined.

Consumers are not credit facilities and many need that cash as well.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 9:24 am
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
What would you as a CEO do if you are bleeding 1m EUR per hour (as per C. Spohr) and don't know how long the situation will prevail ?
Avoid any cash payout whatsoever that is not absolutely necessary.
I would argue this is a short sighted view. I have had several tickets canceled due to the crisis. Some airlines, like BA, processed my refund when I called in and the credit showed up within a week. Others, like OS, told me to fill out a web form and I still haven't seen a credit.

Sure you want to survive, but if you do survive you need customers. Treating them badly isn't going to make them want to fly you again.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 9:51 am
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This is not a question of customer service, but of following the rule of law and of risk allocation.

Many carriers are offering vouchers in place of refunds, but at a substantial premium, e.g. 20% or more. If a passenger wants that and is willing to give up his use of the cash in return for the premium, that is a win-win. However, the bottom line is that by contract, EC 261/2004 and US DOT rules (if a flight to or from the US) a refund is due if the carrier cancels the flight.

Refunds should be processed within 7 business days and if one has not heard back in that time (or has been denied), moving to a chargeback on the 8th day is simply prudent.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 10:41 am
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Originally Posted by TBD View Post
Dodging legal obligations and stealing customer money would not be on my list.
Originally Posted by Andriyko View Post
I would tap those credit facilities that the airlines have, or turn to the shareholders or the government, but I would not steal other people's money.

And, what should you, as a passenger, do if you paid money for the service that you did not receive and you are forced to accept a voucher you have no use for because you have no plans to travel with this airline again? Many many trips were planned as a one-off. I am sure many restaurants, bars, cinemas, theatres etc. would love to be in the lucky position that the airlines found themselves in because they took our money in advance. Those other businesses also want to stay afloat and pay their staff, and yet they are forced to survive resorting to other measures. Some passengers may have lost their jobs or have been furloughed and would want to get their money back to get by. It sucks for everyone now, but the money belongs to the passenger. No tearful story will change that fact. Passengers should not try to 'understand' the situation the airlines are in. Many other businesses are in the same situation but without the free loans that we have given to the airlines.
Originally Posted by dcmike View Post
I would argue this is a short sighted view. I have had several tickets canceled due to the crisis. Some airlines, like BA, processed my refund when I called in and the credit showed up within a week. Others, like OS, told me to fill out a web form and I still haven't seen a credit.

Sure you want to survive, but if you do survive you need customers. Treating them badly isn't going to make them want to fly you again.
Look - I agree with all of you and am equally appalled by this behaviour (which is also applied by other European airlines !).
I just try to look on the other side. There was a chart which said that LH has about 23 days of cash on hand, and this extends to about 100 days if you include the money for future tickets. However, as per C. Spohr's message, he doesn't expect that this starts up vertically again once the lockdown is over. So the cash flow situation will still be strained - especially if you consider that there is no cash coming in if people switch their flights they had already paid - but the expense will be there. He needs to support the x months of lockdown (no revenue, just expense), and then have a cash flow negative period (since cash came in already, but expense for flying will come in), before cash flow could become positive again. Always remember: even a profitable business can become insolvent if you don't manage cash flow.

Credit lines ok, state aid ok, but all depends on negotiation - i.e. takes time and is uncertain. So he prioritizes liquidity over customer impact currently. Same as the politicians priroritize health over economic impact currently.
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Old Apr 10, 20, 11:10 am
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
What would you as a CEO do if you are bleeding 1m EUR per hour (as per C. Spohr) and don't know how long the situation will prevail ?
Avoid any cash payout whatsoever that is not absolutely necessary.

And that's what happens...
As a smart CEO I would expect you to think of your customers and the current situation and have a strategy in place to mitigate such risks. Companies can be bailed out by governments, but who is going to bail out your customer who may have lost his job?
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