Covid19: LH and Credit Card - Disputes/Chargebacks
Aug 24, 2020, 6:24 am
#122
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: GIB BCN LUX MLA GOT LCA ATH
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From my own experience, they stopped defending chargebacks. I did a chargeback in conjunction with a fully unused ticket that Helga nevertheless just wanted to refund taxes on , and then generiously told me that the taxes were less than the "unused coupons" (to bear in mind I had used none) so as a goodwill gesture they would not charge me and just offset. Today my chargeback money was credited (32 days after chargeback... since this was VISA it means that Lufthansa did not even bother responding to the chargeback).
Sep 2, 2020, 3:34 am
#125
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For chargebacks, AMEX is the best and often sides with the purchaser
If you are reading the reports here on FT, you get the impression that Amex usually sides with the merchant.
Sep 2, 2020, 3:43 am
#126
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
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My personal dispute statistic with Amex (therefore irrelevant in terms of significance) is 50% with merchant 50% with me, based on 10 chargebacks this year.
I have recovered in full via MCOL, letter before action and a threatened petition for a winding up order (Lufthansa in the UK) for the 5 declined chargebacks.
Various BS excuses were accepted by Amex as evidence of a valid charge, including “we’re busy so it’s an abuse of the chargeback process”.
I have recovered in full via MCOL, letter before action and a threatened petition for a winding up order (Lufthansa in the UK) for the 5 declined chargebacks.
Various BS excuses were accepted by Amex as evidence of a valid charge, including “we’re busy so it’s an abuse of the chargeback process”.
Sep 2, 2020, 4:12 am
#127
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I believe it is more precise to say that also AMEX has moved from normally siding with the customer to now/in the wake of Covid-19 often to side with the merchant/vendor as AMEX has realised that the huge amount of chargeback requests may lead to merchants going 'belly up' and AMEX to pay for the refund, i.e. AMEX will process/approve chargebacks until it is no longer in the interest of AMEX to do it.
Sep 2, 2020, 6:53 am
#128
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The problem is that Amex is both the issuer and acquirer.
Hence, Amex has to fund the chargeback at all times. There is not another bank involved.
When you then consider that Amex wants to keep a profitable business relationship with the airline (merchant), esp. regarding selling/buying frequent flyer miles, then you understand why Amex is usually siding with the merchant.
Hence, Amex has to fund the chargeback at all times. There is not another bank involved.
When you then consider that Amex wants to keep a profitable business relationship with the airline (merchant), esp. regarding selling/buying frequent flyer miles, then you understand why Amex is usually siding with the merchant.
Sep 2, 2020, 8:23 am
#129
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I'm quite sure that AMEX will pass on the bill to the Merchant - in one way or the other. No way AMEX is paying for chargebacks themselves (then no chargebacks would be accepted at all).
Sep 3, 2020, 2:02 am
#130
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I'm quite sure that AMEX will pass on the bill to the Merchant - in one way or the other. No way AMEX is paying for chargebacks themselves (then no chargebacks would be accepted at all).
In case of an Amex payment, the acquirer is Amex. And we do not know whether Amex has reserved that holdback or not.
Well, of course the acquirer will pass the bill to the merchant (or just debit the merchant account with the chargeback). The problem is what happens if this merchant account is empty or if there is a cozy relationship between acquirer and the merchant.
Sep 3, 2020, 2:53 am
#131
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That are most likely the exact reasons why AMEX has stopped approving these charge backs; most likely the former and the risk that the airlines will go belly up and AMEX would have no merchant/vendor account to debit.
Sep 3, 2020, 3:27 am
#132
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Maybe better to use "might" rather than "usually".
AMEX is a grown-up company fully subscribing to the adoption of a dispute/chargeback policy (albeit of its own design), including an appeals process. If the appeals process is not followed, the Financial Ombudsman Service kicks in. Well, that's in the UK but I'm sure there are similar arbitration schemes elsewhere.
Sep 3, 2020, 3:45 am
#133
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If you subscribe to this notion of conspiracy, then in the UK (and i guess under similar legislation elsewhere) customers using AMEX credit cards have the parallel route of Section 75 (of the Consumer Credit Act) to follow. It's not a voluntary policy adopted by the industry, but has the force of law, and enables claims for consequential loss to be entertained. It holds the cc company and the merchant jointly and individually responsible for irregularities. It's no more difficult to invoke this route than the chargeback one, though being defined in law the circumstances in which it can be employed are specifically defined.
You also have MCOL, which is another well trod path over which AMEX has no control.
Sep 3, 2020, 3:57 am
#134
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I'm just referring to several reports in this and other similar threads that AMEX seems to have stopped approving charge backs for refunds of tickets. I'm sure you will be able to find approved chargebacks also recently.
I have really no interest in the (extreme) remedies available in the UK and the US. For the majority of subscribers to this forum, they are not available.
I have really no interest in the (extreme) remedies available in the UK and the US. For the majority of subscribers to this forum, they are not available.
Sep 3, 2020, 6:31 am
#135
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One more data point from a German law forum:
https://www.123recht.de/forum/reiser...__f578115.html
Passenger books a ticket from AMS to AKL. LX issued the ticket, but the passenger bought the ticket through an OTA (Bravofly, Lastminute.com). Lastminute.com has charged the credit card (Amex).
LX cancelled the first flight and is refusing a cash refund, because the OTA has to initiate the refund process.
The OTA plays the dead man.#
Amex is refusing a chargeback with that excuse:
Basically Amex is telling the passenger to deal directly with Swiss.
https://www.123recht.de/forum/reiser...__f578115.html
Passenger books a ticket from AMS to AKL. LX issued the ticket, but the passenger bought the ticket through an OTA (Bravofly, Lastminute.com). Lastminute.com has charged the credit card (Amex).
LX cancelled the first flight and is refusing a cash refund, because the OTA has to initiate the refund process.
The OTA plays the dead man.#
Amex is refusing a chargeback with that excuse:
….der Akzeptanzpartner hat uns darüber informiert, dass das Unternehmen ausgelagerte Dienstleistungen anbietet. Daher müssen Sie sich direkt an die Firma wenden, die die Dienstleistung anbietet....