Jul 29, 2020, 12:54 am
Last edit by: oliver2002
If any of your flights in the reservation are cancelled or changed significantly, you can change/refund the ticket as per the section 4.1.2 in this document: https://www.lufthansaexperts.com/shared/files/lufthansa/public/mcms/folder_102/folder_3625/file_143775.pdf
If you still want to fly as (re)booked after a schedule change, you need to reconfirm the reservation with a certain number of days as show here: https://www.lufthansaexperts.com/shared/files/lufthansa/public/mcms/folder_102/folder_3625/file_147814.pdf
If you want to change your ticket due to the uncertanty associated with the Covid 19 pandemic, two kinds of waivers are available which are explained here: https://www.lufthansaexperts.com/shared/files/lufthansa/public/mcms/folder_102/folder_3625/file_147655.pdf
Any changes are best done by the agency that booked your ticket. If you booked directly with LH they will handle the rebooking/reissue and/or refunds. This should be done by calling in. Online functionality of LH.com is rather poor.
If you still want to fly as (re)booked after a schedule change, you need to reconfirm the reservation with a certain number of days as show here: https://www.lufthansaexperts.com/shared/files/lufthansa/public/mcms/folder_102/folder_3625/file_147814.pdf
If you want to change your ticket due to the uncertanty associated with the Covid 19 pandemic, two kinds of waivers are available which are explained here: https://www.lufthansaexperts.com/shared/files/lufthansa/public/mcms/folder_102/folder_3625/file_147655.pdf
Any changes are best done by the agency that booked your ticket. If you booked directly with LH they will handle the rebooking/reissue and/or refunds. This should be done by calling in. Online functionality of LH.com is rather poor.
Covid19: LH Group general waiver to rebook flights
Mar 19, 2020, 8:42 am
#167
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,570
I just got off the phone with a LH staffer in Berlin who told me that we can rebook in same compartment without penalty for a "reasonable" time from first operations ex-PL (or any market).
Then I read this press release, which seems to counter it.
Why do they bin the irregularity rules when its cancelled flight? Pax should be able to book, at the very least, to the first 7 days of flights recommencing without a fare adjustment.
Next available flight is EU law and pax wanting to hold onto their tickets and not ask for refund should be applauded by LH for letting them sit with that cash for months and months.
Then I read this press release, which seems to counter it.
Why do they bin the irregularity rules when its cancelled flight? Pax should be able to book, at the very least, to the first 7 days of flights recommencing without a fare adjustment.
Next available flight is EU law and pax wanting to hold onto their tickets and not ask for refund should be applauded by LH for letting them sit with that cash for months and months.
Mar 19, 2020, 8:47 am
#168
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
No way am I letting any airline keep my money for cancellatons at the moment, it's just too risky.
Mar 19, 2020, 9:03 am
#169
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: GVA
Programs: A3 *G, LX *G, AF *S
Posts: 761
The EU has just confirmed that these cancellations would NOT be considered extraordinary circumstances, so no compensation payable. No change to the cancellation rules - if the airline cancels you can get a refund or rebooking, if you cancel it is dependent on the fare conditions.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/IP_20_485
The policy of Aegean is illegal (though maybe in some cases understandable as I'm sure free available cash is very low at the moment).
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/IP_20_485
The policy of Aegean is illegal (though maybe in some cases understandable as I'm sure free available cash is very low at the moment).
They asked me to confirm I accept the voucher.
I wrote back that I have the right for refund if they cancel the flight. Let's see what happens...
Mar 19, 2020, 9:05 am
#170
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,570
To be honest I think it's going to work the other way. They know that once you've locked in the cash by accepting a voucher, they can basically do what they want. The lower fare buckets will disappear and you'll end up paying a lot more. It's clever, because they still have their revenue for flights that didn't fly, but they are also getting people to pay more to compensate for the period when operations are shut down.
No way am I letting any airline keep my money for cancellatons at the moment, it's just too risky.
No way am I letting any airline keep my money for cancellatons at the moment, it's just too risky.
I wonder if LH have had terms imposed on their credit card payments so they're not seeing the cash until pax actually fly.
Mar 19, 2020, 9:26 am
#171
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
I just called, waited all of 6 seconds for an answer, and then with the help of a CapeTowner resolved the issue with a couple of minutes. Cancellation email swiftly followed - though I'd be even happier if it made mention of the magic word refund: but it doesn't.
Mar 19, 2020, 10:33 am
#172
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: 1 thousand
Posts: 2,112
And it's a win to Fabo.sk
I just called, waited all of 6 seconds for an answer, and then with the help of a CapeTowner resolved the issue with a couple of minutes. Cancellation email swiftly followed - though I'd be even happier if it made mention of the magic word refund: but it doesn't.
I just called, waited all of 6 seconds for an answer, and then with the help of a CapeTowner resolved the issue with a couple of minutes. Cancellation email swiftly followed - though I'd be even happier if it made mention of the magic word refund: but it doesn't.
I'm in a similar yet different situation with my UA ticket and LH-operated-but-cancelled flight. If I follow the court case Fabo.sk mentions, I'm pointed to Article 5(3) in EC 261, specifically the last sentence: "Where an operating air carrier which has no contract with the passenger performs obligations under this Regulation, it shall be regarded as doing so on behalf of the person having a contract with that passenger."
In these circumstances my contract is with UA, not LH - so I can still force United to refund under EC261? (I've already contacted Lufthansa, but no reply - and going to United is easier since they have my ticket and money after all.) [I find the legalese in that case hard to parse, just to make it 100% clear for my case: first flight is LH opearted, UA coded. Second flight is UA operated, UA coded, but also departing the EU.]
Ps. thanks for all the amazing knowledge here!
Mar 19, 2020, 12:38 pm
#173
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,188
I'm talking about when the airline cancels the ticket. If they are now saying that it's the airline who decides whether to reimburse or issue a voucher. I know Aegean is already doing that.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32198189-post58.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32198189-post58.html
Last edited by mmff; Mar 19, 2020 at 12:47 pm
Mar 19, 2020, 2:54 pm
#174
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,158
Quick question: did you call Lufthansa for this (or Thai)?
I'm in a similar yet different situation with my UA ticket and LH-operated-but-cancelled flight. If I follow the court case Fabo.sk mentions, I'm pointed to Article 5(3) in EC 261, specifically the last sentence: "Where an operating air carrier which has no contract with the passenger performs obligations under this Regulation, it shall be regarded as doing so on behalf of the person having a contract with that passenger."
In these circumstances my contract is with UA, not LH - so I can still force United to refund under EC261? (I've already contacted Lufthansa, but no reply - and going to United is easier since they have my ticket and money after all.) [I find the legalese in that case hard to parse, just to make it 100% clear for my case: first flight is LH opearted, UA coded. Second flight is UA operated, UA coded, but also departing the EU.]
Ps. thanks for all the amazing knowledge here!
I'm in a similar yet different situation with my UA ticket and LH-operated-but-cancelled flight. If I follow the court case Fabo.sk mentions, I'm pointed to Article 5(3) in EC 261, specifically the last sentence: "Where an operating air carrier which has no contract with the passenger performs obligations under this Regulation, it shall be regarded as doing so on behalf of the person having a contract with that passenger."
In these circumstances my contract is with UA, not LH - so I can still force United to refund under EC261? (I've already contacted Lufthansa, but no reply - and going to United is easier since they have my ticket and money after all.) [I find the legalese in that case hard to parse, just to make it 100% clear for my case: first flight is LH opearted, UA coded. Second flight is UA operated, UA coded, but also departing the EU.]
Ps. thanks for all the amazing knowledge here!
Call United and say that LH has cancelled a segment and that you would like a full refund as per EU regulations. That should do the trick. LH can refund you the money you paid United anyway... UA is well aware of the EU rules and makes clear mention of that on their website: https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly.../eudenied.html
Mar 19, 2020, 3:22 pm
#175
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
I'm in a similar yet different situation with my UA ticket and LH-operated-but-cancelled flight.
However, UA may help you to receive that full refund much quicker.
Mar 19, 2020, 4:22 pm
#176
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Quick question: did you call Lufthansa for this (or Thai)?
I'm in a similar yet different situation with my UA ticket and LH-operated-but-cancelled flight. If I follow the court case Fabo.sk mentions, I'm pointed to Article 5(3) in EC 261, specifically the last sentence: "Where an operating air carrier which has no contract with the passenger performs obligations under this Regulation, it shall be regarded as doing so on behalf of the person having a contract with that passenger."
In these circumstances my contract is with UA, not LH - so I can still force United to refund under EC261? (I've already contacted Lufthansa, but no reply - and going to United is easier since they have my ticket and money after all.) [I find the legalese in that case hard to parse, just to make it 100% clear for my case: first flight is LH opearted, UA coded. Second flight is UA operated, UA coded, but also departing the EU.]
Ps. thanks for all the amazing knowledge here!
I'm in a similar yet different situation with my UA ticket and LH-operated-but-cancelled flight. If I follow the court case Fabo.sk mentions, I'm pointed to Article 5(3) in EC 261, specifically the last sentence: "Where an operating air carrier which has no contract with the passenger performs obligations under this Regulation, it shall be regarded as doing so on behalf of the person having a contract with that passenger."
In these circumstances my contract is with UA, not LH - so I can still force United to refund under EC261? (I've already contacted Lufthansa, but no reply - and going to United is easier since they have my ticket and money after all.) [I find the legalese in that case hard to parse, just to make it 100% clear for my case: first flight is LH opearted, UA coded. Second flight is UA operated, UA coded, but also departing the EU.]
Ps. thanks for all the amazing knowledge here!
Mar 20, 2020, 11:31 am
#178
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In transit TATL
Posts: 230
As of March 20 the rebooking terms on the English-language version of LH's website are somewhat softened and expanded:
If you hold a ticket for a cancelled or an existing Lufthansa Group flight, you can keep the ticket without having to commit to a new flight date right away. Existing bookings will initially be cancelled, but the ticket and ticket value will remain unchanged and can be extended to a new departure date up to and including 31 December 2020. You can also rebook to another destination. The new flight must be booked until 31 August 2020.
In addition we offer you for every rebooked ticket a discount of 50€ on the ticket prize. Of course rebooking fees will still not be charged, regardless of which fare was booked. Should the rebooked fare be more expensive due to a change of destination (e.g. rebooking from short-haul to long-haul), change of class of travel or similar, an additional payment may be necessary despite the discount.
Please note: Rebookings can be done through our Service Center or your travel agent. You do not have to contact us before your original flight date – your ticket will keep its validity even past the original flight date. You will be able to rebook it any time until 31 August 2020. Due to the very high call volume in our Service Center, we currently ask you only to contact us if you are travelling within the next 72hours.
This regulation applies to tickets booked up to and including 31 March 2020 and with a confirmed travel date up to and including 31 December 2020.
I can't figure out how to switch to the German-language version to see how LH states "Should the rebooked fare be more expensive due to a change of destination (e.g. rebooking from short-haul to long-haul), change of class of travel or similar, an additional payment may be necessary despite the discount."
If you hold a ticket for a cancelled or an existing Lufthansa Group flight, you can keep the ticket without having to commit to a new flight date right away. Existing bookings will initially be cancelled, but the ticket and ticket value will remain unchanged and can be extended to a new departure date up to and including 31 December 2020. You can also rebook to another destination. The new flight must be booked until 31 August 2020.
In addition we offer you for every rebooked ticket a discount of 50€ on the ticket prize. Of course rebooking fees will still not be charged, regardless of which fare was booked. Should the rebooked fare be more expensive due to a change of destination (e.g. rebooking from short-haul to long-haul), change of class of travel or similar, an additional payment may be necessary despite the discount.
Please note: Rebookings can be done through our Service Center or your travel agent. You do not have to contact us before your original flight date – your ticket will keep its validity even past the original flight date. You will be able to rebook it any time until 31 August 2020. Due to the very high call volume in our Service Center, we currently ask you only to contact us if you are travelling within the next 72hours.
This regulation applies to tickets booked up to and including 31 March 2020 and with a confirmed travel date up to and including 31 December 2020.
I can't figure out how to switch to the German-language version to see how LH states "Should the rebooked fare be more expensive due to a change of destination (e.g. rebooking from short-haul to long-haul), change of class of travel or similar, an additional payment may be necessary despite the discount."
Mar 20, 2020, 12:07 pm
#179
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
The EU has just confirmed that these cancellations would NOT be considered extraordinary circumstances, so no compensation payable. No change to the cancellation rules - if the airline cancels you can get a refund or rebooking, if you cancel it is dependent on the fare conditions.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/IP_20_485
The policy of Aegean is illegal (though maybe in some cases understandable as I'm sure free available cash is very low at the moment).
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/IP_20_485
The policy of Aegean is illegal (though maybe in some cases understandable as I'm sure free available cash is very low at the moment).
The Commission published on 18 March 2020 interpretative guidelines on how certain provisions of the EU passenger rights legislation should be applied in the context of the COVID-19 outbreak and thereby ensure clarity and legal certainty for all those involved. Passengers can be reassured that their rights are protected. For example, if their journey is cancelled, they can choose between reimbursement or re-routing or travel at a later date. At the same time, the guidelines clarify that the current circumstances are “extraordinary” e.g., compensation may not be given in case of flight cancellation less than two weeks before departure date.
Mar 20, 2020, 3:19 pm
#180
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AMS, JFK/EWR/LGA
Programs: Flying Blue/Platinum, TK/Elite Plus, QR/Platinum, LH/FTL, Marriott/Platinum
Posts: 293
Just confirmed with the LH call center that the fare difference for "different fare" at time of rebooking still applies, even under the new rebooking policy with the 50eur discount. This essentially means even a K class --> K class rebooking could still result in fare difference collection, if the K fare at time of rebooking is higher than your historical K fare.
Once again, I encourage everyone whose LH Group flights are canceled now to request a full refund, unless you can rebook now with a reasonable fare difference. If you leave the ticket open now and rebook later, you (1) lose your rights to a full refund and (2) run the risk of being forced to pay a humongous amount of fare difference when time comes to rebooking. LH Group seems to have already deliberately blocked many lower fare buckets (e.g., K/L/T and in some cases P) months into the future just so they can comfortably penalize customers who are desperate to rebook now when virtually no one is willing/able to travel. I can imagine availability will only get worse when flight operations are back to normal. Yes, LH needs cash right now, but who doesn't? LH has already applied for state aid in several countries and I just cannot comprehend its greed in penalizing customers in this public health crisis.
So get your money back while you still can and save yourself from future loss and stress.
Once again, I encourage everyone whose LH Group flights are canceled now to request a full refund, unless you can rebook now with a reasonable fare difference. If you leave the ticket open now and rebook later, you (1) lose your rights to a full refund and (2) run the risk of being forced to pay a humongous amount of fare difference when time comes to rebooking. LH Group seems to have already deliberately blocked many lower fare buckets (e.g., K/L/T and in some cases P) months into the future just so they can comfortably penalize customers who are desperate to rebook now when virtually no one is willing/able to travel. I can imagine availability will only get worse when flight operations are back to normal. Yes, LH needs cash right now, but who doesn't? LH has already applied for state aid in several countries and I just cannot comprehend its greed in penalizing customers in this public health crisis.
So get your money back while you still can and save yourself from future loss and stress.