flyertalker28120

Why the arrogance? You can't seriously believe you need to fly First or have a positive opinion on First to be able to discuss future F offerings intelligently? If you want to move away from your biased views, I suggest you read this article as a starter:

https://www.economist.com/internatio...-is-in-decline

Oh, and BTW, Emirates--mentioned as an exception in the article--has joined the pack and is now cutting F capacity, too.

Another thing: When looking at the decline in F capacity between 2008-18, one should factor in that the capacity of other classes has risen, i.e., in relative terms, F has declined even more than in absolute terms. Of course, by now we know the trend for F in 2019-20: Further down.

FlyerLX

I think some who wave the F/HON flag are a bit angry just now because the pandemic has provided a moment of truth. In stark contrast to BA, which has kept much more of its premium offering available since March, LH has cut its premium product- particularly on the ground- hugely. The fact that LH has cut premium service to save money, rather than maintain premium service to ensure premium pax loyalty, reminds us that F and HON are less important to LH than F/HON flag wavers thought. Look at LH's model over the past few years- huge expansion, low advance fares and big multiple frequencies, huge build up of MUC hub... In other words, volume, volume, volume. Now that volume has collapsed, they're in a far worse state than IAG or AFKL. And some F/HON flag wavers are now feeling a bit sour because their wishes are no longer being prioritised (witness the almost absurdly endless debate on a certain German forum about bus boarding in FRA...!!!), and because they now see they are less essential to LH's business plan than they imagined.

Jaenks

BA kept their most premium offering available? Seriously? Their F is a premium product? Or F food in boxes which they still keep serving? Only things that are premium in BA is F Wing access and CCR lounge, that is it. LH cut only the hubs car transfers and lounge F&B selection. I would rather spend(and I do) 11+ hours in LH F cabin without car transfer and proper lounge food in FRA/MUC/ZRH than same hours on BA F cabin with limited amount of food served in the box. But I understand those who eat before the night flight in CCR and then just sleep at the plane, helps escape from reality . LH F price are much more competitive than BA F to those places that I need to go.

vantage03

Wow. More nonsense. Quite frankly, from what you write, you just don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’m with @Jaenks above, BA have cut their F product to absolute bare bones. It’s basically a seat, with a heated snack box, with barely any alcohol - served in plastic cups like teenagers use at festivals, at pre-Covid prices.

The *only* area they’re arguably doing better than LH is the LHR First Wing / Lounge, which is a competitor to a FRA SEN Lounge. Everything else they’re doing is junk right now... have you even experienced the Club Europe “catering”? LH’s is the same as pre-Covid. As is the FCL A in Frankfurt. So is their on-board First. I’d know, as I flew it today.

You may stop trolling now.

FlyerLX

OK, so I should have said BA’s F offering on the ground has survived better than LH’s. Still, my wider point was that LH may ditch F going forward, and I have attempted to explain why I think that’s a possibility. I may be wrong, but I am at least adult enough to say so, rather than calling other people’s posts nonsense. I didn’t fly F today - I didn’t need to because I’ve flown F and C on LH and BA a lot. And I’m not trolling you or anybody else, so try to worry less.

FlyerLX

All well and good... It’s true that I was thinking about LH and BA lounge/ground service rather than onboard product and I should have said that. My real point, though, was that LH may prefer to drop F altogether and that, sadly, F may not be as important to LH as it is to some of its most outspoken fans. Others see it differently to me and that’s fine... They may be right. Exchanging views is informative and interesting when done with respect.

NA-Flyer

I think sooner than later F class will disappear from the LH group entire fleet. Loads and the huge drop in traffic due to covid-19 does not allow of justify any more to operate an F cabin.

Probably LH will re-configure its entire 747-8 sub-fleet with J and Y+ and Y only.

They did that in the past with the 747-400 fleet and I am confident will do that also for the 747-8 fleet.

chris63

Well, the end of the pandemic is in sight, thanks to the vaccines

LH J product is sub par & I'm trying to be kind

LH are still maintaining they intend to be a 5* airline, without F that’s not realistic

NYC1

One can only hope on all levels... No F, no LH for me.

chris63

Indeed 🤞

Same for me !

FlyerLX

It would be a sad day.... But for a long time I have been thinking the same thing. Even before the pandemic LH didn’t seem to have much faith in F... All the emphasis was on C. And where would F be installed? Not 77X... 380 and 346 finished... Maybe the second round of 359 if they come, and pre Covid AFAIK they weren’t even due until the middle of this decade...

I could see F continued on LX as a kind of niche product.

airoli

It would seem to me that LH Group's objectives may have somewhat shifted in the last 9 months. In a struggle to remain viable in a macro-economic environment that will be very different from previous plans, maintaining a 5* Skytraxx rating may not make it to the top of the CEO's list....

chris63

Yes. that could be the case, however CS himself has told me they will return all the 5* services provided before & that’s been repeated by my HON PA, time will tell

LXA350

LX is the boutique airline within the group, hence I can only hope that this will continue to be the case and LX will continue to offer First Class on all it's long haul flights. Once the situation will improve and the cash flow situation will allow it LH will really need to think where they want to head going forward.Their current Business Class product is average at best, let's see how good the news seats will be. However their servive / catering offering in C is beyond anything special. Hence, if they should decide to get rid of F they need to develop a concept simmiar as found on QR which really gives you the feeling when flying C that you are in a premium product and it's comore comparable to F, whereas in LH currently it reminds you more of a good Y product (Service / catering).

FlyerLX

On another forum I read that LH have now said the removal of 346 and 380 is permanent. This will leave only 748 with F. The only possible future for F apart from 748 (if they keep the 748 at all) will be: F on 77X if they change their minds, or F on the next wave of 359 and/or 787 (if they still come- they weren’t expected until middle of the decade even before the pandemic...)

I don’t mean to be negative- I have spent many happy hours in LH F- but I think its days really are now numbered...