Nov 12, 2019, 6:52 am
Last edit by: ACflyerDE
The programme will now change from 1 January 2022 (postponed again and it will not start before 2023)
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
New qualifying points system for status from 2024
Nov 23, 2019, 10:53 am
#661
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
I've already said it upthread but on this change i really have to admire M&M, as the result seems to be people overlooking how much more demanding this will be.
Example of the route being discussed (TXL-FRA-LAX). Below the comparison between old and new rules for the same period (2yrs). TXL-FRA-AX is 1 flight for the below comparison - points and miles consider are adjusted to that).
The result is somewhere between 23% and 129% more flights needed for the same SEN status (2yrs)
Example of the route being discussed (TXL-FRA-LAX). Below the comparison between old and new rules for the same period (2yrs). TXL-FRA-AX is 1 flight for the below comparison - points and miles consider are adjusted to that).
The result is somewhere between 23% and 129% more flights needed for the same SEN status (2yrs)
I can't imagine the group impacted negatively by this change is really big - and they still get to keep their soft landing at FTL plus it should be easier to re qualify later.
Nov 23, 2019, 12:23 pm
#662
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,856
The 2 year system was good as it allowed for 1 slower year (ok, maybe a few of us, me included, used to cheat on M&M on the off year), but with a single year and the same amount (or a big chunk of it) needed i seems to me M&M just rolled out a treadmill/hamster wheel to keep everyone with not much upside (for flyers)
Nov 23, 2019, 12:27 pm
#663
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Berlin
Programs: AA EXP, Lifetime Platinum, 2.6M
Posts: 177
Better comparison would be to other FF programs with which it is coming into line without the spend requirement. Thats the big win.
Nov 23, 2019, 1:26 pm
#664
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: oneworld, * Alliance, Marriott Bonvoy, HHonors, WoH
Posts: 2,120
Is it really a significant difference for those who fly intercontinental flights for work anyway? It is gonna be one round-trip per quarter, just continuously, not every second year to maintain Senator.
Nov 23, 2019, 1:49 pm
#665
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
Look at the table above.a C/D/J flyer will have to fly more than today, each year, to maintain status. That's a big ask.
The 2 year system was good as it allowed for 1 slower year (ok, maybe a few of us, me included, used to cheat on M&M on the off year), but with a single year and the same amount (or a big chunk of it) needed i seems to me M&M just rolled out a treadmill/hamster wheel to keep everyone with not much upside (for flyers)
The 2 year system was good as it allowed for 1 slower year (ok, maybe a few of us, me included, used to cheat on M&M on the off year), but with a single year and the same amount (or a big chunk of it) needed i seems to me M&M just rolled out a treadmill/hamster wheel to keep everyone with not much upside (for flyers)
For some it allowed. For some it required extra travel to push over 100k. Not everyone had the time, resources or inclination to go for it.
i have a different opinion. It will be quite negative across the board. Have a look here (i did the comparison Intra-Europe, and a mid-longhaul for all booking classes
Nov 23, 2019, 11:13 pm
#666
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Berlin
Programs: AA EXP, Lifetime Platinum, 2.6M
Posts: 177
I agree, the only people this is bad for is those who put all their dough into another program, and then hustled a little every two years to hold SEN in M&M. Truth of the matter is, on any other acceptable airline it's impossible to get FF highest status by taking 4 Biz flights a year without spending a ton of money. if you plan the sales right you can do this for under 10K easily. Plus, they're rating flying from TXL-MUC-JFK the same as TXL-MUC-LAX. Total win if you're consistently flying every year.
Nov 24, 2019, 12:29 am
#667
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
From my point of view the new system is a win concerning SEN and FTL. Yes, there will be much more of them in the future, but the SEN lounges are full of *G anyway, who get their status by “cheap programs”. A lot of them will change back to M&M. In my company all FTL I’ve talked to so far will qualify for SEN, as 50 rt flights within Germany or Europe belongs to their common flight pattern.
Of course a status validity period for up to 34 months is better. But the up to 26 months is still a lot. And a frequent traveller should be worried about that as he usually has the same flight pattern every year and not every second year.
Of course a status validity period for up to 34 months is better. But the up to 26 months is still a lot. And a frequent traveller should be worried about that as he usually has the same flight pattern every year and not every second year.
Nov 24, 2019, 12:39 am
#668
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 478
Do u mind sharing which non-OW airline flying a Firstclass to Australia would give you BA tier points? Afaik, that needs to be BA-coded to qualify?
And what would relatively cheap in numbers look like? THX.
Nov 24, 2019, 1:40 am
#669
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: oneworld, * Alliance, Marriott Bonvoy, HHonors, WoH
Posts: 2,120
With TK from VNO to US or SA you can achieve it with 2 round-trips(TK Elite) or re-qualify with 1(TK Elite) or 2(TK Elite Plus)with two round-trips and spend less than 3,5k€ total depending the destination(EZE,GRU,SFO) feeder flights included. Re-qualifying to Elite Plus is lot cheaper when using Elite Plus upgrade vouchers(2 per membership year) and booking Q class(cheapest 100% mileage class). Currently a soft landing exists, Elite Plus to Elite which is also Star Alliance Gold.That is suitable when it matches the work/business destination or preferable holiday. Not for many but the option exists.
Nov 24, 2019, 2:36 am
#670
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London, Paris
Programs: LH HON, AF Platinum
Posts: 2,001
From my point of view the new system is a win concerning SEN and FTL. Yes, there will be much more of them in the future, but the SEN lounges are full of *G anyway, who get their status by “cheap programs”. A lot of them will change back to M&M. In my company all FTL I’ve talked to so far will qualify for SEN, as 50 rt flights within Germany or Europe belongs to their common flight pattern.
Of course a status validity period for up to 34 months is better. But the up to 26 months is still a lot. And a frequent traveller should be worried about that as he usually has the same flight pattern every year and not every second year.
Of course a status validity period for up to 34 months is better. But the up to 26 months is still a lot. And a frequent traveller should be worried about that as he usually has the same flight pattern every year and not every second year.
again—people ITT are wondering why there isn’t a revenue portion. There is a revenue portion on award miles accumulation, and I’d wager that giving someone easier access to award tickets is way more expensive than giving that same person access to the SEN lounge and priority boarding and free bags. I’d also wager that it’s way more expensive than giving someone access to the FCL.
this new system actually makes a lot more sense to me personally, even if it will be slightly harder to maintain HON as I routinely book A fares. But if someone wants to “game the system” by doing TLV-ZRH-RAK 20 times a year, I’d say they deserve HON. And in doing so and optimizing for minimal spend, they will have relatively food award miles to show for it and will be quite a bit worse for wear.
as many people have pointed out on this forum — HON is absolutely not worth striving for in itself. HON is meant to make convenient your natural flying patterns. If your natural flying patterns get you automatic HON, great. If they do so only with a slight adjustment, then it’s definitely worth it depending on how slight the adjustment is. But under the new system and old system HON isn’t worth it in itself.
Nov 24, 2019, 3:31 am
#671
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
again—people ITT are wondering why there isn’t a revenue portion. There is a revenue portion on award miles accumulation, and I’d wager that giving someone easier access to award tickets is way more expensive than giving that same person access to the SEN lounge and priority boarding and free bags. I’d also wager that it’s way more expensive than giving someone access to the FCL.
Access to awards is being enhanced - what is left shouldn't be that costly, as regular capacity controls and rev mgmt apply.
Nov 24, 2019, 3:45 am
#672
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
SEN benefits are much cheaper than HON benefits. And it’s the operating carrier, who has to pay for them, not the airline where the passenger has his status from. So LH pays a lot right now for *G benefits of *G of other programs. In the future more of them will get SEN instead of other *G and for that they have to fly M&M integrated members as well - what is different to now. Now you can get the SEN by just flying other airlines than LH group and LH has to pay for that.
The problem with the new HON is the Eco part. All other aspects don’t really matter. I’ve already explained the maths about that.
The problem with the new HON is the Eco part. All other aspects don’t really matter. I’ve already explained the maths about that.
Nov 24, 2019, 4:39 am
#673
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,724
Until very recently, I bought almost all of my tickets on lufthansa.com and flew LH group to the destinations they serve; preferably in F. Got decent award miles until last year and made SEN easily until now. Will be different in the future.
Nov 24, 2019, 4:47 am
#674
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
"only people"? I don't think so!
Until very recently, I bought almost all of my tickets on lufthansa.com and flew LH group to the destinations they serve; preferably in F. Got decent award miles until last year and made SEN easily until now. Will be different in the future.
Until very recently, I bought almost all of my tickets on lufthansa.com and flew LH group to the destinations they serve; preferably in F. Got decent award miles until last year and made SEN easily until now. Will be different in the future.
Nov 24, 2019, 4:54 am
#675
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,724
From my point of view the new system is a win concerning SEN and FTL. Yes, there will be much more of them in the future, but the SEN lounges are full of *G anyway, who get their status by “cheap programs”. A lot of them will change back to M&M. In my company all FTL I’ve talked to so far will qualify for SEN, as 50 rt flights within Germany or Europe belongs to their common flight pattern.
Some, like me, will have to consider to change to another program, maybe even another alliance. My flight pattern (including regular Europe-Australia flights in F) used to work perfectly with M&M, and now they shafted me twice in one go:
1) F got severely devalued.
2) Half of my Europe-Australia segments won't count towards lifetime SEN, the ones on SQ and TG etc., as LH Group doesn't fly to Australia. Would have become lifetime SEN in a bearable number of years under the old system, not anymore.
Concerning the 50rt flights in Germany/Europe: The pressure to reduce short-haul flying has been steadily increasing for a while now; could change dramatically after the next elections in Germany. Have also heard first public voices that criticise LH for incentivising "more flying" right at a time when air travel is one of the foci of the debate on climate change.