Nov 12, 2019, 6:52 am
Last edit by: ACflyerDE
The programme will now change from 1 January 2022 (postponed again and it will not start before 2023)
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
New qualifying points system for status from 2024
Nov 18, 2019, 12:08 pm
#601
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,724
a) The new LH system is great for people either flying on cheap P-Class returns via the LH hubs (40 QP for return) or people flying taking advantage of the cheap intercontinental P-Class offers.
b)As I mentioned - based on my 30 years of FF experience (and this appears to be my post #10000 on this forum) - you need to make the right choice based on your own schedule and budget and you should chose an airline that most likely still exists in several years (I am personally eg not too sure about A3).
b)As I mentioned - based on my 30 years of FF experience (and this appears to be my post #10000 on this forum) - you need to make the right choice based on your own schedule and budget and you should chose an airline that most likely still exists in several years (I am personally eg not too sure about A3).
b) Congratulations on your 10000th post!
(BTW, does A3 even have a LT *G program right now?)
Nov 18, 2019, 12:42 pm
#602
Join Date: Dec 2006
Programs: LH SEN, FB Plat., HH D.
Posts: 5,050
I have had two to three flights to Australia every year, too, and I shared the fun between LH/LX for the first part and CX/QF for the second part of the journey or Emirates as QF codeshare all the way down. Normally travelling in First, this was always sufficient to reach Gold status in both, BA and LH. This will become is bit more complicated on the LH side. On the other end, my cheap P class segments in Europe add more the status than they did in the past, so it should still work and contribute to BA and LH lifetime.
Nov 18, 2019, 2:16 pm
#603
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern Europe
Programs: LH SEN LT , Hilton
Posts: 185
Thks FL , that give us some hope who fall into this category, will see how it pans out towards end of next year. 10k posts is pretty amazing , thks for sharing your knowledge , really have learnt a lot over the years on FT
Nov 18, 2019, 2:26 pm
#604
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bergen - Norway
Programs: EBD , FBG
Posts: 563
If that’s often the case, it seems strange if they’re considering discontinuing parts of it, like the FCT. With the ticket prices in F, I reckon they make a lot of money on full F cabins.
Nov 18, 2019, 2:48 pm
#606
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,724
And, I don't like your language.
Nov 18, 2019, 3:01 pm
#607
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF Lifetime SG, LH HON, OZ Lifetime Diamond +, HH Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 14,373
You are right on the LHR-HKG BA TPs. I forgot to multiply by two, my bad. I would however never ever dream of flying LHR-DOH-HKG in business. This is for me nonsense timewise. LHR-HEL-HKG with 440 TP appears to be the more relaxed choice. I am BA Gold and have been for the last 15 or so years, most of my flights are to Australia and as I mentioned BA gives you on this route the strange opportunity to achieve gold status for six releatively cheap F-Class segments on a non-OW airline and a few cheap flights from my homebase on the continent to the UK.
Nov 18, 2019, 3:14 pm
#608
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bergen - Norway
Programs: EBD , FBG
Posts: 563
Sorry, but you are brainwashed.
Since when are customers supposed to worry about the service providers' bottom line? I want the best product at the lowest possible price. I couldn't care less about LH group's revenue from F. The only instance I care about LH's revenue is when they're on the brink of bankruptcy (in which case I'd have to worry about existing contracts being honored.) But otherwise, I want a given quality at the lowest possible price and I don't give a F how much money LH group is making from me.
Since when are customers supposed to worry about the service providers' bottom line? I want the best product at the lowest possible price. I couldn't care less about LH group's revenue from F. The only instance I care about LH's revenue is when they're on the brink of bankruptcy (in which case I'd have to worry about existing contracts being honored.) But otherwise, I want a given quality at the lowest possible price and I don't give a F how much money LH group is making from me.
No reason to be harsh here buddy
Nov 18, 2019, 7:19 pm
#609
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,638
There is something to be concerned about, if LH decide F doesn’t make commercial sense , then it’s gone & I for one would then HAVE to find an alternative
Nov 18, 2019, 7:28 pm
#610
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,638
It is , IME this year my F flights have mostly gone out 8/8 , so busier than usual, whilst there are good A fares, not from the Hubs or outstations & F fares are eyewatering, plus they need to offer some award space & upgrade availability so we can use our Evouchers although, awards & upgrades are become hard to get even for HON, on my routes it’s hard to see how LH cannot make it pay or at least be able to justify having an F cabin.
Nov 18, 2019, 11:21 pm
#611
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: BRU-ZRH
Programs: LX HON, BA Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium Elite
Posts: 764
I really can't complain. As long as you're doing it short term there is almost always something to be had, even on popular routes like LAX for example. LX is even easier, granted only for SEN/HON.
Nov 19, 2019, 12:26 am
#612
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,638
Those numbers are pretty accurate AFAIK. Initially the program was planned for +/- 2,500 people. But with the later SWISS integration that number was increased to ~3,500-4,000 people. At peak times it was above 7,000 and now is in the planned range (~4,000).
The highest humber of HONs I ever was on a flight to my knowledge was around 2010/2011 with 28 HONs on a Friday SFO-FRA on LH455 (B744). I know that because the SFO station manager told me she was happy she could manage to keep all HONs away from middle seats in Business at least which seemed to be a terrible difficult job on that fully booked flight that day. And I only asked her before why my upgrade with eVouchers to First didn't go through...
The highest humber of HONs I ever was on a flight to my knowledge was around 2010/2011 with 28 HONs on a Friday SFO-FRA on LH455 (B744). I know that because the SFO station manager told me she was happy she could manage to keep all HONs away from middle seats in Business at least which seemed to be a terrible difficult job on that fully booked flight that day. And I only asked her before why my upgrade with eVouchers to First didn't go through...
I have had a few HON heavy flights but never 28, it’s kind of amusing but then HON is only a frequent flyer card, it doesn’t convey anything else, just makes my life a lot easier, since I need to fly anyway.
Nov 19, 2019, 3:00 am
#613
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
Nov 19, 2019, 3:00 am
#614
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
I think they are, someone who’s been HON as long as you, gets to meet a lot of people in the know about those numbers, when your hearing the same ballpark numbers being mentioned by insiders it cannot be far off & for sure I’d go with what I have been told over the last 10 years more than the Press or a Blog.
I have had a few HON heavy flights but never 28, it’s kind of amusing but then HON is only a frequent flyer card, it doesn’t convey anything else, just makes my life a lot easier, since I need to fly anyway.
I have had a few HON heavy flights but never 28, it’s kind of amusing but then HON is only a frequent flyer card, it doesn’t convey anything else, just makes my life a lot easier, since I need to fly anyway.
On the other occasions on TATL flights where I asked or looked on the manifest there were usually between two and six HONs.Rarely just one, never more than six.
Nov 19, 2019, 3:15 am
#615
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
LAX/SFO/SAN/SJC -Europe is a sweet spot for LH with a lot of high yield traffic with lots of IT/Pharma/etc going back and forth.