EW stops flying TXL-LHR [split off from EW routes thread]

Old Sep 1, 19, 6:24 am
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EW stops flying TXL-LHR [split off from EW routes thread]

LHR-TXL which has been reduced to two rotations rather than three is cancelled at the end of the summer timetable handing the route exclusively to BA.

It's a premium heavy route and IMO one that LH should never have handed over to Eurowings in the first place so now it has failed and BA have exclusivity.

No idea what's happening to the LHR slots.
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Old Sep 1, 19, 6:32 am
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BArb will be clapping her hands. I’d imagine Helga looks like she fell into a bath of rouge.

LH have screwed up their backdoor hilariously. I heard pax prefer U2 over Helga and EW.

There’s no way they would run a stand-alone LH metal route from TXL to LHR, like they did to CDG, LCY (has come and gone many times!) in the past. The 733 fleet did the EU hops which were all retired. The EW brand and product is crap, I avoid it. And luckily there is always a way I can avoid it.
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Old Sep 1, 19, 7:18 am
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Not all too familiar with EW vs. BA. But what is the big difference? Two class products both of them, tiny seats both of them ,BoB catering in Y both of them, free catering in J both of them, access to lounge both of them... so what is the difference? And how premium heavy is it really on O&D, which is what EW is all about from TXL. BA carries many transfer pax as well I guess.
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Old Sep 1, 19, 8:02 am
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Originally Posted by hugolover View Post
BArb will be clapping her hands. I’d imagine Helga looks like she fell into a bath of rouge.

LH have screwed up their backdoor hilariously. I heard pax prefer U2 over Helga and EW.

There’s no way they would run a stand-alone LH metal route from TXL to LHR, like they did to CDG, LCY (has come and gone many times!) in the past. The 733 fleet did the EU hops which were all retired. The EW brand and product is crap, I avoid it. And luckily there is always a way I can avoid it.
Years back there were four LH A320s a day operating LHR-TXL. It's a route LH always started from behind on because they were only allowed to operate from TXL after unification and BA or BEA had been there for 40+ years at that point.

What they systematically failed to do was gain codeshares on it from the inbound *A traffic at LHR and so it struggled because TXL is an O & D place only. They also charged more than BA by a significant amount which as the weaker of the two on that particular route was foolish.

It was handed to BD who made a reasonable job of it and when they foolishly handed BD to BA, LH took it over as mainline again and it remained reasonable but was downgraded to 3x daily. It was then part of the wholesale handover to Germanwings and it has gone from bad to worse with them. I tried it a few times but the premium experience isn't and arrival at the D gates at TXL can easily involve a 60 minute wait just to get through immigration.

Anyway now it's gone and so the choice is BA or connect.
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Old Sep 1, 19, 8:17 am
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Originally Posted by lhrpete View Post
LHR-TXL which has been reduced to two rotations rather than three is cancelled at the end of the summer timetable handing the route exclusively to BA.

It's a premium heavy route and IMO one that LH should never have handed over to Eurowings in the first place so now it has failed and BA have exclusivity.

No idea what's happening to the LHR slots.
Wow, on a number of fronts.
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Old Sep 1, 19, 3:56 pm
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Not all too familiar with EW vs. BA. But what is the big difference? Two class products both of them, tiny seats both of them ,BoB catering in Y both of them, free catering in J both of them, access to lounge both of them... so what is the difference? And how premium heavy is it really on O&D, which is what EW is all about from TXL. BA carries many transfer pax as well I guess.
There's actually 3 classes on EW, the lowest being BASIC which includes nothing, not even lounge access (for FTL elites such as myself). Then there is SMART, which includes a tiny bit of catering, seat selection and lounge access (for elites). Then the top class is either BEST or BIZ CLASS, which gives you a free choice from the BoB trolley. I don't fly BA, but I think it is basically two classes, despite the difference in the fare type (checked bags or no check bags, etc).
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Old Sep 1, 19, 11:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Concerto View Post
There's actually 3 classes on EW, the lowest being BASIC which includes nothing, not even lounge access (for FTL elites such as myself). Then there is SMART, which includes a tiny bit of catering, seat selection and lounge access (for elites). Then the top class is either BEST or BIZ CLASS, which gives you a free choice from the BoB trolley. I don't fly BA, but I think it is basically two classes, despite the difference in the fare type (checked bags or no check bags, etc).
OK, so there is a difference in the lower classes.

But to come back to the above statement about this being a premium heavy route. As a premium traveler, whether I fly BA in J or EW in BEST doesn't make much difference, does it? It's not that BA is such a great airline either.
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Old Sep 2, 19, 1:36 am
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To be honest, I think they're both pretty crappy. It's just economy class of 20-25 years ago.
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Old Sep 2, 19, 2:11 am
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If I may inject some stats.

S2019 timetable:
TXL-LHR
BA 8 daily flights
EW 2 daily

TXL-STN
BA 1 weekly flight

TXL-LCY
BA 3 daily during the week, 1 on saturdays, none on sundays

TXL-LGW
U2 3 daily flights

SXF-LTN
U2 2 daily flights

SXF-LGW
U2 2 daily flights

SXF-STN
FR 4 daily, 3 on weekends


What market share if at all did EW really have?

Looking at TXL/SXF traffic to the UK (other than LON there is one weekly flight to BHX on flyBe so lets be generous)




Link to Eurostat

Not much has happened either (OK maybe U2 dragged some traffic from SXF to TXL because of AB going bb).

Yes, maybe its an end of an era for the LH Group but the battle is long lost to BA and U2.
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Old Sep 2, 19, 2:17 am
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Originally Posted by lhrpete View Post
Years back there were four LH A320s a day operating LHR-TXL. It's a route LH always started from behind on because they were only allowed to operate from TXL after unification and BA or BEA had been there for 40+ years at that point.

What they systematically failed to do was gain codeshares on it from the inbound *A traffic at LHR and so it struggled because TXL is an O & D place only. They also charged more than BA by a significant amount which as the weaker of the two on that particular route was foolish.

It was handed to BD who made a reasonable job of it and when they foolishly handed BD to BA, LH took it over as mainline again and it remained reasonable but was downgraded to 3x daily. It was then part of the wholesale handover to Germanwings and it has gone from bad to worse with them. I tried it a few times but the premium experience isn't and arrival at the D gates at TXL can easily involve a 60 minute wait just to get through immigration.

Anyway now it's gone and so the choice is BA or connect.
LHR is not a hub for any *A longhaul carrier, its a pure O&D market. Slots are way to expensive for that. T2 is only around since 2012, before that the *A partners were spread all around the field in T1, T3 and T4.

Bmi was a cash draining black hole. The sale of BD's assets to BA was an end to a desastrous attempt by LH & SAS to get a foothold in the UK.
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Old Sep 2, 19, 3:52 am
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Shame it didn’t work out for LH in a way. I always feel something got really screwed up along the way there. Sure, BD turned into a disaster but I think it was really badly managed.
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Old Sep 2, 19, 4:34 am
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Originally Posted by lhrpete View Post
No idea what's happening to the LHR slots.
One slot was used for a new MUC-LHR flight rotation (LH2486/7).
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Old Sep 2, 19, 4:49 am
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
One slot was used for a new MUC-LHR flight rotation (LH2486/7).
As far as I had heard 1 slot was going to LHR-DEN being year round on UA and the other being used to increase VIE-LHR to 4 daily on OS.
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Old Sep 2, 19, 6:45 am
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
LHR is not a hub for any *A longhaul carrier, its a pure O&D market. Slots are way to expensive for that. T2 is only around since 2012, before that the *A partners were spread all around the field in T1, T3 and T4.

Bmi was a cash draining black hole. The sale of BD's assets to BA was an end to a desastrous attempt by LH & SAS to get a foothold in the UK.
LHR may not be a hub for any one *A carrier but it has a huge volume of transfer traffic and is certainly not just an O&D place. BA carry more transfer traffic than O&D because they market their network, *A can do exactly the same. Until 2012 LHR was a mess with all airlines except BA spread about all over the place though latterly LH and most *A carriers were in T1 including much of the long haul except SQ & TG who remained in T3.

BD was badly managed by LH and had better resources been put in it would have been a huge asset, instead the resources were put into OS which remains a cash draining black hole. LHR would always have been a better bet than VIE. The reality was that LH has too many basket cases around. In the days of British Midland - i.e. before BMI when it had a distinct service offering it was a highly profitable carrier and was very well run. Even in slot terms BD was far more valuable than OS and I suspect that if the clock could be set back things might be different.

I
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Old Sep 2, 19, 9:43 am
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Name me one successful LH acquisition? I can only think of LX? And only because it was debt free and a new firm after the crash and its not exactly basking in glory.

SN-off to the bin.
OS-off to the bin.
BD-in the bin

Projects:

LH Italia-in the bin
Eurowings- off to the bin
Germanwings-in the bin, Andreas Lubitz helped with that.
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