Bankruptcy of Avianca Brasil. What to expect from M&M?
May 15, 2019, 2:00 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 631
Bankruptcy of Avianca Brasil. What to expect from M&M?
Hi everyone,
couple of months ago I booked following 3-regions reward flight for M&M miles: TPE-YVR-YYZ-GRU-IGU. Last sector of this reward is Avianca Brasil flight. Unfortunately, due to (almost) bankruptcy of this carrier, this last flight has just been cancelled. Now, I wonder, what may I expect or demand from M&M?
I've already called Polish service centre in order to talk about any solutions and was informed that:
1) as O6 was the only M&M partner operating on GRU-IGU route, there's no alternative flight which might be offered by M&M,
2) it's not possible that they refund any miles for the cancelled flight, because it was "purchased" within 3-regions reward and not as separate reward.
Do you think, there's any chance to get anything from M&M in such circumstances? Could you please suggest any argumentation, which I could present to M&M, when I contact them again (this time service centre in Germany)?
My point of view is that M&M, as seller of reward flight, should at least in some scope take responsibility that this reward is suitable to use. Therefore, in case a customer can't use this reward (entirely or partially) because of bankruptcy of M&M's partner airline, M&M should offer some kind of compensation, particularly when a customer is forced to organize alternative flight on his/her own.
What I find fare compensation is refund of 12000 miles to my account, which is equal to GRU-IGU reward flight in Y (according to award chart before devaluation). Do you think that they might agree for such solution?
couple of months ago I booked following 3-regions reward flight for M&M miles: TPE-YVR-YYZ-GRU-IGU. Last sector of this reward is Avianca Brasil flight. Unfortunately, due to (almost) bankruptcy of this carrier, this last flight has just been cancelled. Now, I wonder, what may I expect or demand from M&M?
I've already called Polish service centre in order to talk about any solutions and was informed that:
1) as O6 was the only M&M partner operating on GRU-IGU route, there's no alternative flight which might be offered by M&M,
2) it's not possible that they refund any miles for the cancelled flight, because it was "purchased" within 3-regions reward and not as separate reward.
Do you think, there's any chance to get anything from M&M in such circumstances? Could you please suggest any argumentation, which I could present to M&M, when I contact them again (this time service centre in Germany)?
My point of view is that M&M, as seller of reward flight, should at least in some scope take responsibility that this reward is suitable to use. Therefore, in case a customer can't use this reward (entirely or partially) because of bankruptcy of M&M's partner airline, M&M should offer some kind of compensation, particularly when a customer is forced to organize alternative flight on his/her own.
What I find fare compensation is refund of 12000 miles to my account, which is equal to GRU-IGU reward flight in Y (according to award chart before devaluation). Do you think that they might agree for such solution?
May 15, 2019, 2:56 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 631
I asked about such solution (i.e. rebooking to LATAM flight) but an agent told me that it would be possible only in case of cancellation announced shortly before the flight. In my case, O6 flight was booked for September.
By the way, I know a person who planned to fly O6 last Saturday, on exactly the same route. He was completely unaware of O6's financial problems, so came to the airport without any bad expectations. When he noticed that his O6 flight had been canceled, he asked for rebooking and he got ticket for LATAM flight free of charge.
I told this to M&M agent but it didn't change his opinion.
By the way, I know a person who planned to fly O6 last Saturday, on exactly the same route. He was completely unaware of O6's financial problems, so came to the airport without any bad expectations. When he noticed that his O6 flight had been canceled, he asked for rebooking and he got ticket for LATAM flight free of charge.
I told this to M&M agent but it didn't change his opinion.
May 15, 2019, 3:05 am
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,843
The OP has an award ticket and that makes a big difference here. LH M&M is not going to bend over backwards to rebook the OP to IGU. Without any M&M partners available to IGU and no I/X class availability LH is not going to rebook the OP. Basically, the OP is left with 2 choices. Accept to cancel/refund the miles without the usual cancellation fee of 50 EUR/USD or accept that the ticket terminates at GRU rather than IGU, i.e. the OP will have to buy a ticket on his/her own if IGU is still the final destination. Luckily, domestic flights in Brazil are cheap so the costs/loss should not be significant.
There is no refund of miles in a situation like this as the OP didn't pay more miles for the GRU-IGU leg. The miles required for an M&M award ticket TPE-IGU is the same as TPE-GRU; i.e. there is nothing to refund.
There is no refund of miles in a situation like this as the OP didn't pay more miles for the GRU-IGU leg. The miles required for an M&M award ticket TPE-IGU is the same as TPE-GRU; i.e. there is nothing to refund.
May 15, 2019, 3:09 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,843
I asked about such solution (i.e. rebooking to LATAM flight) but an agent told me that it would be possible only in case of cancellation announced shortly before the flight. In my case, O6 flight was booked for September.
By the way, I know a person who planned to fly O6 last Saturday, on exactly the same route. He was completely unaware of O6's financial problems, so came to the airport without any bad expectations. When he noticed that his O6 flight had been canceled, he asked for rebooking and he got ticket for LATAM flight free of charge.
I told this to M&M agent but it didn't change his opinion.
By the way, I know a person who planned to fly O6 last Saturday, on exactly the same route. He was completely unaware of O6's financial problems, so came to the airport without any bad expectations. When he noticed that his O6 flight had been canceled, he asked for rebooking and he got ticket for LATAM flight free of charge.
I told this to M&M agent but it didn't change his opinion.
May 15, 2019, 3:22 am
#6
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
M&M sold you a flight from TPE to IGU. If the last segment is cancelled they have to provide you an alternative. You have to demand to be transported from TPE to IGU.
May 15, 2019, 6:13 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,578
Oh... I can’t login to their website anymore. What do you think will happen to those who still have status with Avianca Brasil?
I don’t have any Star flights this next two weeks to
see if my card is still working.
I was prepared for this. And I was thinking back to the bankruptcy of JK, shutting down of BD, all of which had matches from Star airlines. In the case of JK I think even M&M, BD was A3.
I don’t have any Star flights this next two weeks to
see if my card is still working.
I was prepared for this. And I was thinking back to the bankruptcy of JK, shutting down of BD, all of which had matches from Star airlines. In the case of JK I think even M&M, BD was A3.
May 15, 2019, 6:45 am
#9
Moderator: SAS
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BLL & CPH & ZRH
Programs: LX, SK EBD (*G)
Posts: 3,152
The ticket is TPE to IGU. I probably wouldn't do anyhting and show up at the airport demanding to be flown to IGU, which as per contract they owe you, unless they proactively contact you. I disagree that you have to accept your ticket terminates in GRU. Preassure them to rebook you to IGU and don't accept anything else.
May 15, 2019, 6:48 am
#10
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
May 15, 2019, 6:51 am
#11
Moderator: SAS
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BLL & CPH & ZRH
Programs: LX, SK EBD (*G)
Posts: 3,152
Wouldn't it be the problem of LH or the carrier and not M&M on the day of the travel? And wasn't the routing over FRA in which you surely would find a LH representative?
And certainly there is a LH presence in GRU :P
And certainly there is a LH presence in GRU :P
May 15, 2019, 8:50 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 631
Once again, thanks for replies.
As regards my itinerary, it's part of RTW created on basis of points collected in 4 different programs (QRPC, IBPlus, BAEC and M&M). I have booked several reward flights for these points. First I fly from Europe to SE Asia, then I move to South America (through Canada) then I go back to Europe. In total, I'll have more than a dozen of flights, all in 24 days which are planned quite intensively and precisely. Therefore, I'd like to avoid any major changes as they could force next changes. That's why, I prefer to clean up this situation now, instead of waiting until the time of GRU-IGU flight (or other flight within the same booking).
Now, back to the point... I've just called service centre in Germany, although I think that after choosing English language I was transferred somewhere else. Anyway, after 10 minutes of consulting with supervisor, an agent informed me that they can offer me:
1) refund of taxes for cancelled GRU-IGU flight but without any refund of miles for this sector or
2) cancellation of YYZ-GRU-IGU flight with refund of part of miles and taxes (to be honest, I didn't even hear the exact amount of miles, as I don't accept such solution),
3) cancellation of whole trip with full refund of miles and taxes (which is also out of question).
Well, considering, how low are taxes in Brasil, the first point (in fact the only one, which I might consider) doesn't sound interesting at all. I think, I'll try with service centre in US now...
As regards my itinerary, it's part of RTW created on basis of points collected in 4 different programs (QRPC, IBPlus, BAEC and M&M). I have booked several reward flights for these points. First I fly from Europe to SE Asia, then I move to South America (through Canada) then I go back to Europe. In total, I'll have more than a dozen of flights, all in 24 days which are planned quite intensively and precisely. Therefore, I'd like to avoid any major changes as they could force next changes. That's why, I prefer to clean up this situation now, instead of waiting until the time of GRU-IGU flight (or other flight within the same booking).
Now, back to the point... I've just called service centre in Germany, although I think that after choosing English language I was transferred somewhere else. Anyway, after 10 minutes of consulting with supervisor, an agent informed me that they can offer me:
1) refund of taxes for cancelled GRU-IGU flight but without any refund of miles for this sector or
2) cancellation of YYZ-GRU-IGU flight with refund of part of miles and taxes (to be honest, I didn't even hear the exact amount of miles, as I don't accept such solution),
3) cancellation of whole trip with full refund of miles and taxes (which is also out of question).
Well, considering, how low are taxes in Brasil, the first point (in fact the only one, which I might consider) doesn't sound interesting at all. I think, I'll try with service centre in US now...
May 15, 2019, 9:27 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,843
Rather than wasting a lot of time on this going back and forth, but most likely getting nowhere, did you consider buying the GRU-IGU leg yourself? It is a domestic flight and should be fairly cheap. Did you check the fare?
The taxes for GRU-IGU is almost nothing. I wouldn't jeopardise the award ticket by asking for a partly refund of taxes(some agent could easily screw up and cancel the whole thing).
I agree. En route most likely no one will offer to deal with this cancelled segment (as stated above there is no LH/M&M staff present); you best chance would be when you reach GRU.
The taxes for GRU-IGU is almost nothing. I wouldn't jeopardise the award ticket by asking for a partly refund of taxes(some agent could easily screw up and cancel the whole thing).
I agree. En route most likely no one will offer to deal with this cancelled segment (as stated above there is no LH/M&M staff present); you best chance would be when you reach GRU.
May 15, 2019, 9:39 am
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 631
Yes, you're absolutely right!
Lucky me. I was able to redeem BAEC avios for alternative LA flight on the same route, so I have back up
Well, in fact this LA flight is even more convenient for me than O6 flight, so I think I'll use even if O6 flight is somehow "reactivated" (which is highly unlikely).
Lucky me. I was able to redeem BAEC avios for alternative LA flight on the same route, so I have back up
Well, in fact this LA flight is even more convenient for me than O6 flight, so I think I'll use even if O6 flight is somehow "reactivated" (which is highly unlikely).