MumbaiDan

Yesterday night on LH499 we had a very tricky situation. A passenger that came on inbound LH498 was not admitted into Mexico (F passenger, HON).
The passenger was apparently intoxicated and aggressive and for that reason not permitted into Mexico.
Lufthansa then issued a Boarding Pass for the passenger to return on LH 499 (so the plane he came with). At Boarding the captain decided not to permit the passenger to travel on LH499. The passenger was offloaded and the plane declared in flight and ready for push back.
Authorities now demanded that the passenger would be transported or departure rights for LH499 would be withdrawn and the flight cancelled by the authorities.
The plane was put into park position. Doors opened. Now a two hour discussion between authorities, the captain and LH started.
There was only the option to cancel the flight or to take the passenger. LH decided against the captain to operate the flight with passenger aboard and at the End the captain obliged and operated the flight (but was first suggesting to cancel the flight).
The passenger was seated in 3K on the flight and behaved perfectly. I had a quick chat with the passenger in question and he was calm and full of regret. He did not understand at all why the captain was refusing him on Board. Obviously for him not to be permitted to enter Mexico was a big shock.
On the Ground in Frankfurt LH just treated him like the rest of us. He also missed his connection and was handed a new BP.
Due to a great routing (all the way over Gulf and Atlantic, shortest route, just 9.40hrs real flight time) we landed in FRA with only a good hour delay, 1:20 delay at gate.
What is your opinion, is this delay due to "a higher power" or is it technical? I missed my connection and will be 5.45 hours delayed at my final destination. Am I due compensation?
Also I would be interested in your opinion on the behaviour of the pilot. The pilot was willing to have the flight cancelled with 748 fully loaded de-planed and rescheduled. The passenger was calm at time of Boarding and full of regret. Was the pilot right to risk this huge problem for all the other passengers? Was Lufthansa right to make the decision to force the pilot (thats what the purser hinted towards) to operate the flight?
A bit of a strange situation. I am personally of course glad we flew and pity I missed my connection just about by five minutes. The passenger was calm enough, so I struggle to understand (but maybe there was something I missed/do not know) why the pilot made the decision he made and kept his stance for two hours. I did not feel that there was any big risk for other passengers at any time. I hope LH will do a post mortem of the case and share it with other pilots in the category of "how not to behave in such a situation". But pity I will never know how this story turns out.

Often1

Whether the guy was drunk is another issue. The reality is that both Mexican authorities and the Pilot in Command believed him to be. So not really fruitful to debate the underlying fact.

This creates two competing legal issues. First, Mexico's right to deny entry and to require the carrier which transported the individual into Mexico to transport him out. Second, the Captain's general authority to deny boarding to any person he believes may cause a risk to persons or property. The standoff is that Mexico can hold the aircraft while the Captain may decline to depart.

As with most such issues, the sovereign government wins and LH backed down.

While it is nice that the individual apparently calmed down and behaved, it is a disturbing tradeoff and one wonders what would have happened had he not done so.

hugolover

What a joke for MEX to deny such a pax. A country with its priorities in order and denying pax... a real LOL moment. Helga fed him too much booze I expect. Tea and biccies for her.

If he is inadmissible due to drunk/disorderly he goes to JAIL...not back on a flight. That's how it would work in every country. The doors were open and pax disembarked, so the jurisdiction would be Mexico wouldn't it? Threaten to cancel a flight because Captain refused pax? He is perfectly within his rights to offload the pax and for him to go into some kind of holding or jail. The safety of the aircraft comes first. I presume Mexico is a party to the ICAO?

If a carrier declares an emergency situation and wishes to divert to MEX due to drunk/disorderly pax, they will refuse pax entry and force him back onboard and then refuse take-off permission until they take pax?

Ridiculous.

worldclubber

cas_de

Stupid me would rather expect a well traveled person with HON status sitting in F to know the impact of too much alcohol on his/her body, plus what kind of consequences his/her behavior could trigger. We're not talking about a High School Senior from the US being on a LH flight where he gets his hands on [too much] booze in a legal way...

This was probably a really bad case of DYKWIA...

Nic33

Difficult to assess the situation, but I agree. It is a strange way to ensure the public safety to return a disorderly passenger aboard a plan rather than to keep him in a cell on the ground. But remember that Mexico supports Venezuela.

The passenger got quiet on the return, probably because, after a having been on the booze, we all tend to get sleepy.

I tend to believe that the Captain had good reasons to refuse the passenger abroad. Captains are trained to take those types of decisions.

arttravel

From an administrative point of view, why jail the passenger when the passenger can just be shipped back to point of origin? The aggressive words may have been enough to deny entry but not enough to go through the hassle of actual arresting the passenger.

And from the standpoint of the pilot, a passenger who is intoxicated enough misbehave at immigration and be denied entry is a passenger whose judgment is impaired and may continue with the bad behavior on the plane.

The passenger sounds lacking self awareness if wondering why the captain did not want him on the plane.

What a mess.

thbe

Kacee

I can only imagine how obnoxious the passenger must have been to get himself denied entry to Mexico.

aster

Just curious but did they offer him drinks on the return flight?

Kid Flyer

I was thinking the same while reading the post

Also, I am confused why they put him in F... usually the passengers that are not permitted into a country,get a seat in the back of the bus since it is LH that ta<kes the cost....

aster

Also, I assume the pax received a boarding pass for the return journey? Would their be a fare basis code on it?

IAN-UK

A reasonable expectation


But I'm uneasy with the tentative conclusion. Prescription drugs can exacerbate the effect of alcohol.
​​​​​​​And there are reasons, other than intoxication, for an individual to act aggressively.

Viennafly

As a HON, it is not unlikely that he flew on a (paid) flexible F ticket. So after being denied entry into Mexico, he was just rebooked on LH499?! No costs for LH, no downgrade necessary.

chris63