VDB Bait & Switch: The new norm?
Oct 16, 2018, 6:42 am
#61
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Just to note, this is from the LH conditions of Carriage. It is crystal clear that the fare covers actual departure airport and actual destination airport, no mention of any intermediary point:
Oct 16, 2018, 6:43 am
#62
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I disagree with you that this is IDB. Neither of us was there, but I get the impression that the agreement of change-plane-for-money-in-your-bank-account was not completed to the satisfactory understanding of both sides. LH thought they needed volunteers and made an announcement about compensation, presumably based on inconvenience. When that inconvenience did not materialise, the offer was retracted. The OP was being transported to his final destination faster and more conveniently than before (as a not relevant aside, most people would be willing to pay for this). I don't see any reason or scope for LH to pay this compensation.
At that point, all that was left was for the employee to reissue the ticket and issue a voucher.
If on the other hand, this was a general announcement or simply cataloging passengers who might be willing to volunteer, nothing should have changed. OP should have been told to board as ticketed and nothing would have been owed.
Oct 16, 2018, 6:44 am
#63
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US airlines would not have given you any compensation. By EU law, you got in earlier and thus were not compensated. Again US airlines would have laughed at you
Oct 16, 2018, 7:00 am
#64
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To get to the end of this first. If there is a lesson it is that one does not move an inch from the agent until the transaction is completed. In this case that would have included new boarding passes and a voucher. If the agent is reluctant, you need to be willing to stand firm and decline the offer.
In this situation, if OP's facts are correct and there is no reason to presume that they are not, he is due EUR 300 in denied boarding compensation under EC 261/2004. That is payable in cash (equivalent) and is significantly better than the EUR 250 voucher he was offered. The EUR 300 is reached by taking the standard compensation of EUR 600 and halving it because of the delay (or lack of delay).
The suggestion of a DOT complaint is a very poor idea. Under the US DOT regulation, OP is not entitled to anything as he was not delayed (and in fact arrived early).
I would reframe this to the carrier as a claim under EC 261/2004 for EUR 300 and pursue it if need be.
In this situation, if OP's facts are correct and there is no reason to presume that they are not, he is due EUR 300 in denied boarding compensation under EC 261/2004. That is payable in cash (equivalent) and is significantly better than the EUR 250 voucher he was offered. The EUR 300 is reached by taking the standard compensation of EUR 600 and halving it because of the delay (or lack of delay).
The suggestion of a DOT complaint is a very poor idea. Under the US DOT regulation, OP is not entitled to anything as he was not delayed (and in fact arrived early).
I would reframe this to the carrier as a claim under EC 261/2004 for EUR 300 and pursue it if need be.
However, USA DOT rules do say that an airline cannot move you to a flight operated by a different carrier if you don't want it. It seems mainly useful when a schedule change moves a mainline flight to a RJ, but would seem to apply in the case of the OP being switched from a LX flight to one operated by LH. The GA's behavior seems to suggest that he/she is free to involuntarily move someone to another flight operated by a different carrier with no compensation, which wouldn't be allowed under USA DOT rules---if they apply to the OP.
Oct 16, 2018, 7:19 am
#65
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I'm sorry, but you are wrong. When you buy a ticket from A to B, you are merely buying transportation between these two points. It is in everyone's interest for that to happen as smoothly as possible. If an airline flies from A to B and you buy a simple ticket for this, there are rarely benefits for the airline to route you via an intermediate point. But, for reasons we are all familiar with, sometimes it is cheaper to construct a fare via an intermediate point C. The airline is fully within its rights and its contractual terms to, if necessary, route you through a different intermediary point D, or send you directly to B. You have no inherent right to a stop in C unless you have specifically brought C in a stopover point. This is where many hidden-city schemes come apart. If you start to argue with the airline that you needed to hand over a very important package in C, the airline will tell you that you should have bought a ticket A-C-B, not A-B via C. The former will probably be more expensive. There is no guarantee of any particular type of aircraft, either.
Yes, of course, but does EC261 give the carrier the right to rebook someone onto another airline without compensation or any choice provided that the new flight doesn't arrive (much) later? For example, if someone has a ticket on a full service carrier such as BA, AF, LH, OS, LX, etc. could a GA decide that they must fly on Ryan Air or EasyJet instead provided that the customer arrives into the same airport without (much) delay? My interpretation is that the contract does include the operating carrier (and cabin class or class of service) although as you point out it does not include the routing (unless a stopover was ticketed) or aircraft type.
Oct 16, 2018, 7:31 am
#67
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Yes, of course, but does EC261 give the carrier the right to rebook someone onto another airline without compensation or any choice provided that the new flight doesn't arrive (much) later? For example, if someone has a ticket on a full service carrier such as BA, AF, LH, OS, LX, etc. could a GA decide that they must fly on Ryan Air or EasyJet instead provided that the customer arrives into the same airport without (much) delay? My interpretation is that the contract does include the operating carrier (and cabin class or class of service) although as you point out it does not include the routing (unless a stopover was ticketed) or aircraft type.
Oct 16, 2018, 8:30 am
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So if that flight had been delayed would the OP then have been due compensation? Or alternatively, next time my flight is delayed they’re flying me for free right?
Oct 16, 2018, 9:31 am
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Oct 16, 2018, 10:54 am
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Yes, of course, but does EC261 give the carrier the right to rebook someone onto another airline without compensation or any choice provided that the new flight doesn't arrive (much) later? For example, if someone has a ticket on a full service carrier such as BA, AF, LH, OS, LX, etc. could a GA decide that they must fly on Ryan Air or EasyJet instead provided that the customer arrives into the same airport without (much) delay? My interpretation is that the contract does include the operating carrier (and cabin class or class of service) although as you point out it does not include the routing (unless a stopover was ticketed) or aircraft type.
Oct 16, 2018, 2:42 pm
#73
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This:Also, aggrievement in they they had accepted an offer which was subsequently rescinded.
Oct 17, 2018, 8:06 am
#74
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I am sold a ticket that I picked, you (airline) change my routing, you owe me.
Oct 17, 2018, 9:15 am
#75
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Sounds to me like a very interesting case study for law students. The following question arise:
1) Can an airline step back from a financial offer (the 250€ or $, doesn't really matter which currency it actually was) by replacing it with a service similiar to the original service?
2) When does a replacement service differ so much from the original booked service that an additional compensation is justified?
3) Which law, regulations and paragraph needs to be taken into account (EU, German, US, Swiss?). My gut feeling says the German BGB (German Civil Code - Probaly some paragraph about contracts and teh delivery of services stated in a contract) since the verbal offer came from a representative of LH Germany in Germany but might US law also be applicable since the ticket was isued in the US probably by the US sales company of SWISS. Just to figure this out can take some time. Maybe I'm totally on thw wrong track. I have a feeling that EC261 does not apply.
Maybe we find some law student who has fun to solve this really interesting issue.
1) Can an airline step back from a financial offer (the 250€ or $, doesn't really matter which currency it actually was) by replacing it with a service similiar to the original service?
2) When does a replacement service differ so much from the original booked service that an additional compensation is justified?
3) Which law, regulations and paragraph needs to be taken into account (EU, German, US, Swiss?). My gut feeling says the German BGB (German Civil Code - Probaly some paragraph about contracts and teh delivery of services stated in a contract) since the verbal offer came from a representative of LH Germany in Germany but might US law also be applicable since the ticket was isued in the US probably by the US sales company of SWISS. Just to figure this out can take some time. Maybe I'm totally on thw wrong track. I have a feeling that EC261 does not apply.
Maybe we find some law student who has fun to solve this really interesting issue.