FlyingBaker

New LH Senator here, very frustrated to have discovered this yesterday:

Miles Calculator on M&M website says:
MIA-TLV / BIZ (I) = 67,000 + fees, one way
MIA-TLV / FIRST (O) = 105,000 + fees, one way

When I called the Senator hotline to book my first LH/LX reward flight, she said that the mile calculator was incorrect because this flight is a "3 region" flight. Therefor, the actual cost is:

MIA-TLV / BIZ (I) = 92,000 + fees, one way
MIA-TLV / FIRST (O) = 145,0000 + fees, one way

I always understood you earn less miles w/ M&M compared to UA MP, but the award flights cost less, so I was ok with that. However, if this 3 region rule is true, then as an M&M Senator compared to a UA 1K, I earn half the amount of award points AND pay more points per award flight AND pay fees! I love LH/LX, and I would much prefer to stick with them, but this is clearly a bad deal.

Please someone tell me that the kind Senator Hotline representative was mistaken! Otherwise, so long M&M.

Air Rarotonga

Welcome to the truth of LH Miles and Less

tnmlyger

The Senator hotline rep was absolutely correct in what she said. You're going from USA to Middle East via Europe. That's three regions right there.

Nic33

True! And the Biz rate for kids displayed is 101.250. These indications make no sense.

andywaw

You and the assistant were both correct, the problem is that you and her meant different itineraries.

As far as I understand award rules of Miles & More, a "2 region" award means an itinerary from a place in zone A to a destination in zone B without a stop in another zone.

If you book a flight from North America zone (USA or Canada) to Middle East zone (Israel) it is considered "2 zone award" and the number of miles for award travel between these zones applies according to the table, namely 135.000 for business class return and 67.000 for business class one way. You are allowed to book up to 6 flight segments (return trip) and make 2 stopovers apart from staying in your destination. Stopovers are not permitted in the zone where you start your journey and not permitted in one way bookings.
Hence,, MIA-YYZ-TLV (Air Canada/United) or MIA-EWR-TLV (United) - these award itineraries are "2 zones" and will be 67.000 Business Class one way.

However, a "3 region" award means an itinerary from a place in zone A to a destination in zone B which involves a stop in one more zone.
So if you want to fly via Europe on LH or LX - it is considered "3 regions" because it involves a stop (change of planes) in EUROPE zone:
MIA is North America > FRA is Europe > TLV is Middle East = 3 regions.
With a "3 zone" award return booking you can take up to 8 flights with 2 stopovers, which can be made in this case in Europe or Middle East .

demue

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your interpretation is incorrect. A 3-Region award comes into effect every time your itinerary touches a 3rd zone / region. That's the key here. Stopover or transfer under 24hrs doesn't matter.

The examples from US via Canada to Israel will work as normal award as both US and Canada are classified in the same zone - North America. Those are the best routing options if availability can be found.

However, North America via Europe to Middle East will invoke the 3-Region award as the itinerary touches a 3rd region with Europe, even if it is only a connection. Simple as that.

SMK77

When it's a direct flight, it's a two region flight. Whenever a connection is required that's in a third region, pricing goes up.

United has direct flights from the US to TLV that would price at 67,000 miles. If you fly LH it's 92,000 miles.

A funny one is:

SQ: SIN-JFK in Business: 67,000 miles.
LH: SIN-FRA-JFK in Business: 92,000 miles.

SQ stops in FRA but continues under the same flight number, so it's a considered a direct flight.

malmostoso

Because it is a direct flight, it's just not a non-stop flight

Unterwegs

Same issue for example when you want to travel from the US to southern Asia. Most options require a connection in Japan or Korea which are in a different Zone from for example Thailand.
Other programs (like AA) have a list of allowed routings for regular awards, I wish Miles and Less would implement something similar. The current rules don't make much sense.

tnmlyger

Agreed that this rule doesn't pass the sniff test from the passenger's perspective. It does make sense from LH's perspective, though, as you want to disincentivize people from getting too creative in their award routings (Munich to NYC via Tokyo etc.).

I've argued to the point of being blue in the face with UA agents when trying to use UAMP miles that since there is no way NOT to touch a third region when flying from Europe to Australia that the non-stop points should apply - or the option should be taken off the award table. Nobody cared :-)

fereke

Isn't a Europe - Australia award costing exactly the same (100/185/290k for Y/C/F) as a 3-region award anyway?

tnmlyger

Yes, you are right. I was talking about UAMP in that paragraph and should have mentioned that.

mmff

I would love this to be more than a theoretical exercise. Unfortunately, I was never able to book awards on SQ{25, 26} through M&M.

andywaw

I don't have a bubble to burst.
And I wrote exactly what you did. (I used a word "stop" where I should have used "transfer", sorry about it).
US via Canada to Israel is 2 regions - that's what I said.
North America via Europe to Middle East is 3 regions - I said that too.
Mentioning stopovers was just extra information for those who don't know that they are allowed to make two stopovers when booking return trips across 2 regions or 3 regions.

FlyingBaker

Wow. So it's true. What a bummer!

So disappointed/frustrated to be finding this out now, would have loved a little more clarity on the miles calculator on the M&M website. I expected to earn less but spend less, not EARN LESS & SPEND MORE!

EARNING
United 1K MP - LH Metal, MIA-TLV (Z) RT EARNS 36,498 Award Miles (RT)
Lufthansa Sen M&M - LH Metal, MIA-TLV (Z) RT EARNS 23,160 Award Miles (RT)

Therefor, you earn about 37% less award miles with M&M

SPENDING
United 1K MP - LH Metal, MIA-TLV (I) One way COSTS 85,000 + $112.00 fees.
Lufthansa Sen M&M - LH Metal, MIA-TLV (I) One way COSTS 92,000 + $300.00 fees.

Therefor, you spend about 8% more award miles and about 270% more fees w/ M&M. YIKES!