EU261

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Old Jul 30, 18, 4:09 am
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EU261

Hello,
I don't have a great deal of experience with Lufthansa and need advice.

I was booked from Marseille to Frankfurt and on to Johannesburg on 26th June. I had a 1h30 transfer window in Frankfurt. My flight from Marseille to Frankfurt was delayed once then again and ended up leaving Marseille 1h30 late. At no point was any reason for the delay given other than "late arrival of the incoming aircraft". Obviously I missed my connection and was rebooked on the next day's flight to Johannesburg resulting in 24 hours delay in arrival (I missed most of a wedding I was supposed to be attending but that is beside the point). I was given a hotel in Frankfurt and a meal voucher.

I wrote to LH customer service with an EU261 claim. Heard nothing apart from confirmation of sent email. Wrote again. Heard nothing again. Finally, yesterday, one month after the facts, I received an email telling me this :

It is with regret to hear that you were affected by a delay on your trip to Frankfurt on June 26, 2018. Please accept our sincerest apologies for these unfortunate occurrences and for any inconvenience caused as a result of this matter.

The reason for the delay of your flight was due to restrictions by Air Traffic Control authorities which entailed further instructions by the airport. We are fully aware that our passengers decide to fly with us because Lufthansa is known for punctuality and reliability, and we do everything in our power to meet this expectation.

However sometimes we are unable to get you to your destination on time due to circumstances beyond our control. As an airline we have no influence over the directives and instructions of the airport and aviation security authorities, and must abide by these without exception.


In light of the aforementioned and in accordance with the EC Regulation 261/2004, we cannot comply with your request for compensation.


My question is obviously is this a valid excuse on the part of LH or are they just trying a delaying tactic? Is it worth pressing further, or should I just give up?
Any advice would be welcome...
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Old Jul 30, 18, 4:29 am
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Originally Posted by flyphilrun View Post

My question is obviously is this a valid excuse on the part of LH or are they just trying a delaying tactic? Is it worth pressing further, or should I just give up?
Any advice would be welcome...
It is standard for LH to deny liability & hope you go away.
The delay was to the inbound aircraft from FRA ?
Try & check what happened to that aircraft on the day in question
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Old Jul 30, 18, 4:35 am
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Was this because of French ATC strikes? If so, I think a positive outcome is very unlikely.
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Old Jul 30, 18, 5:38 am
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Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
Was this because of French ATC strikes? If so, I think a positive outcome is very unlikely.
Not at all no.
This was a strike free moment as far as I am aware
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Old Jul 30, 18, 5:38 am
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Originally Posted by chris63 View Post


It is standard for LH to deny liability & hope you go away.
The delay was to the inbound aircraft from FRA ?
Try & check what happened to that aircraft on the day in question
Thanks I will try to find out about the flight from Frankfurt to Marseille....
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Old Jul 30, 18, 5:44 am
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Originally Posted by flyphilrun View Post
Thanks I will try to find out about the flight from Frankfurt to Marseille....
And please let us know the outcome, it helps others
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Old Jul 30, 18, 7:15 am
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Whether a delay on the inbound is ever a reason to delay the outbound is a matter of reasonableness. Depending on when the delay became known, the question is how reasonable it is for LH to have a spare aircraft and crew at a smallish outstation and what it would take to send in such a combination and have that result in less than a 90-minute delay.

If the underlying facts, e.g., that the inbound aircraft was routed by ATC and then the airport, e.g. ground control, so as to cause the delay, that is likely a claim which will not succeed. Your travel insurance may well pay a set amount for the delay and you might look there,
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Old Aug 3, 18, 5:58 am
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Rather than start a new thread I was booked on LH935 LCY-FRA on the 15th July. Flight was cancelled about 4 hours before departure with no reason given at the time. I called up CS who couldn't give me a reason either. I accepted a re-route on LX via Zurich and arrived in Frankfurt 12 hours later than planned. I filed an EU261 claim which was knocked back - the flight cancellation was due to "poor weather conditions".

What should my next move be? I should also submit my hotel bill for the night in Zurich too?
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Old Aug 3, 18, 6:01 am
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Originally Posted by mattyw View Post
Rather than start a new thread I was booked on LH935 LCY-FRA on the 15th July. Flight was cancelled about 4 hours before departure with no reason given at the time. I called up CS who couldn't give me a reason either. I accepted a re-route on LX via Zurich and arrived in Frankfurt 12 hours later than planned. I filed an EU261 claim which was knocked back - the flight cancellation was due to "poor weather conditions".

What should my next move be? I should also submit my hotel bill for the night in Zurich too?
When you were rerouted via ZRH, were you not given a hotel voucher? The duty of care applies regardless of the situation for the cancellation, so you should certainly be getting the (reasonable) cost of that back. If your flight really was cancelled due to adverse weather conditions, EC261 won't apply.
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Old Aug 3, 18, 6:08 am
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Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
When you were rerouted via ZRH, were you not given a hotel voucher? The duty of care applies regardless of the situation for the cancellation, so you should certainly be getting the (reasonable) cost of that back. If your flight really was cancelled due to adverse weather conditions, EC261 won't apply.
I asked at LCY checkin about a voucher and was told to ask on arrival. I think we were the last flight to arrive at ZRH so after spending 20 fruitless mins looking for an LX rep I walked into the Radisson Blu and booked a night there.

Is there a way to ascertain whether there were lots of cancellations exFRA that afternoon?
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Old Aug 3, 18, 6:11 am
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Originally Posted by mattyw View Post
I asked at LCY checkin about a voucher and was told to ask on arrival. I think we were the last flight to arrive at ZRH so after spending 20 fruitless mins looking for an LX rep I walked into the Radisson Blu and booked a night there.

Is there a way to ascertain whether there were lots of cancellations exFRA that afternoon?
Check Flightradar24, but bear in mind that the adverse weather could have been at the airport where that particular aircraft had come from.
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Old Aug 3, 18, 6:14 am
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Originally Posted by mattyw View Post
I asked at LCY checkin about a voucher and was told to ask on arrival. I think we were the last flight to arrive at ZRH so after spending 20 fruitless mins looking for an LX rep I walked into the Radisson Blu and booked a night there.

Is there a way to ascertain whether there were lots of cancellations exFRA that afternoon?
There are no LX Staff in ZRH, they use SWISSPORT & they give hotel vouchers in the baggage claim area once the A transfer desk closes.

They should refund your hotel cost under duty of care.

Flight Radar app/ website holds Historical flight data. Since the flight was CNX so far in advance hard to blame weather.
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Old Aug 3, 18, 6:22 am
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FR24 shows a delay of 56 minutes from the prior flight (LH1425) for the aircraft due to operate the 934/935 pair, but it operated flights later in the day. Can I use FR24 to see delays for FRA as a whole for the relevant time period?
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Old Aug 3, 18, 7:45 am
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1. It would be common for a carrier to handle hotel arrangements at the arrival airport because those are a local matter. If LH had staff at ZRH with vouchers, you may find that LH pushes back on reimbursing your hotel if it was more expensive than what LH pays. But, it's also the sort of thing which your insurance ought to cover and then fight about with LH.

2. As to the reason for the delay, don't spend a lot of time playing amateur meteorologist or air carrier Operations specialist. All it takes is a bit of weather and ATC could easily slow the flow across a few jetways and that affects your flight and not the next. Untold permutations. Four hours in advance suggests exactly that, e.g. that ATC has advised LH that it must reduce flow between two waypoints from "X" to "Y" and that delta affected you. It will ultimately be for LH to prove this "extraordinary circumstance" if you pursue it, but LH has the facts and you don't.
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