Child goes crazy on flight
Feb 16, 2018, 3:29 pm
#46
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Dear fellow FTers,
I just deleted 18 posts that violated the FT rules because they were off topic, offensive, disruptive, racist, or a combination of those. This is a friendly reminder to stay on topic and discuss in a respectful manner. Violations of the FT rules will result in disciplinary actions.
Have a nice day
totti
co-moderator M&M forum
I just deleted 18 posts that violated the FT rules because they were off topic, offensive, disruptive, racist, or a combination of those. This is a friendly reminder to stay on topic and discuss in a respectful manner. Violations of the FT rules will result in disciplinary actions.
Have a nice day
totti
co-moderator M&M forum
Feb 16, 2018, 4:55 pm
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I have those headphones but no way will they drown out that cacophony.
Feb 16, 2018, 5:25 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Posts: 4,423
Sorry, hate to quote Spock (Mr not Dr) but I will. “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (or the one)”. There is no way that literally 100’s of people should have been subjected to this. Would they have allowed a mentally ill adult to scream the entire flight?
Feb 17, 2018, 1:15 am
#49
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 27
You think that the parents would be 'relaxed' sitting next to their kid screaming? Your logic is based on the assumption that you can do something and the child will adequately react. Considering that nobody on the airplane managed to calm the child down, I'd say it was pretty much impossible to calm it down.
I think that it is unfair to pass judgement on someone dealing a situation, most of us had never to solve. Sure kids can be difficult and parents should calm them down, but I don't think this was merely a kid being "difficult". It will not react to "sit down and be quiet", shaming, etc. It will not understand if you tie it down. If anything, it will scream more.
1) Pretty weak as a reply
2) The last part of your reply pretty much sums up what I've been saying, i.e. that nobody wants to give a sh** about mental health and anyone with such a disability is to stay home, be quiet and not annoy anyone else.
I think that it is unfair to pass judgement on someone dealing a situation, most of us had never to solve. Sure kids can be difficult and parents should calm them down, but I don't think this was merely a kid being "difficult". It will not react to "sit down and be quiet", shaming, etc. It will not understand if you tie it down. If anything, it will scream more.
1) Pretty weak as a reply
2) The last part of your reply pretty much sums up what I've been saying, i.e. that nobody wants to give a sh** about mental health and anyone with such a disability is to stay home, be quiet and not annoy anyone else.
Edit to make my post a little more on topic:
However as for the parents it goes that they do not have the right to torture their kids for their own pleasure and to torture the hundreds of other passengers. Holidays are also possible in Germany and other locations nearby with a wide variety of activities to do.
It's absolutely no excuse to state that they have to deal with that kind of behaviour 24/7, so what you got a child with special needs so care for it. Also if it was impossible for the parents to raise the child and handle this kind of life they could also set it free for adaption. It's not illegal to do that and in case the child would be risen by loving parents who are probably specially trained or willing to do so for the kid's good it could even have a better life.
Very controversial here and sad to see that some parents just don't care for their child's good.
I'm not referring to the video posted what I said above should count in general.
Sources for my statement on USA police:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/san-diego-sheriff-defends-taser-13-year-old-boy-article-1.2259171
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/08/05/social-worker-calls-911-because-shes-afraid-of-a-police-officer-he-then-violently-arrests-her/
Last edited by Nils21; Feb 17, 2018 at 1:22 am
Feb 17, 2018, 1:52 am
#50
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I would have gotten the captain involved - the child climbing over the seats is a major security risk.
Throwing the security issue at the captain should get some results!
In tubulence he might knock someones head of injuring them. I would have the captain protocol that he is aware that the child is roaming around the cabin unsecured....
I would not have been fine when the child was not secured during taxi I would have raised my concern with the purser right then....get up and get the purser!
Only of course if I would have been seated anywhere near the stinker....
Throwing the security issue at the captain should get some results!
In tubulence he might knock someones head of injuring them. I would have the captain protocol that he is aware that the child is roaming around the cabin unsecured....
I would not have been fine when the child was not secured during taxi I would have raised my concern with the purser right then....get up and get the purser!
Only of course if I would have been seated anywhere near the stinker....
Very badly handled by the crew, this was a disruptive passenger, a clear danger to himself & others, he should have been restrained or put off the flight, divert to do so if necessary, that’s the Captains decision & one of his main responsibilities
Feb 17, 2018, 3:13 pm
#52
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 948
If the child in question is disabled, then these parents are likely to have this 24/7 and that probably for the rest of their lives.
It could be worse. Comments elsewhere have been way worse with some suggesting tasering the child, euthanasia, and simply drugging the kid to the point that it's just a mindless zombie. Without wanting to go too deep into the political, this pretty much reflects society's reaction to mental illness: Drug them and put them away. Don't want to hear, see, or interact with them. Sad, but unfortunately true in most countries...
For a start, the child would have to be able to understand the objective of shaming and the reason of shaming. I have serious doubt that the child in the video can understand either which makes the whole idea pretty pointless.
You could blame the parents given that more intense parenting and special needs education could go a long way in teaching the child to understand and handle its own disability but even if parents do everything right there's guarantee of success. Some children react much better to special needs education than others.
----
Here's my .02: While this was without a doubt an unpleasant flight, I have some sympathy for the child insofar that he almost certainly didn't do it intentionally (i.e. merely for the purpose of annoying everyone else). I even have sympathy for the parents. They have this 24/7 for the next decades. Mental health is a topic that is unfortunately not receiving the attention it needs and making the symptoms of a failing system go away seems to be more important to some than looking into how individuals could be helped master their disability.
It could be worse. Comments elsewhere have been way worse with some suggesting tasering the child, euthanasia, and simply drugging the kid to the point that it's just a mindless zombie. Without wanting to go too deep into the political, this pretty much reflects society's reaction to mental illness: Drug them and put them away. Don't want to hear, see, or interact with them. Sad, but unfortunately true in most countries...
For a start, the child would have to be able to understand the objective of shaming and the reason of shaming. I have serious doubt that the child in the video can understand either which makes the whole idea pretty pointless.
You could blame the parents given that more intense parenting and special needs education could go a long way in teaching the child to understand and handle its own disability but even if parents do everything right there's guarantee of success. Some children react much better to special needs education than others.
----
Here's my .02: While this was without a doubt an unpleasant flight, I have some sympathy for the child insofar that he almost certainly didn't do it intentionally (i.e. merely for the purpose of annoying everyone else). I even have sympathy for the parents. They have this 24/7 for the next decades. Mental health is a topic that is unfortunately not receiving the attention it needs and making the symptoms of a failing system go away seems to be more important to some than looking into how individuals could be helped master their disability.
The mother (I'm presuming) chose to fly, and she knew full well if her child had any kind of unnamed disability by then. I do not think it is fair to make the child's disability the problem for 200 other people simply because you want to go to Germany. That isn't in the best interest of the child, regardless of how much he yells at home. Having kids sometimes means giving up on things you want to do.
It could always be worse, but with regards to the suggestions towards the child - who isn't at fault here - and the mother - who is, and for the passengers. But that argument is pointless, it could always be worse.
Mental illness as an excuse for an ever-expanding list of deficiencies in human behaviour is something quite new. It wasn't always acceptable to allow kids to get away with what is presented in the video, and it most certainly isn't so easy as saying with good parenting and good education about the specific disabilities it couldn't be helped - and presumably not by stating that it is the airline's fault because the wifi wasn't on early enough.
But it also isn't my problem, in any way, shape or form. The mother should fix it. If that is impossible, even with proper preparation, the child shouldn't be on an 8hrs plane ride. While mental health problems are real, and a serious issue, the way to deal with them isn't to pretend they don't exist as the mother here appears to do.
Feb 17, 2018, 4:33 pm
#53
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
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Yes. And if that child has a severe disability, then those parents will give up a lot more than your average parent. They will likely have to care for it when they are on their death bed.
Not sure whether the mental illness is an excuse. The child in the video clearly has troubles expressing himself. It has IMO very little to do from miss-behaving kids, a scenario in which your comment would be warranted.
Feb 17, 2018, 6:22 pm
#54
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Maybe she had to fly and so did the child. Maybe she had to fly and nobody to look after her child in her absence. There are unaccountable numbers of scenarios that would've required that child and that parent to fly. Many individuals with disabilities have to travel significant distances to get treatment.
You are again presuming that they want to go to Germany. It may just be the case that they had to go to Germany (or travel back from the States).
Who knows? As far as we know, the child could have a rare medical condition and there are only a few select specialist that have some experience treating it. It's not unusual for parents to seek medical treatment abroad. Stating that not flying would be in the best interest of the child and preventing it from receiving it seems contradictory.
Yes. And if that child has a severe disability, then those parents will give up a lot more than your average parent. They will likely have to care for it when they are on their death bed.
Not sure whether the mental illness is an excuse. The child in the video clearly has troubles expressing himself. It has IMO very little to do from miss-behaving kids, a scenario in which your comment would be warranted.
You are again presuming that they want to go to Germany. It may just be the case that they had to go to Germany (or travel back from the States).
Who knows? As far as we know, the child could have a rare medical condition and there are only a few select specialist that have some experience treating it. It's not unusual for parents to seek medical treatment abroad. Stating that not flying would be in the best interest of the child and preventing it from receiving it seems contradictory.
Yes. And if that child has a severe disability, then those parents will give up a lot more than your average parent. They will likely have to care for it when they are on their death bed.
Not sure whether the mental illness is an excuse. The child in the video clearly has troubles expressing himself. It has IMO very little to do from miss-behaving kids, a scenario in which your comment would be warranted.
Feb 17, 2018, 6:47 pm
#55
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 5
If the nature of your child's "disability" requires him/her to run and climb about the cabin of the plane they are ineligible to fly commercially and you should look into private or medical transport options to reach whatever treatment is not available in your home country.
Feb 18, 2018, 3:52 am
#56
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,402
What has this to do with excuses? Telling someone with a mental disability apparently unable to be quiet/sit down is like asking a wheelchair-bound to get up and participate in a 100-metre dash. Would you do that do?
Feb 18, 2018, 4:20 am
#57
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: WAW
Programs: LH SEN *
Posts: 1,149
That "someone" described by you is not allowed to fly. Someone who is unable to sit down and climbs on top of chairs while the plane is taxing or in flight, no matter how mentally stable or unstable they are, is a serious threat to all other passengers.
Feb 18, 2018, 7:59 am
#58
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PDX
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Posts: 862
Unfortunately, some will find excuses or rationalize why other passengers should tolerate such a safety hazard.
Feb 18, 2018, 12:46 pm
#60
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 566
This thread is a shameful representation of humanity and the ever dwindling levels of kindness and compassion in society.
