Child goes crazy on flight
Feb 15, 2018, 7:26 pm
#31
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,813
I couldn't get through more than a few seconds of the video, but for me the biggest factor in this things is whether the parents keep trying to keep the kid quiet or if they just give up and try to make themselves comfortable. When it is the latter, that's when I have no sympathy for the parents.
Feb 15, 2018, 9:24 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oxford, Mississippi
Programs: Delta Silver thanks to Million Miles; Choice Plat., point scrounger everywhere
Posts: 1,595
The problem is with the child and with the parents. Did the child or the parents compensate everyone on the plane by reimbursing them for their airfare and paying them $1,000 each for the disruption? If not, anyone on that plane has the right to say anything they wish about the little hellion. I agree the parents are to blame, but the screams were demonic.
Feb 16, 2018, 3:07 am
#34
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 948
It isn't a human right to fly, and I doubt the reason for the trip from New York to Germany was related to saving the kids life or improving his disability, the latter of which is a 21st-century excuse for bad parenting. 30 years ago children, regardless of their disability, wasn't allowed to wreck havoc on everyone because their Ipads didn't work.
I have no sympathy for the parents. They should've been offloaded if they cannot restrain their child as needed. I don't care which disabilities the child has, or the mom who obviously didn't do anything to stop any of this, they can row home for all I care. It isn't acceptable to inconvenience 200 people because you cannot be bothered to be a good parent.
I have no sympathy for the parents. They should've been offloaded if they cannot restrain their child as needed. I don't care which disabilities the child has, or the mom who obviously didn't do anything to stop any of this, they can row home for all I care. It isn't acceptable to inconvenience 200 people because you cannot be bothered to be a good parent.
Feb 16, 2018, 5:26 am
#35
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Programs: LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 476
As a frequent passenger, father of former babies/toddler/children/teenager and close relative of an autistic child, I do not blame but one individual: the person portrayed as the mother in the video. This so far beyond any socially acceptable norm and a torture for the child (never mind the rest of the pax on the plane) that I cannot come up with any reason as to why she would put her child through this.
This female individual (not sure if she was the mother) should have known that this behavior pattern was developing. I am speechless at her indifference and cluenessless. Offering her disembark before takeoff or restraining the child would have been sensible.
And yes, I walked about 10k in a 747 LH C-class galley on a JFK FRA flight (there is sufficient space for about 15 shuffle steps ;-) for about four hours to prevent her from disturbing fellow pax in C. Worked just fine.
When our children were older (aka walking by themselves), we always made sure that they had run out of energy by the time that boarding started. I am quite certain that I have completed an entire marathon in JFK T1 over the years. Works wonder.
This female individual (not sure if she was the mother) should have known that this behavior pattern was developing. I am speechless at her indifference and cluenessless. Offering her disembark before takeoff or restraining the child would have been sensible.
And yes, I walked about 10k in a 747 LH C-class galley on a JFK FRA flight (there is sufficient space for about 15 shuffle steps ;-) for about four hours to prevent her from disturbing fellow pax in C. Worked just fine.
When our children were older (aka walking by themselves), we always made sure that they had run out of energy by the time that boarding started. I am quite certain that I have completed an entire marathon in JFK T1 over the years. Works wonder.
Feb 16, 2018, 6:03 am
#36
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: a proud member of FT since 05-05-1998
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Posts: 2,239
I would have gotten the captain involved - the child climbing over the seats is a major security risk.
Throwing the security issue at the captain should get some results!
In tubulence he might knock someones head of injuring them. I would have the captain protocol that he is aware that the child is roaming around the cabin unsecured....
I would not have been fine when the child was not secured during taxi I would have raised my concern with the purser right then....get up and get the purser!
Only of course if I would have been seated anywhere near the stinker....
Throwing the security issue at the captain should get some results!
In tubulence he might knock someones head of injuring them. I would have the captain protocol that he is aware that the child is roaming around the cabin unsecured....
I would not have been fine when the child was not secured during taxi I would have raised my concern with the purser right then....get up and get the purser!
Only of course if I would have been seated anywhere near the stinker....
Feb 16, 2018, 6:04 am
#37
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
And there is nothing selfish in what I wrote as I am putting the needs of the many over the desires of the few. Flights are generally pretty quiet, serene environments as the vast majority of passengers aren't there to socialize or experience 'hustle and bustle', they are mostly just trying to get through the flight in peace. This isn't a public square or a New York subway for that matter. People pay a lot of money to fly and nowadays not a lot can be expected, but 'not being caught in a nightmare come to life' seems like a fair expectation. And yes being stuck in a place for 8-9 hours with a little kid running around screaming, climbing up all over the place or what else *is* that. It's like the story from "Nightmare at 20,000 Feet" except with the gremlin *inside* the cabin.
Feb 16, 2018, 7:16 am
#38
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bregenz, Austria
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If this child was jumping around unrestrained during taxiing, this should have been dealt with before take-off.
The parent(s)/guardian(s) of this child should have been ordered to keep him restrained. If they were unable or unwilling to do that, the plane should have returned to gate to offload them.
This is regardless of whatever real or perceived disability this child has. However, a society has been created, whereby the needs and demands of individuals have been allowed to reign supreme and are pandered to at all costs, regardless of the impact this has on others.
Service providers, including airlines, have become so terrified of being accused of - or increasingly likely sued for - discrimination, that they have become increasingly willing to overlook behaviour which unreasonably impinges on the comfort of others.
Young children are always going to create a certain amount of disruption on a long flight. This has to be expected and accepted by the rest of society. However, a reasonable balance needs to be struck.
Parents and guardians have a responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure that their children do not behave in a manner which significantly compromises the comfort or safety of others.
This means ensuring that the child sits down with the seatbelt fastened when required, does not constantly run around the aircraft and keeps any noise occasional and a reasonable level.
If a child is truly incapable of doing this, or parents are unwilling to enforce it, then a commercial airliner is not a suitable environment to bring that child into.
The parent(s)/guardian(s) of this child should have been ordered to keep him restrained. If they were unable or unwilling to do that, the plane should have returned to gate to offload them.
This is regardless of whatever real or perceived disability this child has. However, a society has been created, whereby the needs and demands of individuals have been allowed to reign supreme and are pandered to at all costs, regardless of the impact this has on others.
Service providers, including airlines, have become so terrified of being accused of - or increasingly likely sued for - discrimination, that they have become increasingly willing to overlook behaviour which unreasonably impinges on the comfort of others.
Young children are always going to create a certain amount of disruption on a long flight. This has to be expected and accepted by the rest of society. However, a reasonable balance needs to be struck.
Parents and guardians have a responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure that their children do not behave in a manner which significantly compromises the comfort or safety of others.
This means ensuring that the child sits down with the seatbelt fastened when required, does not constantly run around the aircraft and keeps any noise occasional and a reasonable level.
If a child is truly incapable of doing this, or parents are unwilling to enforce it, then a commercial airliner is not a suitable environment to bring that child into.
Feb 16, 2018, 8:23 am
#39
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,403
It could be worse. Comments elsewhere have been way worse with some suggesting tasering the child, euthanasia, and simply drugging the kid to the point that it's just a mindless zombie. Without wanting to go too deep into the political, this pretty much reflects society's reaction to mental illness: Drug them and put them away. Don't want to hear, see, or interact with them. Sad, but unfortunately true in most countries...
For a start, the child would have to be able to understand the objective of shaming and the reason of shaming. I have serious doubt that the child in the video can understand either which makes the whole idea pretty pointless.
You could blame the parents given that more intense parenting and special needs education could go a long way in teaching the child to understand and handle its own disability but even if parents do everything right there's guarantee of success. Some children react much better to special needs education than others.
----
Here's my .02: While this was without a doubt an unpleasant flight, I have some sympathy for the child insofar that he almost certainly didn't do it intentionally (i.e. merely for the purpose of annoying everyone else). I even have sympathy for the parents. They have this 24/7 for the next decades. Mental health is a topic that is unfortunately not receiving the attention it needs and making the symptoms of a failing system go away seems to be more important to some than looking into how individuals could be helped master their disability.
Feb 16, 2018, 9:01 am
#40
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PDX
Programs: DL, UA, AA, BA, AS, SPG, MR, IHG, PC
Posts: 862
If the child in question is disabled, then these parents are likely to have this 24/7 and that probably for the rest of their lives.
It could be worse. Comments elsewhere have been way worse with some suggesting tasering the child, euthanasia, and simply drugging the kid to the point that it's just a mindless zombie. Without wanting to go too deep into the political, this pretty much reflects society's reaction to mental illness: Drug them and put them away. Don't want to hear, see, or interact with them. Sad, but unfortunately true in most countries...
For a start, the child would have to be able to understand the objective of shaming and the reason of shaming. I have serious doubt that the child in the video can understand either which makes the whole idea pretty pointless.
You could blame the parents given that more intense parenting and special needs education could go a long way in teaching the child to understand and handle its own disability but even if parents do everything right there's guarantee of success. Some children react much better to special needs education than others.
----
Here's my .02: While this was without a doubt an unpleasant flight, I have some sympathy for the child insofar that he almost certainly didn't do it intentionally (i.e. merely for the purpose of annoying everyone else). I even have sympathy for the parents. They have this 24/7 for the next decades. Mental health is a topic that is unfortunately not receiving the attention it needs and making the symptoms of a failing system go away seems to be more important to some than looking into how individuals could be helped master their disability.
It could be worse. Comments elsewhere have been way worse with some suggesting tasering the child, euthanasia, and simply drugging the kid to the point that it's just a mindless zombie. Without wanting to go too deep into the political, this pretty much reflects society's reaction to mental illness: Drug them and put them away. Don't want to hear, see, or interact with them. Sad, but unfortunately true in most countries...
For a start, the child would have to be able to understand the objective of shaming and the reason of shaming. I have serious doubt that the child in the video can understand either which makes the whole idea pretty pointless.
You could blame the parents given that more intense parenting and special needs education could go a long way in teaching the child to understand and handle its own disability but even if parents do everything right there's guarantee of success. Some children react much better to special needs education than others.
----
Here's my .02: While this was without a doubt an unpleasant flight, I have some sympathy for the child insofar that he almost certainly didn't do it intentionally (i.e. merely for the purpose of annoying everyone else). I even have sympathy for the parents. They have this 24/7 for the next decades. Mental health is a topic that is unfortunately not receiving the attention it needs and making the symptoms of a failing system go away seems to be more important to some than looking into how individuals could be helped master their disability.
Feb 16, 2018, 9:16 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,813
There are plenty of times that parents can take breaks from their kids, even disabled ones. But a TATL flight is not that time. The parents have an obligation to do whatever they can to keep the child quiet, even if it means them not relaxing the whole flight. Short of that, they deserve to be shamed, IMO. There are such things as bad parents. And at least on this day, they were.
Feb 16, 2018, 11:00 am
#43
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MRY - CNX - TXL
Programs: UA 1K / *G / Marriott PE / Expedia Gold+ / Hertz PC
Posts: 7,058
I’m able to “tie myself down” with the provided equipment just fine.
Feb 16, 2018, 11:07 am
#44
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Programs: LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 476
Actually, just having managed to view the full video (couldn't bear to watch the entire video the first time around), I find that Lufthansa (and the female being that might or not might have been the mother) has materially failed their pax here. A screaming child can and will exceed 85 db easily. That level is an occupational hazard.
In the video, you'll notice a female passenger in an aisle seat not only visibly cringing, but being startled at the scream emitting child running through the aisle. That small sequence in itself should have been enough to have a cabin service director intervene on behalf of the other passengers.
This was a daytime, 8h flight (FRA-EWR). I can't bear to imagine how the TATL eastbound flight as a redeye played out.
In the video, you'll notice a female passenger in an aisle seat not only visibly cringing, but being startled at the scream emitting child running through the aisle. That small sequence in itself should have been enough to have a cabin service director intervene on behalf of the other passengers.
This was a daytime, 8h flight (FRA-EWR). I can't bear to imagine how the TATL eastbound flight as a redeye played out.
Feb 16, 2018, 2:26 pm
#45
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,403
There are plenty of times that parents can take breaks from their kids, even disabled ones. But a TATL flight is not that time. The parents have an obligation to do whatever they can to keep the child quiet, even if it means them not relaxing the whole flight. Short of that, they deserve to be shamed, IMO. There are such things as bad parents. And at least on this day, they were.
I think that it is unfair to pass judgement on someone dealing a situation, most of us had never to solve. Sure kids can be difficult and parents should calm them down, but I don't think this was merely a kid being "difficult". It will not react to "sit down and be quiet", shaming, etc. It will not understand if you tie it down. If anything, it will scream more.
2) The last part of your reply pretty much sums up what I've been saying, i.e. that nobody wants to give a sh** about mental health and anyone with such a disability is to stay home, be quiet and not annoy anyone else.