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M&M going revenue based [for award miles on LH group tickets] 12MAR2018

M&M going revenue based [for award miles on LH group tickets] 12MAR2018

Old Dec 12, 2017, 2:55 am
  #76  
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Originally Posted by worldclubber


As much as I hate to say it: You were probably one of the top targets of the reform then.
I guess all longhaul passengers!
I only book D class upwards. Not that cheap to be honest and certainly more expensive than competitors.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 3:36 am
  #77  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Expect BA/IAG to jump in on the action too.
IAG was the first!

https://www.aerlingus.com/aerclub/us...b-0-in-the-air
What is Vueling Club
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 3:42 am
  #78  
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Originally Posted by NewbieRunner
The whole trip should give me 10,126 status/award miles including executive bonus which is quite a bargain. Under the new system I will only get 3,292 miles if all flights are on LH Group airlines - the reason why I'm curious to know what will happen if the same ticket was bought after 12.3.18.
"Does not apply to the calculation of status, select and HON Circle miles "

So: no change as regards status miles.

Additionally - it only applies to new bookings. NOT to existing tickets.

"When does the revenue-based system come into effect?
The new system will apply to tickets issued from 12.3.2018 and to flights operated from 12.3.2018. Both conditions must be met."
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 3:42 am
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by worldclubber
As much as I hate to say it: You were probably one of the top targets of the reform then.
On the bright side, looks like LH really cares about such customers.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 4:12 am
  #80  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
"Does not apply to the calculation of status, select and HON Circle miles "

So: no change as regards status miles.

Additionally - it only applies to new bookings. NOT to existing tickets.

"When does the revenue-based system come into effect?
The new system will apply to tickets issued from 12.3.2018 and to flights operated from 12.3.2018. Both conditions must be met."
I used it as an example to check how different (award) miles earning would be under the new system.

Also I wanted to point out it's not clear on M&M's website how a non-LH Group flight will be treated in a mixed itinerary.

Edited to add:
I used the animated tool on M&M's website and found that for FTL/SEN/HON the factor of 5 is used for all airlines on which you can earn M&M miles but which are not individually mentioned along with Brussels Airlines and Eurowings.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Dec 12, 2017 at 4:42 am
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 4:35 am
  #81  
 
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I just calculated my last flights. I do a lot of domestic flights in higher booking classes, most in Business and a few longhauls. The enhancement is form me betwenn -10 to -40%.

Thank you LH. So when I shop with my payback card it becomes much more valuable!

On the other hand you now can calculate the real value of a mile. This is interesting for the tax office (income tax), or lawyers when fighting against LH. Now you just can price the simple mile cashback into your price comparison.

When you fly in cheap tickets it is even worse. I thought that 125 miles is low enough. But yes, it can be beaten!
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 4:44 am
  #82  
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Segment Qualification

I wonder if it will still be possible to qualify for FTL through segments. In fact, I wonder if segments will be noted at i just wonder how they can really do a revenue based system in Europe with so many different markets.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 5:27 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by cas_de
... in an ideal world (I am a dreamer) I would have either included some sort of cabin class factor, like PE = ((base fare + YQ)*1.25)* status factor); *1.5 for business class and *2 for first, or even a single factor for all cabins expect for economy.
People who pay for B or Y fares to fly in Economy or E & G for Premium Economy have been getting more miles than those paying for heavily discounted business fares. So this isn't new.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 5:28 am
  #84  
 
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Honestly speaking, I do not think I lose amid the change. Lufthansa already gives extremely small amount miles for lower classes, e.g. 125 miles per segment flown. You can only earn more with the new system. The real losers are primarily long-haul low classes flyers... I guess.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 5:54 am
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean
When you fly in cheap tickets it is even worse. I thought that 125 miles is low enough. But yes, it can be beaten!
The lowest I could find in my booking history is a return flight to LCY. Overall cost 82€. Flight: 14€. No YQ/YR. Taxes: 68€. That flight would get you 250 miles. Under the new system that would be 56 miles for blue members. I'm not necessarily against revenue-based earning, but it should IMO apply to the paid fare. The worst off are those booking discount fares (whether in Y/Y+/C/F) far in advance. Moreover I would add higher multiple for Senators and HONs and for C and F.

The current F offer CDG-HKG on LX would earn a basic M&M member only 9,088 miles (1956€ BF + 316€ YQ/YR). That's 0.75 of the distance. Ouuchh. Under the current system it's 38,600 miles. That's a minus of of nearly 80%.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 6:02 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by Nic33
... which is weird as I understand that the margins are the highest in C. And I understand that airlines fight to capture those customers.
Top target in the sense that he seems to generate too many award miles based on the revenue. A bookings are hit very hard.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 6:04 am
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by Rambuster
I guess all longhaul passengers!
I only book D class upwards. Not that cheap to be honest and certainly more expensive than competitors.
Yeah, will hit me (particularly my A bookings), too.

The devaluation of A really bites, but is probably one of the desired effects of the reform.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 6:24 am
  #88  
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Every carrier is becoming more transactional and the importance of loyalty continues to decrease. Many times pax just don't care about the miles because the fares are so cheap, then next its that they don't care about the lounges because the paid subscription lounges are better or you can access the same ones that previously required a loyalty card with a credit card. Who would have ever thought you would be able to access a LH FCL with an AmEx? Or, you don't care about some orphan miles in EY/EK/QR because they're so much better than your regular carrier and often, the fares are better. Ryanair is bearable because of the things I have mentioned, cheap extra seat, front row, easyJet cards for free exit seats etc. I would rather pay €1500 for a business fare than €2000 with miles. It's with increasing frequency I can find a ticket on another carrier for a better fare than using my miles by my perceived values, conveniences etc. And, given what I just said, I can do without the unlimited potato salad.

The EU has gone after their lovely cash-rich channel of the credit card firms paying for miles which was very important. And to top it off, they want €1000 in taxes and surcharges on your free ticket that is probably available on another carrier (or the same!) as a revenue fare. Once they unbundled we could see it just wasn't premium at all. It's not premium to have a Business Fare and have better food/drinks down the back (like BA CE). They will regret all of this big time and when that time comes we can watch them squirm as they desperately try to show how different they are from the LCC, the ME carriers, and why we should pay more to fly with them for increasingly minimal benefits.

LOT are not too happy with M&M and this could be another step in that direction. The situation has always been really weird. LH are a competitor of LO in a way unlike any other carrier that uses M&M. Forgive me but I think only OU and JP are the others not controlled by papa Lufty? Along with LG, the combination is tiny compared to LO and they barely compete with LH. LO are getting bigger and more a competitor of LH group, LH's dumping on the Polish market is notorious (It's a sea of K fares) and LO are clearly gunning for the tasty German market. I imagine LH would then retaliate against LO like they did with TK on the mileage earning...

Already they offer special promo awards for the PL market which are a fraction of a M&M promo(-show me a LH promo Y return for 7k miles with no YQ). It shows that it really isn't compatible with LO and given the generally low price of LO tickets I can see Polish Members will feel hard hit by the changes.

I just hope LO don't exit Star.
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 7:51 am
  #89  
 
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It is really pathetic: an A class ticket from MXP or AMS to HNL via FRA and LAX costing Euro 4200 used to earn around 65k award miles, with the changes taking effect after three months that ticket will earn 24k award miles only
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Old Dec 12, 2017, 8:04 am
  #90  
 
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Frankly, I find this whole change underwhelming. Sure it is a devaluation for some people, but then it will also give a lot of people on more expensive eco tickets (especially domestic or European short-haul) a lot more (40%-60% for me personally) miles than before.

Also please remember that at least for German/Austrian/Swiss customers, it is much easier to accrue a ton of miles via cheap magazine subscriptions (eg. currently there is an offer for 60,000 and a daily newspaper for a year for about 700€). To get the same amount of miles with flying, you will need to spend 10 times the amount of money. So I am not sure that giving away award miles is that much of a concern at LH at all.
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