M&M going revenue based [for award miles on LH group tickets] 12MAR2018
Dec 11, 2017, 8:09 am
#31
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
Dec 11, 2017, 8:32 am
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: WAW
Programs: LH SEN *
Posts: 1,152
Dec 11, 2017, 8:37 am
#33
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
Another question.....There seems to be confusion on if fare basis used to calculate the new miles includes taxes or not. This is what I found in the LH release:
For flights booked from 12 March 2018, the basis of the calculation will be the fare, i.e. the ticket price plus any surcharges levied by the airline concerned.
How exactly are we to interpret the terms “surcharges levied by the airline concerned?”
Is this a play on wording to only give credit for LH based surcharges and NOT on the taxes?
Dec 11, 2017, 9:02 am
#34
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
2) For tickets beginning with the numbers 220 (Lufthansa), 724 (SWISS), 257 (Austrian Airlines), 082 (Brussels Airlines) or issued by Eurowings, award miles are calculated under the new system.Seems interesting that UA (and DL/AA) IT is able to track the revenue for their own metal while LH isn't...
Flying Blue is giving up to 8 miles per EUR and they pay up on ancillary services too. I know it's FB but still on paper it looks better.
Dec 11, 2017, 9:19 am
#36
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Sollten Sie Ihren Flug über ein Reisebüro oder Online-Reisebüro buchen, erfahren Sie mit Erhalt Ihrer Ticketnummer(2), nach welchem System die Prämienmeilen berechnet werden.
And the GDS fee is just for LH Group stock. So paying that doesn't change the earn rates.
Yes, just like every other revenue-based program operating today. :-:
Dec 11, 2017, 9:27 am
#37
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Because there are still cases where earning by revenue is better. A 150 euro return from BUD-FRA in K now earns 300+ points instead of 250. A P fare TATL likely earns better as revenue-based, too. Booking L fares TATL are also likely to earn better under the new program.
Dec 11, 2017, 9:30 am
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: WAW
Programs: LH SEN *
Posts: 1,152
I don't believe this affects the earning rates. Anything on LH Group stock will earn under the new scheme from what I'm reading.
The executive bonus is now 50% on TATL JV partner airlines & LH Group (6 points per euro), except 25% on Brussels Airlines and Eurowings (5/euro).
The executive bonus is now 50% on TATL JV partner airlines & LH Group (6 points per euro), except 25% on Brussels Airlines and Eurowings (5/euro).
6 points per Euro = included bonus when calculating AWARD MILES in the revenue system
STATUS MILES will be calculated under the current system, so here the Executive bonus stays at 25% miles flown according to the booked class
Dec 11, 2017, 9:33 am
#39
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,856
FAQ from the App. Great news...
How are award miles calculated under the revenue-based system?
Under the revenue-based system your award miles will be calculated as follows: fare (ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline) x factor = number of award miles earned. You will find information about flights on which miles cannot be earned here.
Which multiplying factor applies in the revenue-based system to Miles & More members?
If you are a Miles & More member, but not yet a Frequent Traveller, Senator or HON Circle Member, then a multiplying factor of 4 will always be used.
Which factor applies to Frequent Travellers, Senators or HON Circle Members?
For members with frequent flyer status, the criterion is which airline operates the flight. If the flight is operated by Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, United Airlines, Air Canada, LOT Polish Airlines, Croatia Airlines, Adria Airlines or Air Dolomiti, then the multiplying factor is 6; for Brussels Airlines and Eurowings and all other Miles & More partner airlines, the factor is 5. You will find information on the Miles & More partner airlines here.
Will I still receive an Executive Bonus under the revenue-based system?
As a Frequent Traveller, Senator or HON Circle Member, you will also benefit from an Executive Bonus under the revenue-based system. The bonus has already been taken into account in the factors and is 25% on flights with Brussels Airlines, Eurowings and other Miles & More partner airlines or 50% on flights with Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, United Airlines, Air Canada, LOT Polish Airlines, Croatia Airlines, Adria Airlines or Air Dolomiti.
How will I know whether the revenue-based system applies to my flight?
The criterion for this is the booking channel. The new system applies to all tickets sold by Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, Eurowings or Brussels Airlines. If you book via a direct sales channel of Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, Eurowings or Brussels Airlines, i.e. the website, miles will be awarded based on the new system. If you book via a third-party sales channel, i.e. a travel agent or online travel agency, you will be able to tell by the ticket number whether your award miles will be calculated according to the new system. If the first three digits of your ticket number are 220 (Lufthansa), 724 (SWISS), 257 (Austrian Airlines) or 082 (Brussels Airlines) or Eurowings, the new system applies to your flight - if not, the award miles are calculated according to the old system. The one exception are tickets purchased through a tour operator. Here award miles are allocated according to the booking class, irrespective of the ticket number. In rare cases where no fare information is available, Miles & More reserves the right to continue to award miles according to the booking-class-based system.
Does the revenue-based system also apply to status miles, select miles and HON Circle miles?
No, the new system does not apply to status, select or HON Circle miles. These will be awarded as usual under the current system. All the privileges associated with your status also remain unchanged.
How is foreign currency converted if I do not pay in euros?
The amount of the currency you paid is converted into euros at the conversion rate valid at the time the ticket was issued. We use the OANDA ask price for the currency conversion. You can find this at: www.oanda.com.
Does the total price for the flight form the basis for the awarding of miles?
No, the calculation of award miles is based on the fare, i.e. the ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline.
How exactly is the fare calculated?
The fare is the ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline.
I have a codeshare flight. Which factor is relevant to me?
The awarding of miles is based on the multiplying factor of the airline operating the flight. If you are a Miles & More member, this factor is 4. If you are a Frequent Traveller, Senator or HON Circle Member, it is 6 on flights operated by Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, United Airlines, Air Canada, LOT Polish Airlines, Croatia Airlines, Adria Airlines and Air Dolomiti. It is 5 on flights operated by Eurowings and Brussels Airlines.
Where will I find the ticket price, which together with surcharges makes up the fare?
Either on the airline website during the booking process or on the passenger receipt. The ticket price, as well as the national/international surcharge (shown as YQ), is specified on it.
When does the revenue-based system come into effect?
The new system will apply to tickets issued from 12.3.2018 and to flights operated from 12.3.2018. Both conditions must be met.
How are miles credited?
Miles will continue to be credited to you after each flight. For this purpose, the ticket price is allocated to the individual flight segments. Once you have completed your entire journey, the total miles for the individual flight segments are thus equivalent to the mileage amount for the entire ticket.
Will I receive award miles for product and service fees?
No. You only receive award miles for the fare paid (ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline).
Can I also earn miles for cancelled flights or flights that I do not take up?
No. Award miles will continue to be credited solely for flight segments that have been flown (a single route with both a take-off and a landing). For further information, please see section 2.3.2 in the General Terms & Conditions.
What happens if I rebook tickets I bought before 12.3.2018 after 12.3.2018?
For all rebookings that affect the ticket price, the new rules will apply from 12.3.2018.
(1) You can find out which airlines these are here.
(2) For tickets beginning with the numbers 220 (Lufthansa), 724 (SWISS), 257 (Austrian Airlines), 082 (Brussels Airlines) or issued by Eurowings, award miles are calculated under the new system.
Under the revenue-based system your award miles will be calculated as follows: fare (ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline) x factor = number of award miles earned. You will find information about flights on which miles cannot be earned here.
Which multiplying factor applies in the revenue-based system to Miles & More members?
If you are a Miles & More member, but not yet a Frequent Traveller, Senator or HON Circle Member, then a multiplying factor of 4 will always be used.
Which factor applies to Frequent Travellers, Senators or HON Circle Members?
For members with frequent flyer status, the criterion is which airline operates the flight. If the flight is operated by Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, United Airlines, Air Canada, LOT Polish Airlines, Croatia Airlines, Adria Airlines or Air Dolomiti, then the multiplying factor is 6; for Brussels Airlines and Eurowings and all other Miles & More partner airlines, the factor is 5. You will find information on the Miles & More partner airlines here.
Will I still receive an Executive Bonus under the revenue-based system?
As a Frequent Traveller, Senator or HON Circle Member, you will also benefit from an Executive Bonus under the revenue-based system. The bonus has already been taken into account in the factors and is 25% on flights with Brussels Airlines, Eurowings and other Miles & More partner airlines or 50% on flights with Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, United Airlines, Air Canada, LOT Polish Airlines, Croatia Airlines, Adria Airlines or Air Dolomiti.
How will I know whether the revenue-based system applies to my flight?
The criterion for this is the booking channel. The new system applies to all tickets sold by Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, Eurowings or Brussels Airlines. If you book via a direct sales channel of Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, Eurowings or Brussels Airlines, i.e. the website, miles will be awarded based on the new system. If you book via a third-party sales channel, i.e. a travel agent or online travel agency, you will be able to tell by the ticket number whether your award miles will be calculated according to the new system. If the first three digits of your ticket number are 220 (Lufthansa), 724 (SWISS), 257 (Austrian Airlines) or 082 (Brussels Airlines) or Eurowings, the new system applies to your flight - if not, the award miles are calculated according to the old system. The one exception are tickets purchased through a tour operator. Here award miles are allocated according to the booking class, irrespective of the ticket number. In rare cases where no fare information is available, Miles & More reserves the right to continue to award miles according to the booking-class-based system.
Does the revenue-based system also apply to status miles, select miles and HON Circle miles?
No, the new system does not apply to status, select or HON Circle miles. These will be awarded as usual under the current system. All the privileges associated with your status also remain unchanged.
How is foreign currency converted if I do not pay in euros?
The amount of the currency you paid is converted into euros at the conversion rate valid at the time the ticket was issued. We use the OANDA ask price for the currency conversion. You can find this at: www.oanda.com.
Does the total price for the flight form the basis for the awarding of miles?
No, the calculation of award miles is based on the fare, i.e. the ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline.
How exactly is the fare calculated?
The fare is the ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline.
I have a codeshare flight. Which factor is relevant to me?
The awarding of miles is based on the multiplying factor of the airline operating the flight. If you are a Miles & More member, this factor is 4. If you are a Frequent Traveller, Senator or HON Circle Member, it is 6 on flights operated by Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, United Airlines, Air Canada, LOT Polish Airlines, Croatia Airlines, Adria Airlines and Air Dolomiti. It is 5 on flights operated by Eurowings and Brussels Airlines.
Where will I find the ticket price, which together with surcharges makes up the fare?
Either on the airline website during the booking process or on the passenger receipt. The ticket price, as well as the national/international surcharge (shown as YQ), is specified on it.
When does the revenue-based system come into effect?
The new system will apply to tickets issued from 12.3.2018 and to flights operated from 12.3.2018. Both conditions must be met.
How are miles credited?
Miles will continue to be credited to you after each flight. For this purpose, the ticket price is allocated to the individual flight segments. Once you have completed your entire journey, the total miles for the individual flight segments are thus equivalent to the mileage amount for the entire ticket.
Will I receive award miles for product and service fees?
No. You only receive award miles for the fare paid (ticket price + surcharges levied by the Miles & More partner airline).
Can I also earn miles for cancelled flights or flights that I do not take up?
No. Award miles will continue to be credited solely for flight segments that have been flown (a single route with both a take-off and a landing). For further information, please see section 2.3.2 in the General Terms & Conditions.
What happens if I rebook tickets I bought before 12.3.2018 after 12.3.2018?
For all rebookings that affect the ticket price, the new rules will apply from 12.3.2018.
(1) You can find out which airlines these are here.
(2) For tickets beginning with the numbers 220 (Lufthansa), 724 (SWISS), 257 (Austrian Airlines), 082 (Brussels Airlines) or issued by Eurowings, award miles are calculated under the new system.
Dec 11, 2017, 9:46 am
#40
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ROC/NYC/MSP/LAX/HKG/SIN
Posts: 3,212
UA credits LH/AC as mileage-based. Does it mean LH credits revenue-based even if it's UA/AC stock tix? If so, it will be very very bad.
Dec 11, 2017, 10:00 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
'If the first three digits of your ticket number are 220 (Lufthansa), 724 (SWISS), 257 (Austrian Airlines) or 082 (Brussels Airlines) or Eurowings, the new system applies to your flight - if not, the award miles are calculated according to the old system.'
Dec 11, 2017, 10:06 am
#42
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
The multiplier for LO flights is 6 (for FTL+) but the new system only applies for bookings made via the LH group airlines (LH, OS, LX, SN + Eurowings).
So if I find an LO operated flight (or UA, AC, etc.) then presumably I can calculate which system will give more miles and then choose to book the flight either through the LH site (new system) or direct through the LOT site (old system), according to whichever is better. I could do the reverse for an LH operated flight by booking it on lot.com (old system) if that gives more miles than booking direct on lufthansa.com (new system).
If I've got this wrong please feel free to tell me, but at the moment it looks like I can play one system against the other and cherry pick the best option each time.
So if I find an LO operated flight (or UA, AC, etc.) then presumably I can calculate which system will give more miles and then choose to book the flight either through the LH site (new system) or direct through the LOT site (old system), according to whichever is better. I could do the reverse for an LH operated flight by booking it on lot.com (old system) if that gives more miles than booking direct on lufthansa.com (new system).
If I've got this wrong please feel free to tell me, but at the moment it looks like I can play one system against the other and cherry pick the best option each time.
Dec 11, 2017, 10:22 am
#43
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,856
So 33€ In this example
132 miles for blue members instead of 250
198 miles for status instead of 314
It can be better if one gets an K,L,T at a higher price, but it does look bad
Where will I find the ticket price, which together with surcharges makes up the fare?
Either on the airline website during the booking process or on the passenger receipt. The ticket price, as well as the national/international surcharge (shown as YQ), is specified on it.
Either on the airline website during the booking process or on the passenger receipt. The ticket price, as well as the national/international surcharge (shown as YQ), is specified on it.
Dec 11, 2017, 10:33 am
#44
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
You were quite generous I'd say. If I look at the FAQ (see below quote) it's ticket price +YQ.
So 33€ In this example
132 miles for blue members instead of 250
198 miles for status instead of 314
It can be better if one gets an K,L,T at a higher price, but it does look bad
Maybe someone that understands German can clarify from the DE version of the FAQ. That's likely to be more precise about this than the EN version.
UPDATE: I was actually responding to CyBeR. I agree with the tenor of what GBM.flights says. If this ever applied to LO flights it would look a lot worse as YQ is relatively small. Often on the cheaper regional flights over 90% of the cost is other taxes - so even 125 miles might look generous in comparison!
Last edited by yurtripper; Dec 11, 2017 at 10:41 am Reason: Clarified who the comment was aimed at.
Dec 11, 2017, 10:35 am
#45
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
Monopoly fares
So the good news is that the sky high fares on their monopoly routes (e.g. ZRH-BRU) are at least earning a decent amount of award miles. E.g. ZRH-BRU often books into U, which is about 1000 EUR formthe return without taxes. It currently earns 2*750=1500 for non status members and 1875 for status members. In the future it will earn about 4000 for non status members and 6000 for status members!