Fabo.sk

Yes, but on the other hand their redeeming is more expensive.

Yes, provided the flights and prices are available through both channels.

Fare + YQ, so 23 + 10.

Indeed good for those people.

Lack

That's challenging to prove for marketing though. Especially when they're going with the simplicity enhancement message (disregarding how stupid and not true that is).

HadesNL

Good grief, this is all giving my headache.

although not the best FFP, i always thought M&M was an easy one to calculate to earn status / award miles under the old system. Method of operating carrier + booking class + distance -> look up percentage of M&M accrual chat ( bar the silly TK sneer).

What surprises me is that LH decided to keep status mile accrual at the same old method. So in theory the same amount of my flying paterns (some LHgroup: longhaul business Z / P add some First A- with some D BR/SQ(starpartners) could still get me the usual SEN. So i tend to believe that LH wishes to reward longhaul flyers with status yet restrict their use of miles (by acculumating during the new revenue scheme) to lessen the impact liabilities by outstanding miles balances.

In theory the K-fare miles increase sounds good but i bet there will restrictions in fare rules sneaked in to offset said improvement.

So thank you Delta (and lapdog flying blue) for introducing new ways to milk the cashcows, but it will be soon dire straits if WIllie Walsh and Alex Cruz from BA have influenced LH with their so called Tierpoints destination segmentation and minimum x flights on home metal pre-equisite.

htb

That's probably because of the profit-sharing agreements with UA and AC.

Good luck trying to book premium economy through UA. UA seems to turn a blind eye to LH's PE class -- probably because they don't have a comparable product.

HTB.

totti

My thinking as well: The ridiculously expensive FRA-GVA flights I booked recently (restricted economy fares!) would earn more than 2000 miles instead of 1000 or 1500 without status. There must be a catch to it.

htb

What about 5-11x the base fare (in $) instead of 4-6x the base fare (in €)? OK, in the meanwhile rewards require more miles, but you don't have to pay >300€ in fuel surcharge.

HTB.

lefrid

It seems to me that the reasoning behind the overall expected increase of miles earned on the less expensive booking classes are there to entice the people who book only the cheapest flights only a few times a yer to their destination to remain in LH group. Early this year I made a LUX-ZRH-DEL in a low class. It yielded for my wife around 2000 miles for the whole (not mentioning that we got 4 opups in J :-) ). I am SEN so I try to continue to accumulate in M&M but for someone that travels 2/3 times a year and accumulate long haul 6000 miles what can they do with that except a magnet or another gadget from the LH worldshop. Not enough to bring incremental business to LH which is the goal of any loyalty program. Its goal is not to reward past activities but attract new business. I think the new FB is similarly designed.
And even there I am pretty sure they have calculated the amount of miles from those M&M Blue that will circle the drain after 3 years.
The people buying J or F fares are more often business people either tied with company contract or buying last minute ticket. LH estimates that the risk of those people buying elsewhere is lower than the miles reduction on those tickets.
We are waiting for the next round of enhancements with dynamic pricing, review of status miles levels as they are for the moment left untouched and I am sure many people here could give them hints on how to organise this efficiently.

lefrid

Lack

So how is 4x 350E = 1400 miles going to attract customers to long haul LH from Norwegian, WOW (not to mention the heavyweights)?

lefrid

Not all long all flights cost 350 EUR and Norwegian does not (yet) fly all over the places to where the LH group flies.
Maybe the new program is simpler to understand for most people and some will make more intra Europe than the usual 125 * 2. The math here I think is to try to reduce the overall balance of miles on their off balance sheet (give more miles than will go down the drain unused or use them to redeem long haul Y). People in J is a different story as Z/P will probably earn more while J less.
One of the losers is the multi segments flights tough.
Mileage run are not yet over on the status miles side but now is maybe the dead cat bounce.

Rambuster

I only book D class upwards: It looks like I will receive 40% less miles with my profile compared to the current system.
Quite a cull.

Edit: I just calculated mid September to mid December flight activity.
I had 125.807 HON miles in that period.

Under the new system I would have received 57.300 Miles for these tickets. 55% less!
boy, oh boy.

CyBeR

Yes, but I don't know which of those fees is and is't carrier-imposed (since it doesn't specify the codes) so I had to guess. I guessed it would be either the €10 or the €23 one so I just went with the average.

christianj

So what the heck in this is carrier-imposed that would be included in the overall Euro amount that I would earn points on for this Business Class P Fare Booking?

Price Calculation

itemPer adultTicket priceUSD 1,384.00
Taxes and carrier imposed feesUSD 1,138.81

International/Domestic SurchargeUSD 976.00
Customs User FeeUSD 5.50
Transportation TaxUSD 18.00
Transportation TaxUSD 18.00
APHIS User FeeUSD 3.96
Immigration User FeeUSD 7.00
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service FeeUSD 5.60
Air Transport TaxUSD 49.51
German Aviation Security Charge (potentially refundable if transfer and no additional security check by Federal Police in FRA)USD 11.27
German airport passenger service chargeUSD 39.47
Passenger Facility ChargeUSD 4.50

Total priceUSD 2,522.81


We are going to need a PHD to figure this crap out moving forward!

lefrid

Everyone is scrambling now to make calculations.
Overall the transition is less of a big bang than the FB one which seemed well prepared and really profound.
Here we will be eaten in chunks. Maybe the two year validity period is too big to swallow marketingwise and ITwise for now.
The real threat is still the dynamic pricing which "could" have an slight advantage if all seats were available for redemption like new FB.
Wait and see for now and let's lower our balances (better now with online bookings of star partners). The History tells us that the earn and burn is the best solution.

lefrid

lefrid

Charge, tax, fees are your enemies.
It is the only time I have seen our most hated letters (YQ) regain a bit of sympathy...

worldclubber

"Only" the USD 976 are carrier-imposed.

For long-haul the other fees are only a small fraction (1138.81-976.00), but for short-haul they can make up more than 50 percent of a cheap ticket in economy.