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Old Oct 12, 17, 11:19 am   #1
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LO flight now operated by 0B (Blue Air)

My LO flight is now operated by this LCC from Romania. I have called up and asked to be moved to a LO service but told “this is a codeshare” (no it’s not) and you “pay for the flight not the aircraft”. OLCI won’t be available because it’s not compatible, apparently.

I feel there may be a legal right to have my ticket cancelled free of charge or moved to a LO operated service. A bit like the JOTA swaps for BA or the JetTime wetleases where BA reaccomed pax who didn’t want to fly with them, I presume that was a matter of law than the generosity of Sñr Cruz’s heart.

I am am willing to push hard to get this rebooked including speaking with the local station, but I want to be sure I have such a right before going off on one...
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Old Oct 12, 17, 11:53 am   #2
  
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I noticed this a couple of weeks ago when I was in WAW I saw a Blueair pull up.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/yr-bml it was this bird, which I see it continues to operate (wetlease I guess for LO)
Same I've see with Carpatair and there is another thread on JFK-WAW being operated by Prestige airlines
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/1865654-lot-wet-lease-772-jfk-route.html

I suspect you won't have much recourse, unfortunately (they'll take you from A to B)
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Old Oct 12, 17, 3:14 pm   #3
  
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This is a wet-lease. The crew is mixed LO/0B and standard LO services are followed. OLCI is not available in some airports and it does not depend on aircraft type or operating carrier.

Quote:
I feel there may be a legal right to have my ticket cancelled free of charge or moved to a LO operated service.
No.

Does the flight operate with the same hours and flight time? Yes.

Do you get the same service as on LO metal? Yes.

Does the 0B 737-800 have a slightly worse seating? Than the retrofitted LO 734s or the post-China Southern LO 738s? - marginally, yes. Than ex-LOT Charters 737s just a few months ago? Nope.

So, what exactly is your problem here?
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Old Oct 12, 17, 3:19 pm   #4
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Originally Posted by marcoos View Post
This is a wet-lease. The crew is mixed LO/0B and standard LO services are followed. OLCI is not available in some airports and it does not depend on aircraft type or operating carrier.



No.

Does the flight operate with the same hours and flight time? Yes.

Do you get the same service as on LO metal? Yes.

Does the 0B 737-800 have a slightly worse seating? Than the retrofitted LO 734s or the post-China Southern LO 738s? - marginally, yes. Than ex-LOT Charters 737s just a few months ago? Nope.

So, what exactly is your problem here?
I know LO systems very well to know where OLCI works or doesn’t.

I paid for a LO flight. Not a Romanian carrier. If it crashes, who do we deal with? LOT or Blue Air?
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Old Oct 12, 17, 3:32 pm   #5
  
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With LOT.
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Old Oct 12, 17, 3:43 pm   #6
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugolover View Post
If it crashes, who do we deal with? LOT or Blue Air?
A bit melodramatic, aren't we?

Wetleases are a normal part or airline business. AB flies for EW. EW flies for OS. OS flies for LH. Wamos flies all over the place. Travel Service flies for OK and OK fly for them. Deal with it, or get fully refundable tickets so you can cancel at your convenience.
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Old Oct 12, 17, 4:19 pm   #7
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk View Post
A bit melodramatic, aren't we?

Wetleases are a normal part or airline business. AB flies for EW. EW flies for OS. OS flies for LH. Wamos flies all over the place. Travel Service flies for OK and OK fly for them. Deal with it, or get fully refundable tickets so you can cancel at your convenience.
I know what wetleasing but regrettably some staff in the LOT contact centre do not.

Thats all fine if those are the operating carriers when you book, but how on earth is the contract not affected if the operating carrier changes as in my case? That’s clearly a performance issue. The operating carrier is part and parcel to the contract.
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Old Oct 12, 17, 10:03 pm   #8
  
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The same way it doesn't change if the type changes.
I like the Embraers. What if the airline decides to switch for an Airbus?
As long as I'll get the same level of service, which in this case you will, there is no basis of complaint.
(by the way, when I flew on that OS wet lease on LH flight, the service was OS. Should I have demanded compensation?)
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Old Oct 13, 17, 12:07 am   #9
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EU regulation 2111/2005 has some language on that, customers can use that to switch to another flight.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 12:22 am   #10
  
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To answer your question about legal rights: you can only request a refund/change where the new carrier is on the EU blacklist.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 2:40 am   #11
  
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FWIW, I would be delighted to experience a flight on Blue Air. Have never flown with them, but have taken a number of flights with LOT.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
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Old Oct 13, 17, 3:30 am   #12
  
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Blue Air doesn't have a hugely reassuring record, I read some scary things about them (but can't remember where, so can't provide a link). Like the OP, I would seek to avoid them and I don't think the OP is being melodramatic.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 4:46 am   #13
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0B's B734 had some pressurization issues this summer: http://avherald.com/h?search_term=bl...x=0&search.y=0
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Old Oct 13, 17, 7:02 am   #14
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I was looking into this last night because its actually quite interesting. It seems the (British) CAA has some specific rules that requires the UK AOC holder to be jointly liable along with the AOC of the Member carrier they are chartering.

It's not clear if the Polish regular has such a rule, the aircraft flies under a Romanian AOC. If you look at what happened with virtual carrier Manx2, the aircraft which crashed flew under a Spanish AOC and the investigation highlighted that the CAA did not feel there was significant oversight to their operations because they are prohibited from carrying out their higher standard of checks because that is the remit of the Spanish regulator.

The Regulation which oliver2002 posted notes that it defers to the law of the contracting parties, I think its very reasonable to consider a change of operating carrier as an issue of non-performance but thats dependent on Polish law. And of course, Poland has a strong and stable legal system, to rival England- thanks to the huge reforms of PiS .

EC261/2004 clearly states that the obligations from the Regulation rest with the Operating Carrier, in this case 0B not LO. This appears to be different when a carrier is given dispensation by the regulating authority to arrange a lease with a third country, not valid here.

And by the way, any notions I am overdramatic cos the plane might crash, please, get real, the laws and regulations exist for a reason and its why flying is incredibly safe.

A quick search on avherald shows a significant number of issues vs that of LO, including a runway overrun in CLJ, the fault of the crew.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 7:14 am   #15
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugolover View Post
And by the way, any notions I am overdramatic cos the plane might crash, please, get real, the laws and regulations exist for a reason and its why flying is incredibly safe.
So are you implying this is change is in violation of regulations or safety laws?
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