LO flight now operated by 0B (Blue Air)
#1
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LO flight now operated by 0B (Blue Air)
My LO flight is now operated by this LCC from Romania. I have called up and asked to be moved to a LO service but told “this is a codeshare” (no it’s not) and you “pay for the flight not the aircraft”. OLCI won’t be available because it’s not compatible, apparently.
I feel there may be a legal right to have my ticket cancelled free of charge or moved to a LO operated service. A bit like the JOTA swaps for BA or the JetTime wetleases where BA reaccomed pax who didn’t want to fly with them, I presume that was a matter of law than the generosity of Sñr Cruz’s heart.
I am am willing to push hard to get this rebooked including speaking with the local station, but I want to be sure I have such a right before going off on one...
I feel there may be a legal right to have my ticket cancelled free of charge or moved to a LO operated service. A bit like the JOTA swaps for BA or the JetTime wetleases where BA reaccomed pax who didn’t want to fly with them, I presume that was a matter of law than the generosity of Sñr Cruz’s heart.
I am am willing to push hard to get this rebooked including speaking with the local station, but I want to be sure I have such a right before going off on one...
#2
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,856
I noticed this a couple of weeks ago when I was in WAW I saw a Blueair pull up.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/yr-bml it was this bird, which I see it continues to operate (wetlease I guess for LO)
Same I've see with Carpatair and there is another thread on JFK-WAW being operated by Prestige airlines
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/1865654-lot-wet-lease-772-jfk-route.html
I suspect you won't have much recourse, unfortunately (they'll take you from A to B)
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/yr-bml it was this bird, which I see it continues to operate (wetlease I guess for LO)
Same I've see with Carpatair and there is another thread on JFK-WAW being operated by Prestige airlines
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/1865654-lot-wet-lease-772-jfk-route.html
I suspect you won't have much recourse, unfortunately (they'll take you from A to B)
#3
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Wrocław, Poland
Programs: SK *S, LH *S; Accor ALL Gold
Posts: 231
This is a wet-lease. The crew is mixed LO/0B and standard LO services are followed. OLCI is not available in some airports and it does not depend on aircraft type or operating carrier.
No.
Does the flight operate with the same hours and flight time? Yes.
Do you get the same service as on LO metal? Yes.
Does the 0B 737-800 have a slightly worse seating? Than the retrofitted LO 734s or the post-China Southern LO 738s? - marginally, yes. Than ex-LOT Charters 737s just a few months ago? Nope.
So, what exactly is your problem here?
I feel there may be a legal right to have my ticket cancelled free of charge or moved to a LO operated service.
Does the flight operate with the same hours and flight time? Yes.
Do you get the same service as on LO metal? Yes.
Does the 0B 737-800 have a slightly worse seating? Than the retrofitted LO 734s or the post-China Southern LO 738s? - marginally, yes. Than ex-LOT Charters 737s just a few months ago? Nope.
So, what exactly is your problem here?
#4
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This is a wet-lease. The crew is mixed LO/0B and standard LO services are followed. OLCI is not available in some airports and it does not depend on aircraft type or operating carrier.
No.
Does the flight operate with the same hours and flight time? Yes.
Do you get the same service as on LO metal? Yes.
Does the 0B 737-800 have a slightly worse seating? Than the retrofitted LO 734s or the post-China Southern LO 738s? - marginally, yes. Than ex-LOT Charters 737s just a few months ago? Nope.
So, what exactly is your problem here?
No.
Does the flight operate with the same hours and flight time? Yes.
Do you get the same service as on LO metal? Yes.
Does the 0B 737-800 have a slightly worse seating? Than the retrofitted LO 734s or the post-China Southern LO 738s? - marginally, yes. Than ex-LOT Charters 737s just a few months ago? Nope.
So, what exactly is your problem here?
I paid for a LO flight. Not a Romanian carrier. If it crashes, who do we deal with? LOT or Blue Air?
#6
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,051
A bit melodramatic, aren't we?
Wetleases are a normal part or airline business. AB flies for EW. EW flies for OS. OS flies for LH. Wamos flies all over the place. Travel Service flies for OK and OK fly for them. Deal with it, or get fully refundable tickets so you can cancel at your convenience.
Wetleases are a normal part or airline business. AB flies for EW. EW flies for OS. OS flies for LH. Wamos flies all over the place. Travel Service flies for OK and OK fly for them. Deal with it, or get fully refundable tickets so you can cancel at your convenience.
#7
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A bit melodramatic, aren't we?
Wetleases are a normal part or airline business. AB flies for EW. EW flies for OS. OS flies for LH. Wamos flies all over the place. Travel Service flies for OK and OK fly for them. Deal with it, or get fully refundable tickets so you can cancel at your convenience.
Wetleases are a normal part or airline business. AB flies for EW. EW flies for OS. OS flies for LH. Wamos flies all over the place. Travel Service flies for OK and OK fly for them. Deal with it, or get fully refundable tickets so you can cancel at your convenience.
Thats all fine if those are the operating carriers when you book, but how on earth is the contract not affected if the operating carrier changes as in my case? That’s clearly a performance issue. The operating carrier is part and parcel to the contract.
#8
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,051
The same way it doesn't change if the type changes.
I like the Embraers. What if the airline decides to switch for an Airbus?
As long as I'll get the same level of service, which in this case you will, there is no basis of complaint.
(by the way, when I flew on that OS wet lease on LH flight, the service was OS. Should I have demanded compensation?)
I like the Embraers. What if the airline decides to switch for an Airbus?
As long as I'll get the same level of service, which in this case you will, there is no basis of complaint.
(by the way, when I flew on that OS wet lease on LH flight, the service was OS. Should I have demanded compensation?)
#12
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Blue Air doesn't have a hugely reassuring record, I read some scary things about them (but can't remember where, so can't provide a link). Like the OP, I would seek to avoid them and I don't think the OP is being melodramatic.
#13
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
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0B's B734 had some pressurization issues this summer: http://avherald.com/h?search_term=bl...x=0&search.y=0
#14
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I was looking into this last night because its actually quite interesting. It seems the (British) CAA has some specific rules that requires the UK AOC holder to be jointly liable along with the AOC of the Member carrier they are chartering.
It's not clear if the Polish regular has such a rule, the aircraft flies under a Romanian AOC. If you look at what happened with virtual carrier Manx2, the aircraft which crashed flew under a Spanish AOC and the investigation highlighted that the CAA did not feel there was significant oversight to their operations because they are prohibited from carrying out their higher standard of checks because that is the remit of the Spanish regulator.
The Regulation which oliver2002 posted notes that it defers to the law of the contracting parties, I think its very reasonable to consider a change of operating carrier as an issue of non-performance but thats dependent on Polish law. And of course, Poland has a strong and stable legal system, to rival England- thanks to the huge reforms of PiS .
EC261/2004 clearly states that the obligations from the Regulation rest with the Operating Carrier, in this case 0B not LO. This appears to be different when a carrier is given dispensation by the regulating authority to arrange a lease with a third country, not valid here.
And by the way, any notions I am overdramatic cos the plane might crash, please, get real, the laws and regulations exist for a reason and its why flying is incredibly safe.
A quick search on avherald shows a significant number of issues vs that of LO, including a runway overrun in CLJ, the fault of the crew.
It's not clear if the Polish regular has such a rule, the aircraft flies under a Romanian AOC. If you look at what happened with virtual carrier Manx2, the aircraft which crashed flew under a Spanish AOC and the investigation highlighted that the CAA did not feel there was significant oversight to their operations because they are prohibited from carrying out their higher standard of checks because that is the remit of the Spanish regulator.
The Regulation which oliver2002 posted notes that it defers to the law of the contracting parties, I think its very reasonable to consider a change of operating carrier as an issue of non-performance but thats dependent on Polish law. And of course, Poland has a strong and stable legal system, to rival England- thanks to the huge reforms of PiS .
EC261/2004 clearly states that the obligations from the Regulation rest with the Operating Carrier, in this case 0B not LO. This appears to be different when a carrier is given dispensation by the regulating authority to arrange a lease with a third country, not valid here.
And by the way, any notions I am overdramatic cos the plane might crash, please, get real, the laws and regulations exist for a reason and its why flying is incredibly safe.
A quick search on avherald shows a significant number of issues vs that of LO, including a runway overrun in CLJ, the fault of the crew.
#15
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859