FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Brussels, LOT and Other Partners | Miles & More (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more-495/)
-   -   Upgrade from P and Z to First coming (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/1871481-upgrade-p-z-first-coming.html)

shipsmail Oct 11, 17 9:22 am

Upgrade from P and Z to First coming
 
It will come back soon. Same procedure like LX. I was told by LH without mentioning a specific date.

NewbieRunner Oct 11, 17 9:59 am

That would be great. I'll remember where I heard it first if when it happens!

chris63 Oct 11, 17 10:51 am


Originally Posted by shipsmail (Post 28919637)
It will come back soon. Same procedure like LX. I was told by LH without mentioning a specific date.

Overdue !
Some of these P for punishment fares which earn same as Y miles are far from cheap ! That you can also not upgrade them with Evouchers is :td:

Good for LX they never went down this customer bashing route ^

athome Oct 11, 17 12:00 pm

Why should LH do this?
1. F is, at least on all the flights I fly F (mainly to/from US), always full.
2. Number of flights / city pairs having F is going to be reduced (A340-600 replacement with A350, most of A330 getting rid of F).

From an LH point of view there would not be any economical sense to do so.

I assume it's more a dream, than reality.

Grog Oct 11, 17 12:36 pm


Originally Posted by athome (Post 28920255)
Why should LH do this?
...
From an LH point of view there would not be any economical sense to do so.

I assume it's more a dream, than reality.

I can see it making sense in LH's world exactly because it won't be usable by flyers. Think about it. No F availability (because of no existence of F or simply because of no availability), then no negative economic impact. An unreachable carrot on the end of a stick. In fact, LH has retained a sucker who might have booked with a different airline, if it weren't for a contrivance.

shipsmail Oct 12, 17 2:14 am


Originally Posted by athome (Post 28920255)
Why should LH do this?
1. F is, at least on all the flights I fly F (mainly to/from US), always full.
2. Number of flights / city pairs having F is going to be reduced (A340-600 replacement with A350, most of A330 getting rid of F).

From an LH point of view there would not be any economical sense to do so.

I assume it's more a dream, than reality.

This dream will come true. It was promised by C. Spohr himself on a LH event recently.

vantage03 Oct 12, 17 4:04 am

Doesn't affect me directly but this is great news for most... I think restrictive premium fares as a concept are nonsense and take away from the premium experience...

Next let's lose non-refundable First Class fares... sure, charge the cancellation fee, but there's nothing First Class about a fare which can't be changed.

MultiFlyer Oct 13, 17 4:59 am


Originally Posted by shipsmail (Post 28922958)
This dream will come true. It was promised by C. Spohr himself on a LH event recently.

Which event?
Did you attend the event?

shipsmail Oct 14, 17 9:33 am


Originally Posted by MultiFlyer (Post 28927449)
Which event?
Did you attend the event?

LH event in DUS, I have attended myself.

worldclubber Oct 14, 17 12:06 pm


Originally Posted by shipsmail (Post 28931610)
LH event in DUS, I have attended myself.

Any word on when? Still have eVouchers to burn...

cfischer Oct 15, 17 5:26 pm

hmmm. Interesting. Not sure this makes sense though. With the upcoming huge F capacity reductions ex-FRA it'll be tough enough to get upgrades from a C-class fare ... not sure they will be a lot of joy from P/Z.

thbe Oct 16, 17 4:00 am

It never made sense to exclude P and Z from upgrades, so it's the right decision.

To allow upgrades from P and Z in general doesn't mean that there will be availability. But there are enough routes, where the passenger load factor in F is low.

worldclubber Oct 16, 17 4:11 am


Originally Posted by thbe (Post 28937450)
But there are enough routes, where the passenger load factor in F is low.

Totally agree that there should be upgrades vom P/Z to F, but where do you see low load factors? I have flown LH F on 4 different routes (RT) this year and the cabins were always at least 4/8, usually more. West coast USA 7/8 or 8/8.

thbe Oct 16, 17 9:49 am


Originally Posted by worldclubber (Post 28937464)
Totally agree that there should be upgrades vom P/Z to F, but where do you see low load factors? I have flown LH F on 4 different routes (RT) this year and the cabins were always at least 4/8, usually more. West coast USA 7/8 or 8/8.

Yes, SFO and LAX are often full or close to be full. But even there awards are available. And if there's availability for awards, it should also be possible to get an upgrade.

I.e. HND and BKK have quite low load factors in F.

chris63 Oct 16, 17 10:19 am


Originally Posted by worldclubber (Post 28937464)
Totally agree that there should be upgrades vom P/Z to F, but where do you see low load factors? I have flown LH F on 4 different routes (RT) this year and the cabins were always at least 4/8, usually more. West coast USA 7/8 or 8/8.

4/8 on some routes & you don’t think that warrants a change ?
Try FRA-EZE- FRA I was able to get this on Lifemiles & therefore ahead of LH SEN or HON on a P or Z ticket wanting to upgrade.

LH need to take care of their elites first irrespective of booking class as LX have always done 👍

chris63 Oct 16, 17 10:29 am


Originally Posted by vantage03 (Post 28923123)

Next let's lose non-refundable First Class fares... sure, charge the cancellation fee, but there's nothing First Class about a fare which can't be changed.

Agree

The current A fare ex MAN or BHX to SIN is refundable at 418GBP & changeable

more4less Oct 16, 17 12:46 pm


Originally Posted by chris63 (Post 28938422)
Agree

The current A fare ex MAN or BHX to SIN is refundable at 418GBP & changeable

The last 2 companion tickets in F that I have bought, ex WAW and ex MXP, were neither refundable nor changeable.

worldclubber Oct 17, 17 1:09 am


Originally Posted by chris63 (Post 28938380)
4/8 on some routes & you don’t think that warrants a change ?
Try FRA-EZE- FRA I was able to get this on Lifemiles & therefore ahead of LH SEN or HON on a P or Z ticket wanting to upgrade.

LH need to take care of their elites first irrespective of booking class as LX have always done 👍

Exactly, they should allow upgrades from P and Z. But not because of low load factors, rather because they value us. ^

cbourl Oct 17, 17 3:04 am


Originally Posted by worldclubber (Post 28937464)
Totally agree that there should be upgrades vom P/Z to F, but where do you see low load factors? I have flown LH F on 4 different routes (RT) this year and the cabins were always at least 4/8, usually more. West coast USA 7/8 or 8/8.

Everytime in LX and LH F to/from JFK past few years alone or maybe 1 or 2 others in F SIN from FRA on the otherhand Fu;;

worldclubber Oct 17, 17 3:07 am


Originally Posted by cbourl (Post 28941660)
Everytime in LX and LH F to/from JFK past few years alone or maybe 1 or 2 others in F SIN from FRA on the otherhand Fu;;

Yeah, but who would waste an upgrade on the short hop to NYC? ;)

cbourl Oct 17, 17 3:10 am

I would! Also for to/ from HKG LX/LH invariably almost half full ZRH/MUC/FRA Don't bother with BKK its like SIN From SFO-ZRH is OK if I wanna earn more points from AUSTRALIA to TLV, but its usually fully of those crass twenty something IT s;aves, and with the demise of Global First to/from Australia my 6 GPUs are used on LH!!!!!! Why bother with 2 Evouchers except for LX when you can use a free Global on LH!!

oliver2002 Oct 17, 17 7:47 am

I seriously doubt LH will allow UA MP GPUs to be used for P/Z fares, the plans seem to be a system similar to LX allowing M&M members to upgrade from P/Z using evouchers or a higher mileage rate.

purch Oct 17, 17 8:04 am


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 28942252)
I seriously doubt LH will allow UA MP GPUs to be used for P/Z fares, the plans seem to be a system similar to LX allowing M&M members to upgrade from P/Z using evouchers or a higher mileage rate.

My usual route is FRA-JNB. Currently a biz to F upgrade is 50k iirc. A one way award is only 85k, so where would this fit in? It’s hard to see how it would be worth paying 65k or 70k when one could have an outright award for only a bit more. Unless of course a devaluation is on the cards... or maybe my particular region would just be a bad use for this if it ever comes to fruition.

thbe Oct 17, 17 8:05 am


Originally Posted by worldclubber (Post 28941395)
Exactly, they should allow upgrades from P and Z. But not because of low load factors, rather because they value us. ^

Even 4/8 is a low load factor for an airline with a load factor of about 82%.

Lack Oct 17, 17 8:40 am


Originally Posted by purch (Post 28942309)
It’s hard to see how it would be worth paying 65k or 70k when one could have an outright award for only a bit more.

Not really that hard. OPM flyers.

purch Oct 17, 17 9:28 am


Originally Posted by Lack (Post 28942408)
Not really that hard. OPM flyers.

Admittedly I do tend to forget that there are people with tons of miles to burn, and as you say OPM fliers, who probably wouldn’t care much about a few thousand extra miles.

But is there a big subset of these which are regularly flying in P/Z? I would have thought those types of people are generally flying C, D, J already, so this enhancement wouldn’t really be of interest to them.

oliver2002 Oct 17, 17 10:00 am


Originally Posted by purch (Post 28942309)
My usual route is FRA-JNB. Currently a biz to F upgrade is 50k iirc. A one way award is only 85k, so where would this fit in? It’s hard to see how it would be worth paying 65k or 70k when one could have an outright award for only a bit more. Unless of course a devaluation is on the cards... or maybe my particular region would just be a bad use for this if it ever comes to fruition.

LX seems to pull it off... I think the main charm is the possibility to use evouchers on P/Z.

NewbieRunner Oct 17, 17 10:42 am


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 28942724)
LX seems to pull it off... I think the main charm is the possibility to use evouchers on P/Z.

Exactly! The best use of eVouchers at present is either LX P/Z to F or LH Y+ to C. The ability to upgrade LH P/Z to F will be very welcome.

worldclubber Oct 17, 17 11:01 am


Originally Posted by thbe (Post 28942312)
Even 4/8 is a low load factor for an airline with a load factor of about 82%.

Not necessarily. But yes, there would be room for some awards on 4/8 flights.

Sometimes it's just unpredictable: Not too long ago, I wanted to book a companion award MUC-LAX and was initially told I wouldn't be able to get 2 seats, as revenue management predicts to sell 7 F-seats on that route that day. Booked two seats in J instead and after a while the waitlist for two seats in F cleared. The MUC-LAX-flight ended up being 3/8, which it hardly ever seems to be (most of my other experiences were 7/8 or 8/8). With so few seats available in total, it is hard to always make the right predictions or generalize from one-time experiences.

Lack Oct 17, 17 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by purch (Post 28942593)
But is there a big subset of these which are regularly flying in P/Z? I would have thought those types of people are generally flying C, D, J already, so this enhancement wouldn’t really be of interest to them.

Given what an invasive nature of the P fare species, I'd guess there's quite a lot of people 'trapped' in those by their corporate travel agents.

f4freeJunior Oct 17, 17 3:20 pm

On my next LX179 (SIN) I am currently booked in business (J!) so I hoped that my upgrade would clear faster. Flight is in about 20 days and I am on the WL as there is only one seat left for sale F1. I understand they try to sell it but on the other hand a J fare is also not really cheap so I would appreciate if it clears 😁.

cbourl Oct 17, 17 6:24 pm


Originally Posted by purch (Post 28942593)
Admittedly I do tend to forget that there are people with tons of miles to burn, and as you say OPM fliers, who probably wouldn’t care much about a few thousand extra miles.

But is there a big subset of these which are regularly flying in P/Z? I would have thought those types of people are generally flying C, D, J already, so this enhancement wouldn’t really be of interest to them.

Absolutely Im in C or D (never in P or Z except intra-eu) so that's where I use my free Globals rather than 2 Evouchers The Evouchers I keep for upgrades on LX to F since they are usually confirmed instantly by the LX Senator line when F>=4

worldclubber Oct 18, 17 12:57 am

Unfortunately, plans at LH for upgrades from P/Z do not seem to be very concrete yet. :(

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28941932-post1711.html

f4freeJunior Oct 19, 17 5:08 am


Originally Posted by f4freeJunior (Post 28944121)
On my next LX179 (SIN) I am currently booked in business (J!) so I hoped that my upgrade would clear faster. Flight is in about 20 days and I am on the WL as there is only one seat left for sale F1. I understand they try to sell it but on the other hand a J fare is also not really cheap so I would appreciate if it clears 😁.

UPDATE: Meanwhile the upgrade has cleared :)
It was F1J5C0 when it cleared. I guess some pax cancelled and then the upgrade confirmed. Now F1J8C0. Assume the bc J helped a bit ;)?

tht Jan 8, 18 1:49 pm


Originally Posted by shipsmail (Post 28919637)
It will come back soon. Same procedure like LX. I was told by LH without mentioning a specific date.

Any update on this? will it also apply to UA GPU's?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:31 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.